Relocate Israel 2

reply to post by Deetermined


Sorry maybe I should not have mentioned Hamas to deflect from the real point, that Israel is undeniably a religious state and this is proved by the sentiments of its occupants (Israelis) as we have seen in previous posts by members here.

I think that Israeli's should take over Detroit.

Land is cheap.

It was a once beautiful city that could be rebuilt.

reply to post by blah2200


I disagree that the problem started when Israel wanted to become a Jewish state.

If Israel never tried to become a state, Jewish or otherwise, we'd still see Muslim factions killing each other over who was going to rule the next Caliphate.

Using Zionism is just a distraction for now. If Israel were to move out of the Middle East, the new fight would begin for the next Caliphate and Middle Eastern peace would never be known....still.

It looks like a global Caliphate is already being shaped anyway. I wonder how big the fight is going to become when they decide who's going to LEAD it.


GLOBAL CALIPHATE CONFERENCE PLANNED FOR AUSTRIA NEXT MONTH (February 21, 2012)

www.theblaze.com...

and the Muslim Brotherhood has already come out in the last few weeks to say that a new Caliphate is their ultimate goal, so I suspect that they plan on leading it....well, at least until another terrorist organization jumps in.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by blah2200

 

I disagree that the problem started when Israel wanted to become a Jewish state.

If Israel never tried to become a state, Jewish or otherwise, we'd still see Muslim factions killing each other over who was going to rule the next Caliphate.

Using Zionism is just a distraction for now. If Israel were to move out of the Middle East, the new fight would begin for the next Caliphate and Middle Eastern peace would never be known....still.

I do not think they should relocate the whole of Israel to another part of the world, the problems began after " the declaration, which came in the form of a letter to Lord Rothschild made two provisions: “that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,” or “the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.” (www.thisweekinpalestine.com...) The people of Palestine were duped.

As history shows us (maps etc) this was not the case.

Please also click the link on my signature to get non Muslim/Jewish first hand perspective on this mess.

reply to post by Azadok


My grandad served in Pallastine just after WW2. He was shot in the leg by a religious fundementalist. Only it wasnt an islamic fundementalist it was a jew. Britain should never have agreed to hand over what was a brittish protectarate to people who emigrated to Jerusalem from Europe and Russia. BUT lets get this into perspective, the original terrorists in Pallastine were the Zionists. The Arabs were and still are defending their homeland

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Since the holocaust is often cited as to why Jews "need" a homeland, I suggest Israel be relocated to Germany. If they got messed up by the Germans, then make the Germans pay for it....and leave the Arabs out of this.

Yet a few decades ago there were a million Jews living throughout the Middle East but have been displaced by persecution and repression. The Jewish need for a homeland is not just because of the treatment by the Nazi Germans et al after WW2, but treatment throughout the Islamic world.

On this basis, you cannot "leave the Arabs out of this". They have contributed to the need for an Isaeli homeland by displacing so may Jews themselves. A million Jews used to live across the Middle East and North Africa. The population of Jews in Iraq is ten and falling.

Regards

Why are they even entitled to israel. not like they're the only ones that have a religious stake in that land. not to mention the Palestinians were there first and were kicked out by the west. i say relocate them to Australia plenty of sand and all that other stuff


Middle east should be nuked, including Israel (otherwise it would be racist right?). without those useless countries our civilization would actually start to progress in a good direction. as it is now we are pretty much guaranteed a war with the countries in that region

How about move all Palestinians to their NATIVE countries :
-Egypt
-Syria
-Jordan
-Lebanon
etc.?

Why relocate Israel from THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
Only because life-haters suicidal MUSLIMS want EVERYTHING?

THEY HAVE THEIR [snip] COUNTRIES !!!

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by daaskapital
You did steal their land, through armed aggression.

The armed aggression was enacted towards us. I suppose that in your opinion we should have just stood there and take it, while the Arabs are waging genocide and killing us all.
Well, we thought otherwise and we kept defending our tiny villages until enough was enough and we took the offense instead of defense.

Call it whatever you wish, that is the truth and there's nothing you can do about it.

it is palestinian land, not Jewish. Just because your Holy Book says so, doesn't make it true.

Actually, their holy book says so as well. Doesn't make it true, but you know what does?
...
The UN recognition of Israel.

LOL, The UN recognizes something.. so therefore it is right? The UN has allowed many horrible things to happen. It is a corrupt organization. The land the Jews held in ancient times as stated in the book is much smaller than the land Israel has today.

Originally posted by Recollector
How about move all Palestinians to their NATIVE countries :
-Egypt
-Syria
-Jordan
-Lebanon
etc.?

Why relocate Israel from THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
Only because life-haters suicidal MUSLIMS want EVERYTHING?

THEY HAVE THEIR FCKING COUNTRIES !!!

Except Palestine, that was taken by the British and given to
Jews.

reply to post by blah2200


Yes, it is because of the theology of the land that there will never be peace.

This will not change.

