Oliver Stone: Allen Dulles engineered JFK assassination

Love him or hate him, Oliver Stone has never shied away from controversial subject matters in his movies or books.

One of his movies, JFK, offered the American public, and the world, an alternate view of what happened on Nov. 22, 1963 in Dallas. It was probably made as a counter-point to the seriously flawed Warren Commission which was the first official government investigation of the JFK assassination.

On Feb. 19, 2012, Oliver Stone and Tariq Ali had a discussion at the New York Public Library to discuss their new book and:

what they consider to be hidden aspects of American history

During this discussion Oliver Stone states many of the facts concerning the JFK assassination came from L. Fletcher Prouty (Mr. X in the JFK movie). Oliver Stone goes on to say that Dulles was "the man who initialed this, who gave it the okay" in other words the author who ordered the assassination of JFK.

Stone also claims two other highly placed members of U.S. Intelligence were also key: James Angleton and Richard Helms. "Those three guys, I would say now before I go to my grave, were the real culprits here", Stone says.

Here is a short clip from that discussion regarding Allen Dulles and U.S. Intelligence agents:

www.c-spanvideo.org...

This OP could easily go on for pages, but I offer this new information as a starting point for your own research and for further discussion here. There are also many other excellent threads here on ATS regarding the JFK assassination.

When you read about who these three men were and the positions they held with U.S. Intelligence agencies, it seems plausible they could have pulled off and covered up the JFK assassination.

The entire discussion from NYPL between Oliver Stone and Tariq Ali:

www.c-spanvideo.org...

I came across this information when reading some posts on one of many JFK forums, in this case the JFK Lancer Online Forums: www.jfklancerforum.com...

Lancer was the Secret Service codename for JFK.

Brief summary of who's who, spooks and JFK:

Allen Dulles:

- After WW2 served for six months as the station chief, Office of Strategic Services (OSS), Berlin. OSS was the predecessor of the CIA
- Director of the CIA in 1953
- forced to resign by JFK in 1961 after the Bay of Pigs fiasco
- appointed to the Warren Commission to investigate the JFK assassination, even though JFK had fired him


James Angleton

- chief of the CIA's counterintelligence (CI) staff from 1954 to 1975.
- made head of the Counterintelligence Staff of the CIA by Allen Dulles
- former congressman and lawyer, Mark Lane, suspected Angelton's involvement in the JFK assassination
- Lane claimed Angleton had a "team of assassins" ready to deal with counterintelligence threats that could not be tried or convicted under normal US laws


Richard Helms

- in 1943 worked for the OSS
- worked for OSO after the war which became part of the CIA in 1947
- Director of CIA from 1966 to 1973
- only CIA director found guilty of lying to the US Congress, fined and received suspended sentence


These are wiki sources, there is far more controversial material out there.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

If we live in a world where JFK could be assassinated and the people involved got away with it scott free then how is it possible someone like Oliver Stone is still alive and could make a movie like JFK.

My instincts tell me that this is orchestrated,,, that he is part of the cover up and used as a mouth piece. Because I think the "conspiracy" is much bigger than a couple people. So someone like Stone is used to propagate that myth. Either that or Stone is so far away from the reality that he isn't viewed as a threat.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


Because despite whatever educate guess you can have to the point where its blindingly obvious, there is no evidence that could try someone in a court of law.

Mores the fact is Oliver were mysteriously plane crashed it might just look a tad suspicious.

www.imdb.com...

Here is a Brian De Palma movie from 68 with Deniro, its a bit mad but one of the recurring themes was, JFK ASSASSINATION WAS A COVER UP

Why is this still available to the public?

reply to post by 8311-XHT


So because Oliver Stone publicly criticizes the Warren Commition and routinely tries to open people up to the mere possibility that a conspiracy took place, as well as throwing some of his own opinions in there too.. he must be part of the cover up?

Does that make the OP part of the cover up too? How about myself? How about any other researcher out there today? Sorry but no, that's just not feasible. Those involved do not want people to question the official story, why on earth would they in fact? But just because Oliver Stone is still alive and even made a film on the subject that doesn't automatically mean we should assume he's involved in any cover up, that kind of logic is, with all due respect, just madness. Not everyone who questions will automatically be murdered. That's overly paranoid thinking there.

