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Call for proof of herbal health claims

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posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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When you depend on Herbal remedies...and most of these plants that are harvested packaged and sold at a local Herbal Cure Store...you have to remember that unlike an RX pill you have gotton from a pharmacy...the potency of the Herbal stores product is always in question.

As an example just about anyone can understand...I am from Mass. where Pot has been Decriminalized. A person can carry up to just under an ounce of Pot. I DO NOT SMOKE NOR DO I ADVOCATE IT UNLESS IT IS FOR PEOPLE UNDERGOING CANCER TREATMENT as it seems to increase their appetite and relieve pain.

But one batch of pot from one plant will have a completely different effective level than another batch from a different plant. Thus when using Herbal Suppliments to combat dangerous Disases...you have no guarantee of how strong or wek the Herbal dose is. That is what a Drug Company does...sometimes using dirivatives of the same plant but in properly measured doses. It is safer on the patient.
Split Infinity




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:56 AM
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When you depend on Herbal remedies...and most of these plants that are harvested packaged and sold at a local Herbal Cure Store...you have to remember that unlike an RX pill you have gotton from a pharmacy...the potency of the Herbal stores product is always in question.
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 



Hmmm Let me see variable potency of harmless Herbs vs very sure potency of harmful RX poisons...Think I'll stick with herbs...



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 04:09 AM
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I suspect any effort to require certain labels could become an effort to eliminate all herbal supplements with very little effort. If the labels require multi-million dollar studies to prove something is true and the small herbal supplement company can't afford the study, then soon all we may have left are big business supplements that have been approved by the FDA or some large drug company.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 

Remember when ECHINACEA was all the rage as being a Cold Remedy? Health and Herbal remediy stores sold A Billion Dollars plus of the stuff...until mutiple tests were conducted by both Drug Companies and Universities and even the FDA?

Finally everyone agreed that ECHINACEA DID NOTHING to help stop, cure or prevent the Common Cold. There are THOUSANDS of Herbal remedies that have claims such as this in all sorts of areas of uses to help or cure Human Health issues but in their commercials...you will always see at the end of that 30 or 60 second TV add a bunch of small print that...if you record and pause it...thenget out a powerful Magnifying Glass Lense...you MIGHT me able to read the disclaimer that say's...these claims HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA or do we claim to have ANY PROOF that our product obtains claimed results!

Don't get me wrong...there are some suppliments that are good for you...I take a Large dose of Multivitamines everyday....but for Herbal remdies....leave that to the Pro's. Split Infinity



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Absolutely - "natural" health products should be required to have as much truth in advertising as anything else.

For far too long the producers have been able to make or imply claims of benefits without actually being required to support the claims with any evidence.

Very occasionally false claims are bought to court for this or that, but not nearly often enough.

www.stuff.co.nz
(visit the link for the full news article)

Total agreement from me. For years the health food industry (little pharma) has preyed on the gullibility of genuinely sick people and the worried well. Let's have proper evidence of efficacy.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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Why the attack on herbs?

Manipulation and deception are the foundation of every corporation these days, so who cares if someone wants to make some pocket money fooling people with snake oil?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by hawkiye
 

Remember when ECHINACEA was all the rage as being a Cold Remedy? Health and Herbal remediy stores sold A Billion Dollars plus of the stuff...until mutiple tests were conducted by both Drug Companies and Universities and even the FDA?

Finally everyone agreed that ECHINACEA DID NOTHING to help stop, cure or prevent the Common Cold. There are THOUSANDS of Herbal remedies that have claims such as this in all sorts of areas of uses to help or cure Human Health issues but in their commercials...you will always see at the end of that 30 or 60 second TV add a bunch of small print that...if you record and pause it...thenget out a powerful Magnifying Glass Lense...you MIGHT me able to read the disclaimer that say's...these claims HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA or do we claim to have ANY PROOF that our product obtains claimed results!

Don't get me wrong...there are some suppliments that are good for you...I take a Large dose of Multivitamines everyday....but for Herbal remdies....leave that to the Pro's. Split Infinity



I would say we really have to be careful with this type of thinking though. Studies can be easily designed to conclude whatever end result the interested parties wish to achieve. I work in this field and I understand study design and how studies can be set up to produce extreme bias whether inadvertantly or intentionally.

