It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Quintessential Pistol for SHTF

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 11:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Chad_Thomas89
 


Actually, if you're only going to have one firearm, a pistol probably is the most ideal because it can be concealed. Staying in your home it may not make a difference, but if you have to be on the move, a long arm will likely draw unwanted attention. Stick with a quality brand and buy what you can afford. Remember, you need to buy ammo too and a fair amount of it. Personally, I would choose something in 9mm. It is the cheapest caliber that has decent stopping power. I realize .40 and .45 have better knockdown abilities, but I can usually find 9mm for about half the cost of the larger calibers and shot placement is what really matters, not just the size of the hole. I like revolvers, but the higher magazine capacities of most pistols make the far more attractive as a defensive arm. Also, you're going to want to be able to shoot at least 100 rounds when you go to the range and that can take only a matter minutes. You don't want to loose interest because you can't afford to be buying ammo all the time and you can see how ammo costs can add up really fast especially if you plan to keep a decent cache at home - the number I seem to keep reading is 500 rounds per firearm. That's ten boxes for most handgun calibers. So, I haven't mentioned even one actual firearm model, but I feel like weighing costs of ownership can often be confused with the initial purchase price, which could be counterproductive for people on a tight budget, like myself.




posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 12:06 AM
link   
Ruger Mark 2 or Mark 3.

The .22LR is the most versatile round, you can carry about 1000 rounds in the space/weight of 500 .357 or .38 or 9mm or .40 caliber. Anything you want to eat can be taken with a .22LR in North America, especially east of the Mississippi.

If your plans involve having to gunslinging it out against others in order to survive, then you plans need a revision. Even the world's best marksmen won't last forever in gun battles. Biggest key to survival is knowing your limitations and working your strengths efficiently. Best thing to do is work on your weaknesses so that they become minimal.

As for spending big money on a gun, plenty of some of the best guns in the world will be for free next to the people that could not plan a..



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 12:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Ruger Mark 2 or Mark 3.

The .22LR is the most versatile round, you can carry about 1000 rounds in the space/weight of 500 .357 or .38 or 9mm or .40 caliber. Anything you want to eat can be taken with a .22LR in North America, especially east of the Mississippi.

If your plans involve having to gunslinging it out against others in order to survive, then you plans need a revision. Even the world's best marksmen won't last forever in gun battles. Biggest key to survival is knowing your limitations and working your strengths efficiently. Best thing to do is work on your weaknesses so that they become minimal.

As for spending big money on a gun, plenty of some of the best guns in the world will be for free next to the people that could not plan a..


Ahabstar I thought about that a lot, if and chances would be very small, but what if you had to use it in self defense ..how long do you give a guy to bleed out. Those are some small holes yes and a .22 projectile does do some weird things in body mass BUT ...



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 12:35 AM
link   
reply to post by rebellender
 


One of the realities of the situation is that the .22LR is not a "one shot kill" round. Guess what? Neither is the .50, yes that is right...neither is the .50. Sure it makes a heck of a hole, and yes if you hit, they will eventually bleed out sans medical attention.

But unlike in movies and video, just being hit with a round in center body mass does not equal an instant kill. In the self defense argument, odds are that the recipient will be able to make a few shots of their own. Some may be lucky and others may be well placed. But odds are that you will get yours as well.

So why the Ruger Mark 2 or Mark 3? Because it is a low end (price-wise) target pistol. I admit I suck shooting a pistol, but not with the Mark 2. Very accurate, in fact scary accurate in inexperienced hands would be a better description. Unloading 7 rounds (I never do the one in the pipe) in a straight 1.5 inch line at 50 feet as fast as I could pull my finger is not something you are going to get from larger calibers. Keep in mind, I freely admit that I suck with pistols.

Aimed shots at distance, which is not part of the self-defense situation you described, is where they really shine. And if you go for sub-sonic rounds...the situation becomes even more interesting. But as I said, gunslinging as means of survival is the worst plan out there...living by the sword and dying by the sword and all that.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 12:38 AM
link   
My personal sidearm of choice is a PK229 Sig in .40 Cal. The 40 has great stopping power, about 5 ft/lbs less than a .45 acp in the right load. It is extremely accurate, easy to maintain and dependable in all environments. This was my issued sidearm in the Navy and during my deployments to Iraq and Afghan I never had an issue with jams or misfires regardless of how long I had been worming through the sand. The glock 27 is a good gun as well, I am just biased to the Sig, more money but top end quality.

