If Jesus was Infact the son of "God" Arn't we all?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Of course, if God is the guy the bible describes, he could do anything. But the question is why. Why would God give us an example of perfection that we couldn't possible attain, due to perfect DNA, and then tell us to be that way? Why would Jesus take that special DNA to the grave, and not pass on the divinity? I'm just not buying it.

When you look at it close up from that point of view, of course it does not make sense. That is because you need to take a couple of steps back from who Jesus was and his unique genetic composition and look at why God sent him here.

He came with one sole purpose; to be the ultimate sacrifice for a new convenant for not only the Jews this time, but all of mankind. If you read the rest of the story, then you find the he was crucified by the Romans under Pontius Pilate, was buried in a tomb and then on the third day he rose from the grave.

Once again, belief is optional but that is the climax of the story and why Christians are Christians; because of their belief in this key aspect of the story.

reply to post by TedHodgson


Gods my dad then....?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well, it was some body of water. It was the place that we would go to, to gather salt.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by windword

 

these truths are found nowhere in the Bible.

Im gonna have to disagree with that one... You don't have to be christian to see the truth in the bible

edit on 7-3-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

There are, certainly, truths in the Bible. Some very beautiful truths. But, IMHO, the story of Jesus, his life and his words have been sanitized. One has to scour and read between the lines to get the messages Jesus tried to convey. And then, what we do find is only the "tip of the iceberg."

reply to post by markosity1973

He came with one sole purpose; to be the ultimate sacrifice for a new convenant for not only the Jews this time, but all of mankind. If you read the rest of the story, then you find the he was crucified by the Romans under Pontius Pilate, was buried in a tomb and then on the third day he rose from the grave.

I refuse to believe that. I refuse to find glory in human sacrifice. Glorifying the death of Jesus takes the emphasis off of his life. This is the "slight of hand" trick of the Catholic Church. Their crucifix portrays him as still hanging on that cross. Christianity shouldn't be a death cult, but to many, it is.

The fact that Jesus lived is more important, IMO, than his death. He came here to teach, not to die. Dying happens to us all. There is nothing special about dying. The human condition, bodily function and the deterioration of the body, is degrading and humiliating. The fact that Jesus died a humiliating death is indicative and just par for the course of being human.

reply to post by LaughingatHumanity


Or makes you get up and climb a mountain to sacrifice your son only to go "HEY!? What are you doing? I wasn't serious obviously..." =)

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well, it was some body of water. It was the place that we would go to, to gather salt.

Hey, that's fine. But it wasn't Jesus teaching on the shore. He taught on the shores of the Sea of Galilee not the Red Sea. And the Sea of Galilee is a fresh body of water.

reply to post by windword

He came here to teach, not to die.

Nope, He came to die for the sins of mankind. He even explicitly says so. If He wanted to teach us something new He could have just sent a prophet, He didn't need to get off His throne to do that.

Jesus saying: "It was for this hour I came."

"Now my soul is in turmoil, and what should I say - 'Father, save me from this hour'? No! It was for this very reason that I came to this hour." ~ John 12:27

Jesus saying His shed blood is "for the remission of sins of the many."

"For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
Matthew 26:28

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I know that's what you believe, but I reject that line of thinking. There is nothing special about death, it's a guarantee that comes with life. It was the 33 years of his life that was important, I just can't understand why Christians are so into death, blood sacrifice and cannibalism. It boggles the rational mind.

And after all that, the Bible's New Testament, all 27 books, 260 chapters, 7,959 verses, 181,253 words, how many are actually words that Jesus spoke?

Actually, I don't even believe that Jesus died on the cross. I believe his death was faked. I believe that he went on, to France, or some say to India or even the Americas, and continued his ministry.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It's my memory, it was Jesus. If you don't believe in reincarnation, that's fine. But, if you did live before and saw and heard Jesus speak, trust me, you would know it was Jesus.

Edit to add:
This a post of mine from this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe in reincarnation. The reason I do is because I can remember some of my past lives, the good life ones and ones where I was not so nice.

I was raised Pentecostal and left as soon as I could. What brought me to seek out the "Christ" consciousness was a memory litterally "revealed" to me.

I was a young woman of pretty low status, and I was amazed that I, a woman, was openly invited and welcome to an assembly to listen to a man speak. I remember siting on the banks of the Dead Sea listening in awe of this man who spoke so profoundly of the secret things only holy men were allowed to know, in so simple a way, that I, a lowly woman could understand.