It's a very sad world where those who are like us and believe what many of us believe are seen as the evil ones or are looked at with suspicious eyes.. simply because they believe what we believe.

Originally posted by Ixtab
Why is this still available to the public?

Banning things never works. Ask the Vatican. It only makes whatever you're trying to ban more interesting to people. In a situation like this, your best bet is always going to be to flood the field with as much disinformation as you can. If somebody came out with a movie or documentary that got it exactly dead on correct, if you were involved, you just ignore it. It all becomes part of the noise. Half-truths, crazy theories planted by people "in the know," lies so outrageous that they "have to be true."

The JFK Assassination is a gold mine for this kind of thing, because there were already so many shady characters running around with their own agendas that they become easy to incorporate into the overall mental hairball. So you let people with the truth but no proof blather on. And you encourage convenient fools to help muddy the waters.

reply to post by Rising Against


I am just expressing my gut instinct from all the info I have seen studying this stuff.

From what I have seen this was not some fluke minor issue.. it's an immense structure that controls all aspects of our lives.

Now I fully realize I could be wrong.. but that is what all indications point to to me.

Also.. you have to understand how effective disinformation works. The best disinformation includes TRUTH with lies. What better way to get people off the right track than to have someone that appears to be on our side and appears to be on the right track yet is intentionally totally missing the real issues. There is even a small possibility Jim Garrison was part of this disinfo campaign IMO.

Originally posted by 8311-XHT...how is it possible someone like Oliver Stone is still alive and could make a movie like JFK.

There is one theory that says the TPTB deliberately let portions of the truth out to further demoralize the citizenry. Kind of a "yeah we murdered him, what are you going to do about it?" line of thought to rub the noses of the people in their own powerlessness.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


Oliver Stone wasn't killed because he was too well known and had too much light on him. However they did try to discredit him and his movie in the public eye even before it was finished. Most of the MSM gave the movie extremely harsh reviews, even though it is a very popular movie.

Some examples while the movie was still being made:

Chicago Tribune: JFK was "an insult to the intelligence".
Washington Post: "the absurdities and palpable untruths in Garrison's book and Stone's rendition of it" and that Oliver Stone was "a man of technical skill, scant education and negligible conscience"

This just goes on and on.

en.wikipedia.org...

Even influential people tried to discredit him, former President Gerald Ford and David Belin, who were also both members of the Warren Commission stated the film:

"a desecration to the memory of President Kennedy" and "a fraudulent misrepresentation of the truth to the American public"

history.howstuffworks.com...

This is coming from members of a commission who ignored many eyewitness testimonies, were selective in what they chose to include and not include in the report, and in some cases simply fabricated evidence, like the bogus autopsy hand drawn diagrams (which were not accurate) and the magic bullet that still defies all known laws of physics.

Governor Connally, who also wounded in the attack, when asked about if he believed in the Warren Commission's findings, said:

"Absolutely not," Connally said. "I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission."

www.opednews.com...

So, I think they couldn't kill Stone outright, so they tried to smear him in the public eye, another "lone nut" theory they seem to like so much.

By the way, the last official word on the JFK assassination from the U.S. government is from the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) which concluded that, based on acoustical evidence, there was likely more than one shooter. That was in 1979, and we're still waiting for a follow up.

reply to post by starviego


I do think that is an element of it.. because they are so in control no one could even fathom it.. and there is no way to stop it for this reason.

But that gets back to my point. The reason this is... is because anyone who is in a position to point this out would never be able to say it.. and if they did they would quickly be dealt with in a myriad of ways. You don't have to kill them either. There are probably countless ways of dealing with them.

Originally posted by 8311-XHT
If we live in a world where JFK could be assassinated and the people involved got away with it scott free then how is it possible someone like Oliver Stone is still alive and could make a movie like JFK.

My instincts tell me that this is orchestrated,,, that he is part of the cover up and used as a mouth piece. Because I think the "conspiracy" is much bigger than a couple people. So someone like Stone is used to propagate that myth. Either that or Stone is so far away from the reality that he isn't viewed as a threat.

edit on 7-3-2012 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)

Everybody knows stone is seeking the truth on that matter. If he dies, it will only lead to suspect the gov or cia killed him. Killing Stone would bring so much focus back on the JFK case that it would actually be more benefitial for them to keep him alive.

