Texas execution: How much is a death worth?

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Kryties

 

What is the point of even trying to come up with ways or reasons for how else we can handle the monsters? Just remove them. As efficiently as possible.

Because it's the right thing to do, and prevents humanity sinking to the level of the monster in order to punish them? Precisely how does it punish the person anyway? They are dead. They don't know they qare dead, they do not know they have been killed as a punishment....so who does the death penalty serve then? It can only serve to provide a sense of vengeance and revenge from the victims families and others involved.

Well.. I think I'm going to jump off for now myself. We both had our say and debates on this topic often go down from about this point. I will suggest that there are a large number of people who have lost loved ones to crime (I haven't personally) who would disagree on that whole right/wrong thing when it's the killers we're extending all this warmth and good will toward.

We can agree to disagree though.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I will suggest that there are a large number of people who have lost loved ones to crime (I haven't personally) who would disagree on that whole right/wrong thing when it's the killers we're extending all this warmth and good will toward.

It isn't warmth and goodwill, no matter how it's spun to sound. It is remaining morally right and not sinking to the same level as the criminal in order to seek vengeance/revenge as a form of emotional gratification.

Well.. I think I'm going to jump off for now myself. We can agree to disagree though.

Fair enough mate, be well.

reply to post by Kryties


You can't say "The US" .. we are 50 different states, thank you very much. Many states have banned executions, the state where I live for instance has a current moratorium on all executions.. while some other states execute very rarely, and others very often (Texas).

reply to post by Rockpuck


Are or are not those states a member of the United States governed by the US Federal Government?

reply to post by Kryties


Yeah, but @!$ the Federal Government, it's none of their damned business what states do to their criminals.

An emotive and complex subject.

Personally I find the whole idea of capital punishment hypocritical and immoral.

How can anyone justify killing someone by saying that killing someone is wrong?
It just doesn't weigh up in my book.

However, I must say, if someone killed or sexually abused anyone close to me I know my emotions would drive me to want to, and maybe even try to, kill that person myself.

Not much is black and white in this world.

I feel the primary responsibility of a judicial system is to remove the threat from society.
Once that condition has been met I think the secondary purpose should be punishment.
I honestly feel that prisoner rehabilitation should only be a consideration after the primary and secondary conditions have been met.
Obvioulsy the severity of the crime determines the type and length of punishment and the relevant timescale.

I would have serial killers, peadophiles, sex offenders etc serve life sentences, and meaning the rest of their life with no chance ever of release.
I would imprison them in a basic cell with just the bare essentials, no luxuries whatsoever.
And they would be put to work on chain gangs etc.
I don't think they should be worked to the point of death, but certainly hard labour.
The type or severity of crime would determine when or if they would ever be released into the general prison population.

I feel it perplexing that the US chooses to moralise to the rest of the world about human rights, freedoms etc yet on this subject it alone more or less from 'the west' chooses to stand beside those very nations it moralises against.

reply to post by Kryties


The difference thats missing from the list is Due Process and the fact that in the US if you are sentenced to death it is automatically appealed. Its one of the reasons people on death row in the US will sit there for 15-30 years before there execution date.

I dont think execution serve as a deterrant, which is what they are suppose to be, a warning to others that particular behavior ca have this type of result. The fact that there are countries who have more executions than the US whose Due process laws are a lot less dainty than ours shows it does not act as a deterent.

The one problem I have though, is where was the law when the condemned killed the person that got them the death sentence in the first place? With the economy the way it is, and the American Criminal Liberties Union (ACLU) turning our prisons into retreats, we are just asking for murders to rise. If a person could kill as many people as they wanted, with their only punishment being placed into a system that provides you with food 3-4 times a day, snacks, clean living space with heating and air, recreational equipment, field trips outside on a daily basis, receving top notch health care, cable TV, exercise, education etc, all while not having to work for it, is as bad and problematic as the murder itself.

I ahve no problem supporting the removal of the death system in the US, so long as we turn our prisons back into prisons, with hard labor and none of the perks.

reply to post by lnfidel

Even minor things like Rape, Child Molesters, Pedos

Peaodophiles and rapists are minor criminals committing minor crimes?

Personally I think they are the scum of the earth and are generally more 'evil' than your everyday, run of the mill murderer.

Originally posted by lnfidel

Says a dude dressed in drag with clip art of his boyfriends floating about his head.

Red Dwarf

reply to post by Freeborn


Freeborn,

I was being sarcastic. Crimes against kids are some of the most vile. And woman a lot of times do not far well.

Fry em up. We spend way to much $ molly coddling these animals.

Your mileage may vary. Were not all alike. I for one am very nice looking.

reply to post by Kryties


I'm sorry, I have no idea what that may or may not be. But if the dudes are dressing in the girls clothes, I'm out.

I'm OK with it if its something that turns your crank. Seriously.

Stay frosty

reply to post by lnfidel


It's called humour, and if that's the only way you can present your argument about the death penalty to me, by insults and mocking, then you are actually not worth my time or effort to respond any further.

reply to post by lnfidel


Sorry mate, peaodophilia and sex crimes are about the only things I see no humour in......anything else is fair game in my book.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I knew it wouldn't take long for the "a bullet is cheaper" crowd to come out from under the woodwork.

People are still being executed when they are actually innocent, despite the years of legal processes involved. Imagine what would happen if you removed all those processes and just took them out back and blew their heads off? How many more innocent people would die just to satisfy the bloodlust of those who salivate at the thought of watching somebody die?

A convicted criminal on death row has squandered the life they were given, and have become a liability to society. How about aborted fetuses? Were they a detriment to society before they were executed? Are they not executed innocents?

The death penalty is no more or less barbaric than abortion, yet one is OK and the other is not?

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


At what point in this thread was abortion ever mentioned, by me or anyone else?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the abortion debate, but nice try changing the subject.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Absolutely correct. We wouldn't have so many full prisons if prisons were something to be afraid of.

/TOA

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by The Old American

 

At what point in this thread was abortion ever mentioned, by me or anyone else?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the abortion debate, but nice try changing the subject.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm bringing the double standard to the table. Both are murder, yet one is "good" murder and the other is "bad" murder.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


You are implying that I said something about abortion being a good thing, which I did not. the fact is you have no clue on my stance on abortion, therefore you are merely saying it to derail the thread.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by The Old American

 

You are implying that I said something about abortion being a good thing, which I did not. the fact is you have no clue on my stance on abortion, therefore you are merely saying it to derail the thread.

edit on 7/3/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

I'm not implying anything about you. I couldn't care less what your stance on abortion is whether it's for or against. But you are arguing that executions are barbaric. I am arguing that abortions are executions and are just as barbaric, yet allowed to flourish. But certain political groups with a certain agenda don't believe it to be. Even though both are the willful and calculated ending of a human life. It's a double standard. They should both be thrown out as there is no justification for the taking of a life, unless it's to save a life.

/TOA