He was explaining how all men and women have a natural place in gods creation, just as the colors of the rainbow are seperate and in their place. He spoke of how the order of the universe is divine and we all perfect. There is no good or evil, that in god's world its all part of God's color palate.

He told us that we had many life times to reach this "Christ" conscienceness and gods time is not man's time. I believe that as we, as individuals, naturally strive to attain "Christ" conscienceness, and by divine law we automatically raise the conscienceness of the mankiind. When humanity arrives and is "there", that is the victory and return of the "Christ." Not one is "saved" until all are saved.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I know that's what you believe, but I reject that line of thinking.

It's not a 'line of thinking", that's Philosophy. I just read what Jesus said and formed my theology from that foundation. That's called "EXEGESIS", not Philosophy.

There is nothing special about death, it's a guarantee that comes with life.

That perhaps is true for you and I, but when the Creator of the universe incarnates as a human and states that the reasons for doing so were to come here to this hour and die for the sins of mankind then I'd think that would be important information to consider.

It was the 33 years of his life that was important,

His life isn't the basis your sins are forgiven, it's through His shed blood of the new covenant.

I just can't understand why Christians are so into death,

It's a release. Earth is Hell to those on the journey to Heaven. Earth is Heaven to those on the journey to Hell.

blood sacrifice

I follow Jesus, if He said it's the reason He came and the reason He shed His blood, who am I to argue with Him? Can the clay say to the potter, "Why have you made me this way?"

and cannibalism.

That's Catholics. They believe the communion bread becomes Jesus' real flesh, and they believe the wine actually turns into blood. Protestants just see the bread and wine as symbolic. The broken bread, His broken body, the red wine, His shed blood that initiated the new covenant between Him and mankind.

It boggles the rational mind.

It boggles the Natural mind, yes, and that's exactly what God says:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD" ~ Isaiah 26:28

And I can attest to that. Before Christ found me I thought it was all poppycock too. Paul also highlights what you're just mentioned above:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." ~ 1 Corinthians 2:14

And after all that, the Bible's New Testament, all 27 books, 260 chapters, 7,959 verses, 181,253 words, how many are actually words that Jesus spoke?

I dunno, I haven't counted. Apparently you know though, does the website that you got that information from also say how many words in the NT are in red lettering? Why only the NT though? The LORD had tons of things to say in the OT too.

Actually, I don't even believe that Jesus died on the cross.

Wow, that's BOLD!!!! Not even Atheist and Agnostic scholars and historians deny Christ died on a Roman cross. Guy Ludemann and Bart Ehrman both say it's an "indisputable fact" of antiquity. When even hostile sources don't deny the claim that's very strong evidence for truth.

I believe his death was faked.

How do you fake not being able to rise up on the nail in one's feet to be able to take another breath? The Roman soldiers knew Christ was dead because He stopped lifting Himself up to catch a breath. Humans die without breathing bro.

Then to make sure, a Roman soldier thrust a spear into Christ's heart and water and blood flowed from the wound. The American Medical Association did a study years ago and determined the accounts from the Bible, I.E. blood and water flowing from His chest wound, would be expected from a scourging and final death by asphyxiation.

And lets say He didn't die on the cross. Josephus records the tale of 3 men taken down from the cross and given the best medical care Rome could muster and two of the three still died as a result. Jesus would never have been afforded the best medical care of the Empire, He wasn't a Roman citizen.

So basically Christ was beaten, scourged, beard plucked out, nailed to a Roman cross, and had a spear thrust into His side and He walked away from that after 3 days without intensive care?

Now THAT Sir, truly boggles the rational mind.

I believe that he went on, to France, or some say to India or even the Americas, and continued his ministry.

Then the apostles were idiots. Not only did they ALL refuse to recant in the face of martyrdom, but they didn't even realize they were lying about Christ dying and raising from the dead?? AMAZING!!! That's an even bigger miracle than the ones recorded in the book of ACTS!!!

reply to post by windword

It's my memory, it was Jesus. If you don't believe in reincarnation, that's fine. But, if you did live before and saw and heard Jesus speak, trust me, you would know it was Jesus.

No, I'm not trusting you with spiritual matters. I trust the book that displays characteristics of originating from a source that exists outside the space time dimension. The only thing that exists outside the space time dimension is the entity that Created it to begin with.