Think about if he died, all the JFK theories and internet searches would just sky rocket and people demanding truth again and what not. They don't want that. it seems they only do things that nobody ever know or rarely hears about.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel



Those are great points and you very well could be right. But what I have noticed is that even government sponsored disinfo agents are discredited... in a way it validates them as "renegades". Like Bob lazar. One reason I feel so strongly about this is because Stone is so myopic in his view. From what i see here he limits the scope of the conspiracy to a couple people. This is scapegoating to me. It's no different than the original assassination where you had a few supposed suspects - the mob, the Cubans, the Soviets.. Now the game has just moved to another group of patsies.. LBJ, Dulles etc,

The truth is these guys are all likely pawns in an immense game. And someone like Stone should see this immense web and machinery.. but he doesn't from what I see here. That is also why I say he could just be wrong.. and inadvertently spreading disinfo.. which is why they let him do it.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by 8311-XHT
If we live in a world where JFK could be assassinated and the people involved got away with it scott free then how is it possible someone like Oliver Stone is still alive and could make a movie like JFK.

My instincts tell me that this is orchestrated,,, that he is part of the cover up and used as a mouth piece. Because I think the "conspiracy" is much bigger than a couple people. So someone like Stone is used to propagate that myth. Either that or Stone is so far away from the reality that he isn't viewed as a threat.

edit on 7-3-2012 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)

Everybody knows stone is seeking the truth on that matter. If he dies, it will only lead to suspect the gov or cia killed him. Killing Stone would bring so much focus back on the JFK case that it would actually be more benefitial for them to keep him alive.

Think about if he died, all the JFK theories and internet searches would just sky rocket and people demanding truth again and what not. They don't want that. it seems they only do things that nobody ever know or rarely hears about.

But see.. I believe that this movie could have never been made if it was accurate... it never would have gotten off the ground. The only alternative I could see is if he somehow circumvented the studio system... but this seems to be a big Hollywood movie.

In the film itself, blame seems to have been cast on Air Force General Ed Lansdale as being the operational head, instead of Allen Dulles.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


The film JFK, was according to Stone, a

"counter-myth" to the "fictional myth" of the Warren Commission

It was based on two books, On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison and Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy by Jim Marrs.

I think Stone may have wanted to expand on the assassination, but he may have got push back.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by starviego
In the film itself, blame seems to have been cast on Air Force General Ed Lansdale as being the operational head, instead of Allen Dulles.

There is at least one connection between Dulles and Lansdale:

In the early 1950s, Allen Dulles gave Lansdale $5-million to finance CIA operations against the Hukbalahap movement, the rural peasant farmers fighting for land-reform in the Philippines.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

Was Lansdale just more smoke and mirrors or a foot soldier lower down carrying out orders?

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


Interesting info... I didn't know that. I need to get those books.

I have wondered about Jim Marrs too. I need to research him more.

reply to post by 8311-XHT

I have wondered about Jim Marrs too. I need to research him more.

First off let me say that you really should get his book, Crossfire. I have a copy of it with me now, It's a very fine book in my opinion.

Second, if you want to know a bit more about Jim Marrs then you could always read his posts on ATS here. His forum on ATS is also here.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by 8311-XHT

 

I have wondered about Jim Marrs too. I need to research him more.

First off let me say that you really should get his book, Crossfire. I have a copy of it with me now, It's a very fine book in my opinion.

Second, if you want to know a bit more about Jim Marrs then you could always read his posts on ATS here. His forum on ATS is also here.

haha Thank you! This site is so immense I might have never found that!

One thing I find very strange is that you have people scattered around who seem to be believe all these things are going on yet nothing ever comes of it. There is no movement to stop it. Is it just because people are happy with the "good life". There isn't an incentive to sacrifice anything to stop it? You have Martin Sheen getting arrested once in awhile for civil disovedience and that is about it. Strikes me as more fake revolutions..

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


Thanks OP, very interesting info, leading to even more fascinating theories.

I'm reading 11/22/63 by Stephen King now, and I'm very into the subject (again, having studied it a few times before) so thank you once more for reminding the Stone's angle.