Is there a Heaven And Hell ? or the worlds greastest lie?

The concept of "Heaven and Hell" existed in ancient cultures from different parts of the world, it doesn't seem to be linked to an specific religion. It actually considers 3 different realms, not 2, including the one where we are living.

I made a thread some time ago about it, I think it might help your search :

"Ancient Concept of The Three Worlds - Realms., "

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can almost taste the fear being perpetuated by those who still believe in the frankly absurd idea of heaven/hell.

It's one of the oldest forms of control that is present across multiple religions and cultures and I for one hope that the majority of intelligent and logical human beings can live out their existence without subscribing to such a ridiculous and archaic concept.

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911



Hello heather, I am a Welshman, i am a celt, our traditions are long, It is only recently that christianity has come here to hold us in a grip of good conscience on pain of eternal living death.
What kind of institution would proclaim, give me your money, your devotion, and, your belief or you shall have an eternal living death?.
If this was a person, we would regard them as a controlling sociopath with delusions of grandeur, and, this is exactly what the church is.
My people were subjugated into a religion, a religion they didn't really need, as the celts were a very civilised and very ordered society in which religion had its place.
The celts believed in reincarnation and their belief was so strong that they would lend money to each other, and the lender would ask, if the debt would be repaid in this life, or, the next life.

Too easily people regard ancient societies as being in some way lacking in comparison to modern society, but, when you look at society in its most basic form, they lived under law, had their own ideas about the world and had their own religion, had a very strong sense of community, when you remove modern technology from the comparison and just look at society, they were in a better position than we are today.

Their is a god like force within the universe, their is a state of being for your mind after death, your thoughts exist outside of time as does the essence of your soul, I find it quite remarkable that almost all the ancient civilisations had the same idea about death and rebirth, Christianity is designed as a "Mind Slave control toolbox" by those people who have the most too lose by you REALISING the true nature of your-self.
so many people in the past wanted to be seen as conforming, the church would have just been another sociological failing without the fear, especially as the inquisition was rampant in europe, in so many ways the church has been responsible for the worst kind of depravations in it's quest to impose it's thought prison upon you.

TL;DR
Don't worry about heaven, it is there for everyone, stop wasting your life worrying about it, this is a school, everyone eventually graduates, some go onto uni, some have to do the final year again, and, again, and again.
Christianity is designed to stop you discovering who and what you really are.
There is a god, it is not you entirely, though, you are a part of it.

Ask yourself, do you really need hell and heaven to do good deeds on earth?

Hell and heaven is merely a concept created by mankind to make people do good deeds and stay away from bad. If you are a good human, you do not need any fear of hell to do good. However, not everyone is good so such concepts are required.

For the believers, keep believing and do good.

Before I explain my opinion, I have a question for you....how did religion ruin your family??
and one more thought before I go...
Matthew 7:7
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

PLPL

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911


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It seems you were reading from the Ancient Sumer text (Annunaki related) and if you have read then some of the data yes makes you think due to it having OFF world influences, but that does not mean they are not real text. As far as you journey the best thing I can recommend is continue researching data you can and also keep an open mind on things and try to interact in the aware 3dimensional zone keeping in mind ALL your deeds will direct your SOUL/SPIRIT/ETERNAL ENERGY up or down HEAVEN or HELL -HIGHER VIBRATING FREQUENCY OR LOWER VIBRATING FREQUENCY-SERVICE TO OTHERS (STO) or SERVICE TO SELF(STS). With that basically what YOU do in this current LIFE and DEATH PHASES of EXISTENCE effects your next PHASE so try to be positive as best you can and encourage others to do so as well.


NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA

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Originally posted by Minori
Before I explain my opinion, I have a question for you....how did religion ruin your family??
and one more thought before I go...
Matthew 7:7
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

PLPL

This is what I would like to know too. How did it ruin your family?

Ask and you will receive is a Universal Law. I am almost 40 and I guess I have been searching like yourself for as long as I can remember. My dad a Catholic, mom a Methodist, and real dad a Methodist preacher. They all told me to search for what I thought was truth. I am still searching.

Its a journey that never ends. There is no need to worry. There is a lot of information out here and I do believe that by asking the Universe for help, I have received an answer in more ways than one. Mostly through my interests which include but not limited to reading and music.