Adam Smith: "Trust me, I spoke with an angel."
Muhammad: "Trust me, I spoke to an angel in a cave."
Jim Jones: "Trust me! I've heard from the Lord!"
Charles Taze Russel: "Yo, I got this! I spoke with an angel!"



"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Who's to say that they didn't, you?

Isn't that how all scripture came about? Someone said, trust me. You just pick and choose, based on your personal bias, who to believe.

The thing is, I'm not trying to convert you to reincarnation, not am I asking you to trust me in your personal spiritual matters. When the soul is ready to remember, it will. Getting passed the trauma of previous deaths, taking responsibility for past karma isn't easy stuff. I can see why you need your Bible to guide you and tell you what to think.

reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence


TO KNOW IS TO LISTEN, to listen is to act on the word of GOD , now if you truely want to hear and seek true meaning to all that is happening then give this a shot. start reading the book of proverbs, then open your heart and mind completely to GODS WORD, dont look for the negative, cause you will find it. imagine we all grew up in heaven, what if we too CHOSE TO FOLLOW SATAN? BUT GOD SENT US HERE TO GO THROUGH DIFFICULTIES TO FIND HE's LOVE. TO TEACH US HOW TO FIND AND HOLD ON TO HIS LOVE FOREVER. REMEMBER WE ALL ARE GOING TO DIE. WHAT DO YOUCTHINK HAPPENS TO INNOCENT BLOOD? I TELL YOU WHEN YOU START OBEYING GOD AND FOLLOWING HIM, invite HIM THENCTHE GIFTS ALONE WILL SURELLY HAVE YOU REPLING LIKE i am today. GOD BLESS YOU.

reply to post by matthew24


You do know that God didn't write the book of Proverbs, Solomon did.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by markosity1973

 

He came with one sole purpose; to be the ultimate sacrifice for a new convenant for not only the Jews this time, but all of mankind. If you read the rest of the story, then you find the he was crucified by the Romans under Pontius Pilate, was buried in a tomb and then on the third day he rose from the grave.

I refuse to believe that. I refuse to find glory in human sacrifice. Glorifying the death of Jesus takes the emphasis off of his life. This is the "slight of hand" trick of the Catholic Church. Their crucifix portrays him as still hanging on that cross. Christianity shouldn't be a death cult, but to many, it is.

The fact that Jesus lived is more important, IMO, than his death. He came here to teach, not to die. Dying happens to us all. There is nothing special about dying. The human condition, bodily function and the deterioration of the body, is degrading and humiliating. The fact that Jesus died a humiliating death is indicative and just par for the course of being human.

I know it seems hard to believe. Being a member of faith doesn't mean that everything is easy to accept or it all makes logical sense to us though. I can see what you mean and why you would think that such a great prophet who was so unique should have lived on and reproduced. Had he done that, he would not have been Christ the redeemer though. He would have been Jesus the very amazing prophet and the new testament would probably not have been written, books would have probably been written about his life and then added to the old testament. There would ne no Christians, we would be Jesus loving Jews still presumably waiting for the Christ.

A bit of an interesting thought for you though; Right at the beginning of the bible God makes a cryptic reference in Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

This emnity spoken of is regarded by scholars as Jesus and more importantly right there at the time of the original sin, God planned to do something about the serpent (Satan)

reply to post by markosity1973

I know it seems hard to believe. Being a member of faith doesn't mean that everything is easy to accept or it all makes logical sense to us though.

Does being a member of a faith, like the faith of Catholicism or Protestant, require that member to accept all it's doctrine, even if that doctrine defies logic? Is questioning the traditional doctrine wrong?

I can see what you mean and why you would think that such a great prophet who was so unique should have lived on and reproduced.

It's not what I think SHOULD have happened, it"s what I think DID happen.

Had he done that, he would not have been Christ the redeemer though. He would have been Jesus the very amazing prophet and the new testament would probably not have been written, books would have probably been written about his life and then added to the old testament. There would ne no Christians, we would be Jesus loving Jews still presumably waiting for the Christ.

So a life cut short makes Jesus the (reluctant) redeemer? I don't really see Jesus as being a prophet, but as a teacher. He taught people how to access their inner "Christ." You know, Jesus' last name isn't Christ. That's a term that was out there and then assigned to Jesus, long after his (supposed) death.