My statements are more based around the acknowledgement that even if we were to move the Jews out of Israel, and they agreed, it would not mean peace for the Middle East.

Getting rid of one theology in the region would not bring peace to the Middle East.

It is a lost cause.

reply to post by rigel4


1. imho, anyone who thinks that GOD ALMIGHTY is going to tolerate Israel being in any other land than the land HE DECREED LONG AGO TO BE THEIR'S FROM HIM . . . is grossly uninformed.

2. He has yet to deliver all the land He promised them--BUT HE WILL.

3. The prophetic events surrounding Israel are progressing apace as the Biblical outline makes sufficiently clear.

4. As predicted, Jerusalem is a burden for the whole world.

5. It appears that Ezek 38 and similar prophecies in Psalms etc. are on tap for the not distant future . . . wherein Israel will be disciplined within an inch of her life yet protected ultimately by God and at least a portion of her current enemies obliterated--likely Damascus early on. Then, if not sooner . . . in the not distant future, all her Muslim enemies will be trashed to obliterated--including Saudia Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran etc.

6. It's never a wise move to bet against ALMIGHTY GOD. However, I realize there's a ton of folks hereon who are deeply entrenched in doing so. We'll see how that works out for them.

Originally posted by Recollector
How about move all Palestinians to their NATIVE countries :
-Egypt
-Syria
-Jordan
-Lebanon
etc.?

Why relocate Israel from THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
Only because life-haters suicidal MUSLIMS want EVERYTHING?

THEY HAVE THEIR FCKING COUNTRIES !!!

Relocate Israel from their own country? Really?

Read a Jewish Iraqis account of what has been going on in Israel, and his relocation to Israel, and all the other Europeans, Iranians, moroccans relocating to Palestine.

The Jews of Iraq

Originally posted by rigel4
Except Palestine, that was taken by the British and given to
Jews.

Your historical understanding seems to be grossly flawed.

Jordan is there. The so called "Palestinians" are historically Jordanians. Jordan COULD have taken them in as part of their native peoples.

However, the Arabs CHOSE instead to ruthlessly, heartlessly use the poorest of them as bargaining chips in their greed for Israel's land.

Regardless, GOD ALMIGHTY has the surpreme perspective. His decrees will be established and eternally remain.

This Palestinian has the correct perspective on it all:

JD FARAQ . . . Egyptian born "Palestianian"

www.youtube.com...

As much as this topic needs to be laid out on the table, every time it is, it becomes a sheetstorm of arguments and nastiness.

Which just goes to show, if we here on ATS descend in squabbling over a hypothetical, there is no way in hell it will be different in real life in the middle east.

As another poster pointed out, it is a lost cause. Dragging God into it and saying that he is on your side is just pathetic, as well as unprovable.

reply to post by rigel4

I still think the relocation is a sound and peaceful option, the alternative is almost certainly destruction at some point in the future.

Stop and think about that. It's not logical, not feasible, and no Israeli would support that. What NEEDS to happen is that Israel needs to be reigned in. Sign the NPT, open your sites for inspection, draw up FIRM borders, and STOP instigating your neighbors.

Israel has many enemies in the region, and continually poking at them does little to help the situation.

Gaza needs to be dealt with, up and until that is dealt with, I simply can't support any help provided to Israel outside of them actually being at war or attacked.

I fully support the right of those who live in Israel to stay there, as I fully support the rights of the people in Gaza to a peaceful FREE life.

As long as Israel continues it's ethnic cleansing of the region, and their instigation towards Islam, they will continue to generate wave after wave of would be terrorists willing to fight, and die, against Israel.

Then again, maybe that is the name of the game, because it's easy to say you don't support Israel while they aren't being bombed, but once you send in a few suicide bombers, then it becomes gaza who?

Palestine did exist. Palestinians do exist. Israel did exist, Israeli exists today, and will continue to exist as long as someone reigns them in. i just refuse to support them at the expense of others.

and I whole heatedly refuse to take part in the game of "either support Israel or you support terrorism" CRAP.
==========
Something I strive to understand in relation to this, hopefully someone here can explain it.

It's ok for Israel to be created by uprooting those who lived there, because possibly, thousands of years ago, Hebrews might have lived there.

But it's not ok to uproot Israelis and let Palestinians, who lived there merely 50 years ago, live and be free?

Lets just remember a few things. Israel declares itself a Jewish state, and as such, actually enacts racist policies. Israel declares it's right to attack anyone, including it's allies, regardless of international law. Israel declares it's willingness to launch nuclear warheads into major european cities. Israel paints Jewish religious symbols on it's weapons and tanks.

But the Arabs with sticks, home made rockets, and AK47s are the threat?

But see, I refuse to believe terrorism is created in a vacuum, because it is not. Israel and the US are becoming pros at waging the war or terror, but without dealing with the causes. So they kill some people, there's two more ready and waiting to take their place.