A book cannot give you all the answers in which you ask. A seeker who strives for truth and maintains a healthy balance with life can receive answers on a daily basis though...I know I do.

I believe Jesus was a good man to follow and he surely spoke like he KNEW the creator... this was only 2000 years ago so I do take what he says to heart. You don't have to though...its just "my way".

Good luck on your journey and no matter where you find yourself..don't worry.

Our thoughts exist imo outside of "time" so make sure your intent is always a good one and if its not...really try harder next time. Evil is inside all of us.... we have a battle that goes on 24/7...just try and overcome the tendency.

So...no worries...just happy thoughts. Have a good intent and don't sweat the small stuff. This life will be over before you know it and you will find yourself back home and on your way to another existence of experience. This is eternity after all.

Heaven and Hell in the bible are metaphors, as well as the garden of eden. The garden of eden is the earth as humans received it, which resembled a heavenish paradise. Humans had a choice; care for the earth and preserve it as a heaven, or kill and rape each other while destroying the earth. We all know which choice was made. Heaven and Hell are not actual, physical places you can travel to. When you die all the particles that constitute you will be spread and become parts of other things, if you become a plant its like going to heaven; if you became part of an assault rifle it would be like going to hell. These statements are supported by the repeatable facts of life, quite unlike any of the miracles in the bible. You can't replicate a myth or fantasy, they're ideas that exist ONLY in the minds of humans.

Relax. The "warm and welcoming" messages posted by "true believers" who don't seem all that warm or welcoming are actually threats telling you to buy into their mythology or BURN IN HELL.
To which I say: Balderdash.
If we look into the mists of time, we find that Amenhotep was the first person history tells us was awarded the title "Son of God". And how did good Amenhotep rise to such heights? Well, I'm glad you asked. You see, for some reason Amenhotep built for king Djoser a steps pyramid. It wasn't particularly huge as pyramids go, and it wasn't a refined marvel or an architectual feat like the Egyptian pyramids. No, it was put together much as a cake can be stacked by reducing the size of each new level until there just isn't any good excuse to keep going, unless you want you'r pyramid to end up with a top layer about the size of a square on a chessboard. Amenhotep declared the pyramid finished, and got promoted to "Son Of God". Oh Bother"--Winnie the Pooh.
Ok, amenhotep lived a very long time before Jesus was even a gleam in "God's" eye. Ok, back to the God, Satan, Heaven, and Hell thing. A god who created the planet Terra (earth) would have known there were not four corners on a round object, and certainly was lying when he/she/or it claimed to have placed pillars there to hold up the sky. You know about Eve, the Serpent, and the peach(ok christians say it was an apple, but they lie about lots of stuff). The winged serpent (not Satan, Leviathan). Anyway, Eve we are told said ok, I'll bite, and did. Adam came along and said Eve, are you out of your mind? You know how he is about his "thou shalt nots".Ok, this is a point you'r "Concerned Christians" have wrong. The Serpent was not SATAN, they get this wrong because they don't really know what the bible says, some preacher told them Leviathan was Satan, Preachers lie about a lot of stuff. Remember Noah and the Ark? They put two of every animal on there just like God said, right? Another preacher/christian lie. The bible says, "Seven and Seven shall ye load of them, and two of every unclean thing."
Satan only has four appearances in the entire bible! And then he's paling around with God and Jesus, really screwed with JOB, killed all his kids, wives, and livestock, pretty much just for Spit and giggles.Anyway, god gets all P.O.ed and kicks Adam and Eve out of the garden so they set up houskeeping near a few date trees and a spring, and before long, along come Cain and Able. Now at this point there are Four humans. Not counting all the folks in the land of Nod.WTH? Yeah, all those OTHER people, you know, the ones god didn't make.Anyway the boys met some nice girls and took them home to constantly be critisized by Eve...ok, I made that up, Eve probably wondered Why God got so bent out of shape about them wearing a little hula skirt, when these Shiksas are wearing Burkas. Ok here is something else xians have wrong. Satan was sent to this planet to be The God of This World, that's what it says, God gave Satan this lemonade stand so he could get some experience being God, since big daddy knew he'd get bored with running everything, and Satan thought it looked like a pretty cushy gig. Anyway, he sent 1/3 of the angels down to help with all the God biz, because Satan(still god) had a lot on his plate.
Ok here we go...The whole lake of fire, being tortured forever is another LIE. What the bible says is that bad folks will be cast to the outter darkness and destroyed forever. This sounds pretty okie dokie to me, because here is what ya get to do in heaven which sounds like hell. God sits on a firey Throne, there is freaking fire everywhere, and all you get to do is say "blessed be thy holyness, you are a great guy, we all just love ya to death", and so on forever. This mythical god has a real inadequate personality complex, you have to kiss his hiney all your life, and then for eternity, that or FADE TO BLACK which works for me, God sucks more than christians, that is if there WAS a god.But don't worry, religious zealots have murdered people who weren't buying the myth for thousands of years(and they'd murder you for not believing if they wouldn't get arrested for it). God does not exist, nor does Satan, heaven, or hell. Cristers like to try to point to the gazillion people that bought the B.S. and say all these people can't be wrong. Well they can too, and they are. I rejected religion at age 7, it was scary for about half an hour, after that I just wondered how come there were so many dumbasses, and it dawned on me, they'd been poisoned with mythology from toddlerhood, and were afraid to face reality. So let them put on their pious puckers and condemn me for being a realist, I care not for their empty words. I died twice on the operating table, turned blue and everything. It was like sleeping with no dreams. Nice. The defiblerator sucked though, they used it on me twice in an hour because the anesthetist screwed up my O2 supply. So don't worry be happy!