Native Americans I believe (from memory) were one group that relied/used Ecinacea as an aid to health. I haven't studied this plant extensively though I am familiar with it and I grow several different types. If I were to review studies on ecinacea, I would need to know, were we using whole plants. which cultivars, extracts, at what dosage levels, what were the specifics of study subjects, other potential interfering factors, etc. etc. the list is long.

My own gut feeling is that many plants used for their effects on health over centuries if not millenia by large groups of people tend to really do have advantages for health and combatting sickness, they just must be grown. harvested, prepared, and administered in the best possible fashion to get the best results.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
I suspect any effort to require certain labels could become an effort to eliminate all herbal supplements with very little effort. If the labels require multi-million dollar studies to prove something is true and the small herbal supplement company can't afford the study, then soon all we may have left are big business supplements that have been approved by the FDA or some large drug company.


You didn't bother trying to read what was actually required, did you??!


There is no requirement to prove anything.

This post is typical of the myopic approach most ATS-ers take to any issue - a total lack of actual critical thinking means you have completely missed the point!



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by hawkiye
 

Remember when ECHINACEA was all the rage as being a Cold Remedy? Health and Herbal remediy stores sold A Billion Dollars plus of the stuff...until mutiple tests were conducted by both Drug Companies and Universities and even the FDA?

Finally everyone agreed that ECHINACEA DID NOTHING to help stop, cure or prevent the Common Cold. There are THOUSANDS of Herbal remedies that have claims such as this in all sorts of areas of uses to help or cure Human Health issues but in their commercials...you will always see at the end of that 30 or 60 second TV add a bunch of small print that...if you record and pause it...thenget out a powerful Magnifying Glass Lense...you MIGHT me able to read the disclaimer that say's...these claims HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA or do we claim to have ANY PROOF that our product obtains claimed results!

Don't get me wrong...there are some suppliments that are good for you...I take a Large dose of Multivitamines everyday....but for Herbal remdies....leave that to the Pro's. Split Infinity



What are you talking about you can't make any claims about herbal remedies there were no commercials etc. and echinacea did not harm anyone so I say so what. People need to do their own due diligence and stop giving big brother more and more power. There have always been snake oil salesmen and always will be. There is no truth in drug advertising. Statin drugs don't help heart disease yet the drug companies have made billions selling that crap and it has killed thousands and your worried about some herbs that harmed no one....Sigh! I don't care if they work or not they are not harming anyone like the industrial poisons being sold under the guise of medical science. You folks calling for government intervention are the enemies of freedom and don't even know it! Butt the eff out!



We physicians with all our training, knowledge and authority often acquire a rather large ego that tends to make it difficult to admit we are wrong. So, here it is. I freely admit to being wrong. As a heart surgeon with 25 years experience, having performed over 5,000 open-heart surgeries, today is my day to right the wrong with medical and scientific fact.

I trained for many years with other prominent physicians labelled "opinion makers." Bombarded with scientific literature, continually attending education seminars, we opinion makers insisted heart disease resulted from the simple fact of elevated blood cholesterol.

The only accepted therapy was prescribing medications to lower cholesterol and a diet that severely restricted fat intake. The latter of course we insisted would lower cholesterol and heart disease. Deviations from these recommendations were considered heresy and could quite possibly result in malpractice.

It Is Not Working!

These recommendations are no longer scientifically or morally defensible. The discovery a few years ago that inflammation in the artery wall is the real cause of heart disease is slowly leading to a paradigm shift in how heart disease and other chronic ailments will be treated.

The long-established dietary recommendations have created epidemics of obesity and diabetes, the consequences of which dwarf any historical plague in terms of mortality, human suffering and dire economic consequences.

Despite the fact that 25% of the population takes expensive statin medications and despite the fact we have reduced the fat content of our diets, more Americans will die this year of heart disease than ever before.

Statistics from the American Heart Association show that 75 million Americans currently suffer from heart disease, 20 million have diabetes and 57 million have pre-diabetes. These disorders are affecting younger and younger people in greater numbers every year.