Whatever brand, I would definately go with the .40, good all around round and if you put 2 in center mass even the most drug crazed individual will be well on their way to have a face to face with their maker.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 01:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by rebellender
 


One of the realities of the situation is that the .22LR is not a "one shot kill" round. Guess what? Neither is the .50, yes that is right...neither is the .50. Sure it makes a heck of a hole, and yes if you hit, they will eventually bleed out sans medical attention.

But unlike in movies and video, just being hit with a round in center body mass does not equal an instant kill. In the self defense argument, odds are that the recipient will be able to make a few shots of their own. Some may be lucky and others may be well placed. But odds are that you will get yours as well.

So why the Ruger Mark 2 or Mark 3? Because it is a low end (price-wise) target pistol. I admit I suck shooting a pistol, but not with the Mark 2. Very accurate, in fact scary accurate in inexperienced hands would be a better description. Unloading 7 rounds (I never do the one in the pipe) in a straight 1.5 inch line at 50 feet as fast as I could pull my finger is not something you are going to get from larger calibers. Keep in mind, I freely admit that I suck with pistols.

Aimed shots at distance, which is not part of the self-defense situation you described, is where they really shine. And if you go for sub-sonic rounds...the situation becomes even more interesting. But as I said, gunslinging as means of survival is the worst plan out there...living by the sword and dying by the sword and all that.


Not trying to argue with you here, just pointing out some flaws in your statement from a tactical POV. First of all the end goal in a self defense situation is not necessarily to get a kill, but will always be immobilization of your target. Your chances of achieving that with a .22lr in less than 4 shots are slim unless you are either highly proficient or manage to squeeze off a lucky round or 2 to either the center of the . or a vital center mass area.

However with a larger caliber gun your odds increase exponentially due to the higher force upon entering the mass of your target. Any high quality gun is accurate as long as the shooter is accurate, 95% of the time inaccuracy is a.result of the shooter. High caliber handguns are every bit as accurate as small caliber guns even at distance. With my Sig .40 I can shoot a .5 MoA at 20 meters consistently and with it you will need only half of the rounds to make target versus a .22 in a self defense situation.

While I agree with you about the live by the sword statement, when you are forced to use the sword the odds are in your favor when you have the bigger sword. So if you are forced to defend yourself its better to have the edge, especially if you are an inexperienced shooter. However if you are having to expend energy on defending yourself then you just decreased your odds of survival exponentially.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 07:15 AM
link   
reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Realities of a shootout
I think this scenario came to both our minds



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 07:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Nucleardiver
 


I will agree that a gun is nothing more than a hole punch and in close quarters, higher calibers punch larger holes especially in exit wounds. But the question at hand is Quintessential Pistol for SHTF in the Survival forum.

For the long term, hunting game is the essential element here. Rabbits squirrels taken with a .22 have lots more nutritional value than ones taken with larger calibers.
For personal defense, I would like to say the Ruger Blackhawk revolver simply because you can feed it .38, .357 or 9mm (due to the extra cylinder) which makes for a good situation given the number of 9mm out there. Again, I would like to say it but I have not handled that model to give a full endorsement.

In the end, survival is a very fluid situation. Where I live, I have less to worry about from two legged problems than say someone in NYC or other large city. Given my knowledge and experience with survival, I give myself a 25-30% chance in a total EOTWAWKI meltdown of society if I have to be a solo survivor. Why so low? Nature and bad luck are harsh mistresses. Being laid up from a broken bone or even a sprained ankle makes life that much harder when you are alone. Having to drop and go in say November means a long time before wild edibles start popping up. And an even longer time before you can plant and harvest a garden.

Best bet is always small groups in a situation because you as a group are better able to roll with the punches that mother nature can throw at you.