The bottom line is no one really knows whether Heaven and Hell exist, and if they do exist what form they take. Physical places? Psychological? Spiritual? We don't know. There are people at both extremes that insist they positively know that they do or do not exist, but don't believe them. People who speak with such rigid adherence to absolutes are rarely right. I think MamaJ summed it up nicely when she said that you have to look at this quest of understanding as a lifelong journey that doesn't have a definitive destination (except perhaps at death). The answer isn't in any book or with any other person, it's inside you and that's where you have to spend time looking for the answers. Too many people base their spirituality on what other people tell them it should be, this in a nutshell is "religion" and it's just a system of control. Personally I believe in Christ and I follow His lead as best I can, but I am about the most unreligious person you are likely to run across. I explored various religions and never found the answers I was seeking. For me the answers were in all religions... and none of them. You have to sort it through yourself and it's not easy. Listen to your heart, if you read something or you hear something that doesn't feel right then it probably isn't. God is pure and perfect, and anything that doesn't align with that is not of God. God doesn't want to condemn anyone, he wants all to be saved. So does this mean that there is no Hell and only a Heaven? Probably not, because there are those who would choose not to be with God if/ when given the choice and Hell may simply be "separation from God". IE, many will go to there willingly.

I live in a world full of gods. I am god you are god we are all god. I can create life I can destroy life but so can everyone else. The saddest thing of all is most people are so busy worrying about hell or looking for heaven someplace else they never realize we could have heaven here and now if we just put our minds to it. or by the same logic we could have hell here and now and sadly that is the case more often than not.

Why do we need a god to save us, to make a paradise for us? We have all the tools we need to do it ourselves and if there is a god would he be happy when and if he returns to see us doing so well and living in peace and kindness. To be honest if I put the effort into creating a planet and stocked it well, so my creation could thrive, I would be horrified to see what a mess they made out of it.

We all make our own heaven and hell in the end. If there is a god or not.

Hello. I respect all opinions but I decided to make this my first reply in ATS and will try to be short. I totally agree with John Shelby Spong's opinion. From what I have experienced and learned in a 5 year process (I call it my "Fast Track") I know that neither place exist. Nor the devil or angels. Devil is a creation of man. Angel Guardian is our own higher self. Angels are more evolved beings. Consciousness is erased upon rebirth but spirit's knowledge is kept in DNA when we are embodied into matter (reincarnated). We are eternal in essence but we start falling into account when we gain the right, through hard work with oneself, to enhance our own consciousness. Thank you.

This describes how I feel about it G'kar on truth and God

Heather, I've read through some of the advice on this thread and hope you take this mind # with a grain of salt.
Coming from a family where religion/faith is a business I can see how you would be turned off. Nothing like getting it crammed down your throat.

I am a Catholic, for which some posters consider me spawn of Satan.

Anyway, I would make a rotten evangelist, so I will just say that I care about you and will pray for you. I believe in miracles and in the impossible. Hope you meet you on the other side.

Stay sweet.

God Bless.

