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The ultimate sin.

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posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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In my opinion, the worst thing someone can do to someone else is betray them. When someone trusts you, and you do something to break that trust, you cause way more harm to them than is justifiable by the motivation of your action.

Lots of things fall into the category of betrayal. Gossip and theft to name a couple, but there are many other things you can do that make the person feel the same feeling... The feeling of having been betrayed.




posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


i couldnt agree more when trust is destroyed it changes a person usually not for the better



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Or worse yet, bomb their country and family and then expect them not to betray you.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Betrayal 1 can see this as well as a major sin/FAIL. I say it because usually during the process of betrayal someone WILL are IS being trustworthy of another who may be totally deceptive and only wants to meet their personal goals so they betray others who may trust them to get the deed accomplished. Betrayal is EVOL in so many ways. I do though think there is a difference between intentional betrayal and accidental betrayal.

Examples:
intentional betrayal = You know there is money in your friends house and you steal it to build your own.
[color=gold] You know your friend worked hard for their money and you stole it out of greed.


accidental betrayal= I lend you some money and tell you I need it back to pay a bill and you forgot to return it after I told you I needed it back on time.

[color=gold] You didn't mean to cause me any issues you just forgot.
edit on 3/7/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Betrayal 1 can see this as well as a major sin/FAIL. I say it because usually during the process of betrayal someone WILL are IS being trustworthy of another who may be totally deceptive and only wants to meet their personal goals so they betray others who may trust them to get the deed accomplished. Betrayal is EVOL in so many ways. I do though think there is a difference between intentional betrayal and accidental betrayal.

Examples:
intentional betrayal = You know there is money in your friends house and you steal it to build your own.
[color=gold] You know your friend worked hard for their money and you stole it out of greed.


accidental betrayal= I lend you some money and tell you I need it back to pay a bill and you forgot to return it after I told you I needed it back on time.

[color=gold] You didn't mean to cause me any issues you just forgot.
edit on 3/7/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


If it is an accident, its not really betrayal and is easily seen as such by the victim unless they refuse to accept it.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
If it is an accident, its not really betrayal and is easily seen as such by the victim unless they refuse to accept it.


I agree with that statement 100%



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


IMO, trust is just as much a problem as beytrayal. You can only be betrayed once you have trusted. I don't believe in trusting anymore. It's like hiding a land mine in your own bedroom. It has a 50/50 chance of blowing up in your face.

Instead, I prefer to have faith. Trust assumes that the situation or relationship will either go one way or the other. It's plurality at its core. Faith (I'm not talking about religion, but faith in people or situations) can see you through anything and is always there are long as you wish it. Trust vanishes the moment it is broken.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Hope4TheBest
 


Thats a very nice post.

I see it pretty much the same way in that Faith does not have a duality. This also comes up in another of the OPs threads, where I say that Love does not have a duality. When they are translated into our experience (through our senses and brain), they get split into the duality of all-things. Where it is trust and betrayal, and love and hate.

I think that Faith and Love both speak to the same concept here, which is a continuous and conscious action taken on our part that connects us to a "deeper" part of our experience that exists outside of the dualistic/material form. Smith, this would come into play if, as you say, light is Love.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Personally I find their to be one sin against god
A crime for which the punishment is always death

That sin is to live
For life is a crime punishable by death
But it's only a crime once you've been caught
but do anything long enough and eventually everyone gets caught in the end

To have tasted life is to know death



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by Hope4TheBest
 


Thats a very nice post.

I see it pretty much the same way in that Faith does not have a duality. This also comes up in another of the OPs threads, where I say that Love does not have a duality. When they are translated into our experience (through our senses and brain), they get split into the duality of all-things. Where it is trust and betrayal, and love and hate.


Thank you for the compliment.


I agree that love, like faith, does not have a duality, but want to point something out.

You mentioned that trust becomes betrayal and love becomes hate. It may seem that you are making a hypocritical point here by comparing love and hate while saying that love has not a duality, but you are not being hypocritical. Trust is synthetic. It is a cheap store-brand version of faith. The "love" that you describe as comparing to hate is a similarly synthetic form of love, and no, it isn't lust. Lust is just an excuse. It's something else. In American Sign Language, there are two distinctly different signs for love. One is meant for a being, the other is a more material love. That is the love of hate.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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I don't know how you could consider betrayal the "ultimate sin." You can re-earn someone's trust. I have experienced both sides of that.

It should be obvious that murder would be the ultimate sin. You can't give someone their life back.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Betrayal 1 can see this as well as a major sin/FAIL. I say it because usually during the process of betrayal someone WILL are IS being trustworthy of another who may be totally deceptive and only wants to meet their personal goals so they betray others who may trust them to get the deed accomplished. Betrayal is EVOL in so many ways. I do though think there is a difference between intentional betrayal and accidental betrayal.

Examples:
intentional betrayal = You know there is money in your friends house and you steal it to build your own.
[color=gold] You know your friend worked hard for their money and you stole it out of greed.


accidental betrayal= I lend you some money and tell you I need it back to pay a bill and you forgot to return it after I told you I needed it back on time.