Again, for all purpose use in survival, my vote is the .22LR. And I have been very happy with the Mark 2 for performance and dependability. I only wish I could find a revolver that could be on par with it. Again, that is pistols. Personally I have both a Henry lever action and the Henry AR-7 survival rifle. Tough to say which is better has they both have their good and bad points. But the level action has a slight edge in my opinion.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 02:36 PM
link   
Edit: Just thinking. You should have a shotgun first before you spring for a pistol. Much better all around defense weapon.

Special anti-zombie ammo

Kawika's special sailboat shotgun


Lightweight, high velocity, high performance shotshells specially designed for zombies
Loaded with hard-hitting OO buckshot
Certified Zombie Ammunition
Be ready for the impending zombie apocalypse with Hornady Zombie Max Certified Zombie Shotgun Ammunition. This revolutionary new ammo is the only ammunition specifically designed to re-kill the shuffling legions of flesh-eating undead that could arise on any given day. Built with the same commitment to quality for which Hornady is so well known, these rounds feature the hard-hitting OO buckshot you'll want if you ever find yourself [Read More]


Don't want to get in a big argument here, I like the 1911 45 auto, but that is just because that is what we used to use in the old Navy. Now they use the 9mm, which seems like a too small caliber. History is that the 45 was developed for increased stopping power in case of an enemy on drugs, jungle fighting.

But, if you are going with a small caliber like the 22 or 9 mm, consider one of the stainless steel, take apart for storage, survival rifles. Great for emergency hunting. Maybe only good for defense.

Survival Rifles


For hiking, backpacking, canoeing, or even flying over remote areas for example, or situations where you dont actually intend to use the rifle except in an emergency, smaller and lighter is usually better. A lot of people choose to carry a handgun, which is ok for personal protection, but in most cases not a very good choice as a survival weapon. Chances are, if you have to use this weapon in this scenario, you will be trying to feed yourself. If you have to hit a squirrel or other small game from any sort of distance, you need the accuracy that only a rifle can provide. The best choice for this situation would be a lightweight compact .22LR caliber rifle. Here are some good choices to fulfill this need:


edit on 8-3-2012 by kawika because: add quote

edit on 8-3-2012 by kawika because: added afterthought

edit on 8-3-2012 by kawika because: add quote



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
You'll get a hundred different answers from a hundred different people on this subject. The first thing Ill say is that the best SHTF gun is not a pistol at all.





I agree & disagree... The best SHTF weapon is one you can carry on your person 24/7. If I could I'd carry a dillon minigun around, but it's not practical and slightly cost prohibitive lol. The reality is this, your life & daily routine won't immediately stop should a situation arise, you'll still have your job to go to, you'll still have daily errands etc... (Depending on the level of social unrest) So, you're going to need something to keep the wolves at bay and protect the flock. A handgun fits that profile, if you think you'll be able to go out in town with an AR strong side muzzle up and not arise alarm with local leo's and the general populace, you're in fantasyland! =)

My pick for a beginner would be a Glock 19, it's easy to learn on (no safety manipulation, no need to adjust
from a da/sa trigger, it's got good capacity @ 15 rounds, its easy to clean and relatively forgiving maintenance wise & with modern +p ammo it has good terminal ballistics)

My advice would be to buy the pistol & a case of practice ammo with similar ballistics to your carry ammo, put a box of carry ammo through the pistol to make sure it feeds reliably, then take an NRA first steps pistol course &I then find a good tactical pistol course and enroll in it.

Now if we're talking a Home Defense weapon, a long gun as a primary would be your best bet with alternating schools of though advocating either a 12ga shotgun or ar platform carbine....that's a discussion for another day!



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Chad_Thomas89
 


To be honest I didn't read all the previous replies. However if you want a pistol that has to work every time and will save your backside when you need it to go with a Sig Sauer P226. Look for the German made ones without the rail. It's not pretty or fashionable, but it gets the job done every time. On top of that it's operation is straight forward and easy to get accustomed to.





posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 01:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Chad_Thomas89
 


So your first hand gun eh? My advice 1911a1 . 45 acp, six parts, easy to use, and easy to care for. The 1911 can be a double action (cock it and lock it) or single action auto ( you have to load it, and the hammer stays back, takes more practice when carrying cause you can't walk around with one in the chamber unless you slowly bring the hammer forward). They make it in a 9mm or .380 too.