Sad eyed lady

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I just want to say thank you and there are a few other worthy replies that indeed helped me. It is unbelievable that some would act so harshly all because I asked for help. People want to know why or how I lost my family because of religion. Why do you want to know? Because you are a sadist that gets off on other peoples pain? I refuse to go there and even after years of therapy, I still have issues. Trust me on that one. To the person who replied to read Vedas, I have. To the ex-cop, I think that I love you because you made me cry. To the ex-minister, if only I could hug you. The others don't seem to grasp what I am asking. I do not want their beliefs shoved down my throat because I have gone through that enough. I was interested in viewing intelligent responses that would make me search further. I love that there is still good in people just from reading a few responses. Thank you so very much.

Heaven and hell are constructs of the mind. Heaven is what you make it and hell is what you go threw. The bible even says numerous times that the temple of heaven is found within self. He also says my fathers house has many mansions (I hope you all understand that). Hell is what many are suffering from on this planet now. Some are living like kings and queens which would be considered heaven to them. You gotta go through hell to get to heaven. They aren't mystery places you'll go to after you die. The body also says you can't return from a physical death so I don't see why people are waiting for something after anyway. Create your heaven right here as the bible says. Peace

Originally posted by miniatus
In the old testament the word that has been mistranslated into our current definition of hell, actually meant nothing more than "Grave" .. The Jewish people ( Jesus was a Jew.. just saying ) have no belief in a hell, nor did they in the time of Jesus.. Jesus himself had no concept of hell, nor did his followers.. The Jewish faith has no concept of eternal punishent / damnation because they view God as a forgiving God... they believe, and it's part of the old Testament.. that you will be punished in the afterlife.. but that's about it.. there is no eternal damnation, or lake of fire.. there is no Hell ..

Why is this important? .. because those same texts are the basis for the Christian bible.. MEN added onto a mistranslation of a word..expanded greatly this incorrect concept and made it into a thing it never was.

In other words,the main point - "might be punished in the afterlife is still there",just probably not as bad as hell.Btw,what about Day of Resurrection???

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911


Heaven and Hell is what you make it. Ofcourse depending on your perception of the "divine matrix" I could be wrong.

What I have come to understand is. There is a duality in everything. You can enjoy something you were told your not supposed to. And you can absolutely hate something you are told by society you are supposed to.

It's all a matter of perception. How do you percieve the world around you? Soul search and come up with your own answers. There is not a man or woman alive who can tell you their is no heaven or hell.

The answer lies within you because in the end you could be the one creating this matrix. So make it what you want of it.

On the other hand though. What is one mans hell is anothers heaven!

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911

if I am going to grasp God and be so faithful and so devoted to that being, then I wanted to know what exactly I was doing.

I think there is only a hell, and the other thing, heaven, is a way to describe a spiritual world.
Think of a spirit broken up into parts, that were the product of creation and that "God" is a bigger piece of something similar to those smaller pieces that are a constituent of each of us.
God is our shepherd who watches out for us and he directs us to care for what together makes something like an equivalent of Himself, which is the others of our kind.
Hell is the natural physical universe that tends to collect things including souls, seeing how we are a natural component of that universe. God can rescue us from hell, being pure spirit, though it is a little work and maybe not something He would be too readilly inclined to do, and may let nature take its course if you are especially bad.

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911


The reason such questions surface is because man gives his existence too much meaning, no man can tell you if there is or isn't a heaven or hell, no man can fathom the endlessness of eternity in the small grain that is the human mind, the problem is one begins to question, once there you are lost, as soon as you think that there is an "answer" then you will never be a part of reality or have any grasp on the concept of truth. If you know that you cannot know then a small billionth of a fraction of the whole of reality is yours, once you begin trying to picture it with your small human mind or try to describe with human sound waves (language which is the most weak form of communication the greatest being understanding) then you are a part of the big illusion that is the speaking of god, once people began talking about what their creator was, and questioning, we forever lost all hope of knowing truth, humans give themselves too much credit for existence, we are dust, parasite, a grain of sand in the ocean of reality, nothing our earth minds can conjure can paint what reality is. There is a creator of all, but what "it" is why it's created what it has, no human words, picture, or book can tell you, if your looking for answers on this tiny insignificant celestial plane then you are already lost. Know that your mind cannot know, know that your mind is small and insignificant and weak and has not the capacity to fathom reality, and you have blessed yourself with a tiny fragment of truth