One of the fundamental causes of anti-israel sentiment, outside of honest antisemitism (which does exist) comes down to their treatment of the people in Gaza, it's a fact, and no amount of bible thumping or holocaust waving will change the fact that Israel has brought *SOME* of this upon herself.

This doesn't make it ok, but you can't fight it while ignoring what's causing it. You can't slap a bandaid on a gunshot wound without removing the metal that will cause the systemic infection.

So before Israeliguy has a chance to remind me I'm an antisemite, I support both sides, I support Israel and the arab nations. I denounce the terrorism and tactics being used from BOTH sides.

Spin away friend

I always thought that Israel should become a neutral power like the Vatican. They argue divine right or biblical whatever, then make them neutral. No armed forces, Palestinian governance of the surrounding area like Italy and Rome. An act of aggression against them to be met by a world mandate for intervention, they would love that. Palestinian rule means Palestinian sovereignty. The land, whatever Israel and Palestine can agree on keeping in mind that this is a compromise and should be negotiated by them alone.

After that Israel would have it forbidden to have an armed forces of any kind. Palestine would be charged with its defense and supervised by an attachment of UN personnel at all levels until the responsibility can be taken by them alone.

Israel would have to extend the olive branch and overcome the knee jerk reaction to use war to secure its stability. Thus far, has it worked? Do you really think it will, ever?

Think out of the box. The Palestinian people love the land as well. Build on that mutual love of the land and form a new nation which incorporates both people into it equally. It is the only way.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by rigel4

 

I still think the relocation is a sound and peaceful option, the alternative is almost certainly destruction at some point in the future.

Stop and think about that. It's not logical, not feasible, and no Israeli would support that. What NEEDS to happen is that Israel needs to be reigned in. Sign the NPT, open your sites for inspection, draw up FIRM borders, and STOP instigating your neighbors.

Israel has many enemies in the region, and continually poking at them does little to help the situation.

Gaza needs to be dealt with, up and until that is dealt with, I simply can't support any help provided to Israel outside of them actually being at war or attacked.

I fully support the right of those who live in Israel to stay there, as I fully support the rights of the people in Gaza to a peaceful FREE life.

As long as Israel continues it's ethnic cleansing of the region, and their instigation towards Islam, they will continue to generate wave after wave of would be terrorists willing to fight, and die, against Israel.

Then again, maybe that is the name of the game, because it's easy to say you don't support Israel while they aren't being bombed, but once you send in a few suicide bombers, then it becomes gaza who?

Palestine did exist. Palestinians do exist. Israel did exist, Israeli exists today, and will continue to exist as long as someone reigns them in. i just refuse to support them at the expense of others.

and I whole heatedly refuse to take part in the game of "either support Israel or you support terrorism" CRAP.
==========
Something I strive to understand in relation to this, hopefully someone here can explain it.

It's ok for Israel to be created by uprooting those who lived there, because possibly, thousands of years ago, Hebrews might have lived there.

But it's not ok to uproot Israelis and let Palestinians, who lived there merely 50 years ago, live and be free?

Lets just remember a few things. Israel declares itself a Jewish state, and as such, actually enacts racist policies. Israel declares it's right to attack anyone, including it's allies, regardless of international law. Israel declares it's willingness to launch nuclear warheads into major european cities. Israel paints Jewish religious symbols on it's weapons and tanks.

But the Arabs with sticks, home made rockets, and AK47s are the threat?

But see, I refuse to believe terrorism is created in a vacuum, because it is not. Israel and the US are becoming pros at waging the war or terror, but without dealing with the causes. So they kill some people, there's two more ready and waiting to take their place.

One of the fundamental causes of anti-israel sentiment, outside of honest antisemitism (which does exist) comes down to their treatment of the people in Gaza, it's a fact, and no amount of bible thumping or holocaust waving will change the fact that Israel has brought *SOME* of this upon herself.

This doesn't make it ok, but you can't fight it while ignoring what's causing it. You can't slap a bandaid on a gunshot wound without removing the metal that will cause the systemic infection.

So before Israeliguy has a chance to remind me I'm an antisemite, I support both sides, I support Israel and the arab nations. I denounce the terrorism and tactics being used from BOTH sides.

Spin away friend

edit on 7-3-2012 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)

I have only given you a star for logical and unbiased approach to the "Israeli/Palastinian Problem.
I would have given you applause if i knew how to do that.

I do want to applaud your post.

Sorry to bomb on the idea but it's been tried for the last couple thousand years already to no positive end. No one wants to shack up with the worst neighbors on the planet. Just because they did a tour of Europe and have Caucasian traits at this point in history doesn't make them any less vile or psychotic as a people.

They are still ultimately a heavily inbred tribe of Arab's whose beliefs are on par with fundamentalist Islam, they are an inherently divisive and violent culture that does not tolerate others. If you put them in Utah they would just wage war with the Mormons.

That might actually be somewhat amusing and beneficial though. Magic underwear people vs racist psychotics that have only gained tenure by exploiting the tragedy of WWII