OR a good .357 magnum, you have more ammo opertunities because you can fire .38 special or .357 (cheaper range ammo/reduction of recoil) easy to carry and clean. I'd get (if I had the cash) a colt python .357 BUT instead a Colt Cobra .357 or Colt trooper .357 an old Ruger Security is nice but get a 4in barrel so you can HIT a further away target

Also baretta M92f even less parts then the 1911, but go to a gun range find what feels good, ask yourself WHY and for WHAT you need it for. When I buy a gun I ask myself 1 are parts easy to get 2. is ammo cheap 3. can it kill a person/game animal IF you need it to. 4. is ammo abundant in this caliber.

I had a chance to buy a Mauser Broomhandle (a remake from the 1970's not a real WWII) but the 7.63x25 ammo is not easy or cheap sadly I said no, so good luck!

edit on 11-3-2012 by merkej23 because: grammar



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 07:17 AM
link   
My Springfield XDM 9m comes with 19+1 x2 magazines. It is reliable and accurate! I absolutely LOVE MY XDM! For something to conceal, I got a Sig P238. It is perfect for women or those with smaller hands. Conceals easily. Just remember, shot placement is more crucial than anything. I hear so much about Glocks, but let me tell you, unless you have a big hand, it will feel like the grip is too large. I hate Glock grips... Once you choose your weapon, go to the range and shoot shoot shoot!!!!



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 07:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by Domo1
Glock 19 is what I would recommend for a first pistol. Compact enough to carry but large enough to actually grip. Very reliable, decently priced, large capacity, easy to control etc. I still carry mine regularly though I have some fancier pistols I am just more comfortable trusting it.


Or a Glock 17.

But I would imagine a revolver would be more reliable due to less moving parts.



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 01:56 PM
link   
I especially liked the taurus judge and shooting rocks out of a muzzleloader comments, also the .22 guy had promise because I thought he was mentioning that you should get a .22 to practice first with before you learn bad habits, but was talking about placing 7 shots center mass, .22 is not a self defense round, at all. Basically any higher-end modern pistol is a good choice, I would not suggest a 1911 as they typically require alot of maintenance since all the new ones are screwed down super tight and are basically target guns and not for combat whereas the original browning design was a bit loose with the tolerances, manual of arms with SAO is a bit different as well and more complicated . The best choice is one that comfortably fits your hand and you can comfortably control the recoil. I prefer suggesting 9mm as it's typically an easier round to manage, but some people prefer the push of .45. I've always heard of .40 being snappy plus it's not as commonplace as .45 or 9mm. Revolvers are a good choice as the manual of arms is much simpler than an auto. You don't have to rack a slide, or ensure the magazine is fully seated, it's almost literally point and click operation, but has the capacity and size drawbacks. I think the best shtf and home defense weapon would probably be a shotgun.



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 05:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
You'll get a hundred different answers from a hundred different people on this subject. The first thing Ill say is that the best SHTF gun is not a pistol at all.





I agree & disagree... The best SHTF weapon is one you can carry on your person 24/7. If I could I'd carry a dillon minigun around, but it's not practical and slightly cost prohibitive lol. The reality is this, your life & daily routine won't immediately stop should a situation arise, you'll still have your job to go to, you'll still have daily errands etc... (Depending on the level of social unrest) So, you're going to need something to keep the wolves at bay and protect the flock. A handgun fits that profile, if you think you'll be able to go out in town with an AR strong side muzzle up and not arise alarm with local leo's and the general populace, you're in fantasyland! =)

My pick for a beginner would be a Glock 19, it's easy to learn on (no safety manipulation, no need to adjust
from a da/sa trigger, it's got good capacity @ 15 rounds, its easy to clean and relatively forgiving maintenance wise & with modern +p ammo it has good terminal ballistics)

My advice would be to buy the pistol & a case of practice ammo with similar ballistics to your carry ammo, put a box of carry ammo through the pistol to make sure it feeds reliably, then take an NRA first steps pistol course &I then find a good tactical pistol course and enroll in it.

Now if we're talking a Home Defense weapon, a long gun as a primary would be your best bet with alternating schools of though advocating either a 12ga shotgun or ar platform carbine....that's a discussion for another day!