Anyway, aren't all Christians still waiting for Christ?

A bit of an interesting thought for you though; Right at the beginning of the bible God makes a cryptic reference in Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

This emnity spoken of is regarded by scholars as Jesus and more importantly right there at the time of the original sin, God planned to do something about the serpent (Satan)

I just don't see how Jesus fits into that equation at all. Who is the snake's offspring? Is Jesus the offspring of Eve? How could that be, since he was the product of immaculate conception? Did Jesus crush the snake's offspring's head and when did Jesus get his heal wounded?

I don't believe in original sin. I refuse to believe in a god that would deliberately set up and trick his children into mortal sin and death. That is not the metaphor meant in the eating of the apple. I see the story of Eden as being a positive move for humanity, into a new consciousness, a new reality to master.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by markosity1973

 

I know it seems hard to believe. Being a member of faith doesn't mean that everything is easy to accept or it all makes logical sense to us though.

Does being a member of a faith, like the faith of Catholicism or Protestant, require that member to accept all it's doctrine, even if that doctrine defies logic? Is questioning the traditional doctrine wrong?

Of course not. An enquiring mind needs to be satisfied. My main point there is that those of us who do believe accept that not everything is logical or makes sense. However, we have seen and heard enough to accept that the overall story is true, even if some of the details are puzzling.

I can see what you mean and why you would think that such a great prophet who was so unique should have lived on and reproduced.


It's not what I think SHOULD have happened, it"s what I think DID happen.

There is another world religion out there that agrees with you on that one. But consider this; the Catholic Church knows where the remains of almost all of the main characters are with two notable exceptions; Jesus and his mother Mary. I know there are all sorts of conspiracy theories out there about this including among other things that the church conveniently forgot about or disposed of his remains in order to keep the story believable. But think of this; If Jesus remains were found, don't you think it would be 'good for business' i.e there would be a massive influx of pilgrims wanting to visit them.

Had he done that, he would not have been Christ the redeemer though. He would have been Jesus the very amazing prophet and the new testament would probably not have been written, books would have probably been written about his life and then added to the old testament. There would ne no Christians, we would be Jesus loving Jews still presumably waiting for the Christ.

So a life cut short makes Jesus the (reluctant) redeemer? I don't really see Jesus as being a prophet, but as a teacher. He taught people how to access their inner "Christ." You know, Jesus' last name isn't Christ. That's a term that was out there and then assigned to Jesus, long after his (supposed) death.

Yes, Jesus was a tad reluctant, look at the story of the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus prayed to God and agonised over what he knew was to come. He asked God that if he willed it to remove the suffering that he was about to endure, but that God's will be done in the end.

Anyway, aren't all Christians still waiting for Christ?

No, Christians are awating the return of Christ. The other world religion I mentioned earlier also believes that he will return, but as a great prophet.

A bit of an interesting thought for you though; Right at the beginning of the bible God makes a cryptic reference in Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

This emnity spoken of is regarded by scholars as Jesus and more importantly right there at the time of the original sin, God planned to do something about the serpent (Satan)

I just don't see how Jesus fits into that equation at all. Who is the snake's offspring? Is Jesus the offspring of Eve? How could that be, since he was the product of immaculate conception? Did Jesus crush the snake's offspring's head and when did Jesus get his heal wounded?

I don't believe in original sin. I refuse to believe in a god that would deliberately set up and trick his children into mortal sin and death. That is not the metaphor meant in the eating of the apple. I see the story of Eden as being a positive move for humanity, into a new consciousness, a new reality to master.

Ahh, yes the original sin and the offspring....

This is where a little faith comes in alright. Firstly (and this is my own personal belief here) I don't think God set anyone up. I also don't believe that he expected the serpent a.k.a satan to tempt Eve. He was obviously not happy about the events that transpired though.

As for the serpents children, have you ever heard of demons? Where do you think they are from....

This is a lot for anyone to take in I know. I would never expect a person to read all of that and go, 'oh okay, I get it now' and start to believe.

Faith starts with the little things like accepting that no matter how much we think we are masters of our own destiny, we don't actualy control the entire universe and that sometimes things get thrown at us completely unexpectedly and from out of nowhere.

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reply to post by Surfrat


mmm cooookies

I have not laughed out loud like that in quite a while. Quirky and interesting, I love it