Simply stated, without inflammation being present in the body, there is no way that cholesterol would accumulate in the wall of the blood vessel and cause heart disease and strokes. Without inflammation, cholesterol would move freely throughout the body as nature intended. It is inflammation that causes cholesterol to become trapped.

billstclair.com...

edit on 10-3-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Gee, I found this and I think it is most interesting and timely, as regards just one herb, echinacea.

Look how it was used historically and what fate it met and by the hand of whom?............I would have never guessed.
....The AMA. How many other historically used herbs have met the same fate or will soon. Hmmm.... by similar organizations (and soon to be ONE)


Echinacea was used frequently by Native American Tribes for a wide variety of conditions. At least 14 tribes used Echinacea for ailments such as coughs, colds, sore throats, and infections. It was even used by the Dakotas as a veterinary medicine for their horses.
In 1887, Echinacea was introduced into U.S. medical practice, and it grew in popularity. By the early twentieth century Echinacea had become the top selling herb in America. However, with the discovery of penicillin and other "wonder drugs," the popularity of Echinacea eventually waned. Even though it continued to be used in America it fell completely into disuse in the 1930's after it was dismissed as worthless by the AMA.

natsci.edgewood.edu...


edit on 10-3-2012 by Tecumte because: link added

edit on 10-3-2012 by Tecumte because: sp.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 


Good points! I am sure the echinacea sold off the walmart shelf might have been worthless however the stuff is in hundreds of flowerbeds across the country and grows wild. Harvest the flowers and see what is can really do! Who knows what your getting from the store.



posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 



I don't care if they work or not


And that's that.



posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Well I think if the Herbal Health products companies want to actually competively succeed and increase they would want to step up to the plate and have their products anayzed for purity anyway ( here I'm talkingmore about raw forms of the products) I know some already claim to, it wouldn't cost that much, and i suspect if they could show simple HPLC peaks as to many active compounds, I imagine at it's cheapest one could hire some poor struggling college student with access to an HPLC ( or buy one cheap off the net) you could do your own analysis, or perhaps start a service to provide it to others.

I wouldn't want to see this forced on these companies though, it should be voluntary-- unless SPECIFIC claims of 'cure' are being made== I think it would be a good selling point though, I'm surprised more companies aren't employing this.



posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Tecumte
 

I agree that there are bound to be corporate studies that are FUDGED in order to get people not to buy a Cheap Herbal Product that works. Native American Indians used to ground up White Pine Tree Bark into a powder then drink it as a tea with water. It is basically ASPRIN...which is not only a Pain Killer but an Anti-Inflamatory.

Still...Herbal Medacines should be tested for potency. Split Infinity



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


So then the issue is not that herbal health claims should have to be verified, but that GMO should also have to be verified.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:24 PM
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Siberian Ginseng, approx $10.00 at local herb shop, gives you a very noticeable energy boost and stimulates the libido.(do not take if you have high BP)
Austalagus, Chinese red sage, Angelica ect made into a brew boosts your energy, if you avoid alcohol and coffee.

THere are other Chinese herbs , that work for many ailments also.
Get them from a Chinese shop owner if possible, they are very conscientious on quality and potency of what they sell.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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I don't know what it is, but that silver sol stuff helped me over come pnemonia. Crazy. I thought that alternative medicine thing was bull, but um, I guess not ...



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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I slammed my elbow BAD two years ago. An infection set in. In spite of 1gram of Rocephin daily it was getting worse. I was looking at hospitalization for IV antibiotics, as possible MRSA/cellulitis had set it.

My wife talked to the owner of a local health food/vitamin ship. He recommended silver gel.

I put it on twice a day. Literally in 12 hours the redness and inflammation was down by 50%. Two days later it was all gone.

I'm an RN. And also a proponent of altrnative choices for healing. Doctors do not have all the answers and some of the ones they do have are harmful. Lets all not forget how many people DIE every year fromf the proper use of prescriptions. Thousands.

Just one source: www.alternet.org...



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


Careful bro; Don't use too much logic



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