[color=gold] You didn't mean to cause me any issues you just forgot.
edit on 3/7/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


What of this example. I know my child spilled soda on the carpet. I do not have concrete evidence it was he who spilled it. I have told my children numerous times not to bring soda into the living room. My child throws a rant and denies the accusation repeatedly. I reassure my child that "telling the truth is always better, and that he would not receive punishment if he would admit to it". My child does admit to spilling the soda and I end up punishing him anyway, for the principle of lying to me and having been told not to bring soda into the living room. I feel bad that I abused his trust but "justice" was served.

Necessary Betrayal?

Police use this tactic every day to obtain a confession from criminals.
edit on 7-3-2012 by theAmericanStory because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Hope4TheBest
 


I find it easiest to capitalize Love when referring to what is beyond the created perception of our minds. The mistake is on my part for not clarifying in the post.

So I definitely agree


Other languages through the past have also made the distinction.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Star & F

Every offense is indeed an act of betrayal! We should be able to trust not only those close to us, but all of our fellow humans that we don't even know. When any person offends any person, it is a betrayal.

However, we can not know trust unless we know betrayal. If there were no betrayal, there would be no trust. Oh the paradox of dualities! Can one pole of a duality ever be considered the ultimate anything?

Peace.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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I would probably agree that Betrayal is one of the worst things you can do to a person. It's so emotionally and psychologically damaging to have your trust betrayed. Trusting some then having them cheat on you, steal from you, bad-mouth you, etc, causes a person to question their whole outlook on life. For example: "If so-and-so betrayed me in this way, who else is being duplicitous with me? What else isn't real? Who else might hurt me in the future?" Being betrayed by someone close to you is a very hurtful and mind-altering experience.

I experienced Betrayal in a HUGE way a few years back and it completely unraveled my life. I questioned my own sanity for a time. I told almost everyone I knew to eff off and leave me alone, just because I didn't know who I could trust anymore. It took me a long, long time to be okay and to move on and start healing. I'm glad to say that today I am healthy and have rebuilt my ability to trust ppl. I've forgiven and let go of my hard feelings. But I'll still never be the same.

Those who take advantage of another's trust and betray them, are the lowest of the low.
Nuff said.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by theAmericanStory

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Betrayal 1 can see this as well as a major sin/FAIL. I say it because usually during the process of betrayal someone WILL are IS being trustworthy of another who may be totally deceptive and only wants to meet their personal goals so they betray others who may trust them to get the deed accomplished. Betrayal is EVOL in so many ways. I do though think there is a difference between intentional betrayal and accidental betrayal.

Examples:
intentional betrayal = You know there is money in your friends house and you steal it to build your own.
[color=gold] You know your friend worked hard for their money and you stole it out of greed.


accidental betrayal= I lend you some money and tell you I need it back to pay a bill and you forgot to return it after I told you I needed it back on time.

[color=gold] You didn't mean to cause me any issues you just forgot.
edit on 3/7/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


What of this example. I know my child spilled soda on the carpet. I do not have concrete evidence it was he who spilled it. I have told my children numerous times not to bring soda into the living room. My child throws a rant and denies the accusation repeatedly. I reassure my child that "telling the truth is always better, and that he would not receive punishment if he would admit to it". My child does admit to spilling the soda and I end up punishing him anyway, for the principle of lying to me and having been told not to bring soda into the living room. I feel bad that I abused his trust but "justice" was served.

Necessary Betrayal?

Police use this tactic every day to obtain a confession from criminals.
edit on 7-3-2012 by theAmericanStory because: (no reason given)


Not really necessary betrayal from my point of view. Why would you manipulate your child to tell you the thruth and then punish him. What is worse? Keeping the Carpet sodafree or the fact that you taught you child to have a mask of lies when talking to you because you are not to be trusted. Why judge at all? Buy some cleaners and have the kid clean the carpet so he will know if he does something he has to take responsability and fix it.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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But for Sin to be credible, you must have a choice but if the choice you always make is the choice you were designed to make, is it you that made the choice or the designer that made the choice for you?


Ribbit



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:18 AM
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The only sin is to turn away from God.
youtu.be...



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Wolf321
I don't know how you could consider betrayal the "ultimate sin." You can re-earn someone's trust. I have experienced both sides of that.

It should be obvious that murder would be the ultimate sin. You can't give someone their life back.



"Murder" is natural. Do you think if you kill an animal of your own species, it is any different than killing an animal of a different one? If a lion kills a man should we put that lion on trial? Nature is murderous man. Its okay.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe in killing for any reason except self-defense or to eat, but we don't exactly have any laws against hunting animals for sport do we?



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by ButtUglyToad
But for Sin to be credible, you must have a choice but if the choice you always make is the choice you were designed to make, is it you that made the choice or the designer that made the choice for you?


Ribbit


I don't mean sin in the theological sense of the word, and you're right, all sins are justified in that respect, and I agree. But betrayal cuts deeper than anything else I believe.



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