Ill carry my high capacity 12 ga. You carry a glock. Betting I win, if we ever get into a firefight


I do believe in portability, but usefulness ALWAYS comes first.



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 06:15 PM
link   
Well if you usefulness is your game, there's nothing better than S&W .500

How useful is only needing one bullet?



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 11:44 PM
link   
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


lol, I've got a 590a1 9 shot (51668) for HD, but if we're talking out in the world everyday , the pistol makes more sense. It's almost like people that open carry, you're at a severe tactical disadvantage. You're basically shouting "please shoot me in the back of my . and take my weapon" in front of God and everyone...lol It's going to require 2 hands so you wont be able to do anything but hold a shotgun, that sorta defeats the purpose of going out in town. As far as ballistics are concerned, a 12ga will trump a pistol all day everyday, but unfortunately you won't be able to get it unslung fast enough to ever find out, your average practiced shooter will have you well ventilated before you get off the X unless you walk around town with your 12ga at the low ready


Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my shotgun and because of its versatility if I could only own one weapon, that would be it. But I also know its limitations, its strengths and its weaknesses. Personally the 12ga is a Home Defense weapon, or maybe a trunk gun. It shines 0-25 Yards... Am I saying a shotgun isnt effective past 25 yards? Of course not, I've seen guys make combat effective hits on paper @ 100 yards with slugs. What I'm saying is past 25 yards, you have more effective tools at your disposal (provided they're in your toolbag).

***Time to go into hypothetical insert post apocalyptic movie scenerio here mode***

The only time I would consider carrying a shotgun out in town would be if I was with a team of guys with carbines (hopefully the tactical advantage of having strength in numbers and superior firepower would dissuade anyone from putting two in my back and trying to take it, high risk low reward) And even then, I'd use it for breaching.

***Back to reality***

AND for the record, while I do OWN Glocks, I don't carry one, I carry a Colt Commander XSE with 230gr Gold Dots and I would probably continue to carry it should TSHTF as long as I could properly lube and maintain it. As has been previously stated, most 1911 have super tight tolerances and while thats great for accuracy , its not so great for reliability. They do make out of the box reliability enhanced combat ready pistols (Springer Professional & various wilsons come to mind) but these guns are hand fitted by a smith and are gonna run you $3000 on the low end) If I was going somewhere wet or grimey, I'd grab one of my old service pistols (Probably my G23) I'm probably going to get flamed by fanboys but I'd also advise you to stay away from Kimbers (Yeah, I said it
)
edit on 12-3-2012 by EyesWideShut because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 09:00 AM
link   
The first thing you need to do is get a gun safety course down and determine your method to secure the weapon. That is step one before purchase or bringing it home.When that serial number gets tied to your name ...your responsible for everything that happens. Either through your own use or your own negligence.

Work that part out first.

My daily carry is a full sized Beretta 96D which is no longer made. A similar weapon is the Beretta 92 or a couple in the Taurus family. Its big, beefy and stainless. I have extended mags that can run through it in .40S&W that take 20 rounds as well as 10 rounders. I also have a full spring set installed and a spare spring set, as well as collecting spare parts. I know all of the other guns with interchangeable parts as well. Recently I purchased an EFK Firedragon match grade barrel in 9mm and the spare 15 and 32 round mags that go with that. Couldnt see much use for .357 sig as its not a popular round or I would have that barrel as well.

But it didnt all happen in one day. Thats an expensive set thats taken a couple years to build. Just like the lifetime of safe firearms handling and the skills with that specific set. It took time.

I started with a safety class as a very young child and paid attention. Get the class and get to a rental range. Shoot as many different guns as you can over several days so you dont make the mistake of having to trade in at a loss over and over again. Do it right and buy once. Then get the safety class and self defense classes. Both are worth every penny.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:35 PM
link   
I'd go with a good 'ole 1911 .45ACP, Rock Island Armory is a pretty cheap manufacturer. And can't go wrong with it, great stopping power but as a lot have probally said not much rounds. Personally in MHO I would get the 1911 and a Glock (any model because there all awesome). Then your set to go, maby get a Mossberg Shotty or Benelli Shotty for great home protection, just all depends on what your looking for. Oh and if you get a Glock get the awesome 32rd magazine. Can't have enough rounds




top topics



 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join