The hidden history leading up to WWII

Recently I have been researching the events leading up to WWII, and the origins of Germanys aggression. While it is hard to find any good accurate information, I have found some interesting info, and would like some expansion on this topic and some verification.
From what I am reading, it seems that certain groups, France, Russia, and some others were busy building up forces upon germany's borders since the end of WWI. While many pieces of Germany were parceled off after WWI, and the german citizens there were being oppressed by their new rulers, some of the western powers were waiting hungrily for the chance to snag more.
Also, well prior to any german oppression or massacres of jews, many newspapers from around the world call on the jews to unite in a war upon germany, cutting them off economically, and even further condemning the germans to poverty in a time that they were sorely burdened by the reparations demanded of them.
On top of this, from what I am reading, the germans at the time were afraid of the unequal representation the jewish groups maintained in many governments, fearing the power displayed by them in the Bolshevik revolution, as well as the attempts to spread Bolshevism to other nations. They were also very angry with the jewish germans for their role in organizing the naval revolt near the end of WWI, which they blame for them losing the war.
It also is mentioned in several places that Nazi Germany and the Zionists of the time had made a pact to influence jewish populations to move to Israel and try to establish a state there.
So, what veracity is there to all this, as its not something I've ever seen in school, or even in any books I've seen. Can someone verify and/or expand upon this? It is all extremely interesting, and if anyone could recommend any good books dealing with this period, and the issues and mindset of the germans during this time (not just the garbage official story bunk), it would be much appreciated.

I would love to give you my thoughts on isreal, ww1, ww2 and the upcoming ww3 but due to the pre-crime law and being called anti-semetic I will refrain, some topics I have learned are ABOVE TOP SECRET. what I will say is this follow the money he who controls the money controls the world (for now) you will see who is in charge.................
since when does a foreign state dictate acts of war or aggression against another without reprisal or un intervention again I say follow the money all conflicts should be resolved without military involvement but then how would they justify there budgets
the ego's of the ones in power is so out of control they care only for the bottom line they care only for there diplomactic relation and income generated from any conflict. look at who gains in any of the world wars and you will finally see the faces of TPTB
I have probubly said to much or not enough you decide.....................

As far as my grandparents were willing to unveil their motives of that time (they were teens in 1933), there was this huge movement of rising patriotism, fed by legends like this.

It didn't matter if they believed those stories at first, as even rational thinkers were overwhelmed by the sheer emotion of coming from a time of intense depression to a time when Hitler started to give the people jobs by building autobahnen and other massive public projects.

These people were depressed, by poverty and media. The government was weak and bound by several internal and external anchors, giving them only small amounts of free powers. Then came someone like Hitler, shouting loud, being a very charismatic speaker to the masses. He had the opportunity to have a walk-over the existing boundaries of the previous government by calling them manacles and obstacles against the fulfillment of the peoples wantings.

Those were words falling on a primed field. The people were anxious to follow a man promising them new wonders (aka jobs and more self-respect than a beaten war-loser had in that time). At first they didn't care about his book or some parts of his speaks (like jews being the source of all evil befallen on Germany at that time, and so on), taking more of the optimistic and patriotic gist.

Later, it was too late. They took the bad with the worse, were patriotic and increasingly hostile against Jews. This led to the well-known start of the Third Reich, as far as I was told by my ancestors.

I had a grandfather who was in the Waffen-SS, today I'm quite sad that I didn't use the opportunity to ask him about his views on that time - on the other hand, we cleared out his house after his death and let me say it this way: most of the found books and manuscripts were far too ugly to keep or even dispose of them by selling to "collectors". We threw them away and even I, a live-long enthusiastic reader of all kinds of books, didn't want to keep a single one of them. They were the ugliest, racist crap you can imagine (no pornography, sry ).

There were those people in Germany at that time, too.

Most of what we've been told about WWII and hitler in general is a lie.

With all due respect I think you need to read an awful lot more about World War One and World War Two. You are deducing things in an extremely misguided manner. France and Britain did indeed occupy parts of the Rhineland after World War 2, but this is perfectly logical. As for World War One Germany, for many reasons (though I can't say they were justified), embarked on a war of aggression - one that obliterated much of northern France (not to mention most of Belgium). The cost, in terms of men, equipment, infrastructure, moral and money to the Allies, mainly France, Britain (plus it's Empire), Russia, Belgium, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand was immense. Americans normally do not comprehend World War One as they played a very small and late part in it (their fresh troops simply helped overwhelm a Germany already weakened by almost 4 years of the most brutal conflict). Thus I don't think it is exactly out of order that the allies, especially France, wanted to beef up security on the borders.

If you look at inter-war planning you will also see that French strategy and defence spending was entirely focused on a defensive strategy, hence the building of the Maginot line at such massive expense. This is also one of the main reasons why Germany defeated France so easily in 1940, because the French were not prepared for a mobile conflict or to take the initiative and strike Germany in 1939 when they were still deployed against Poland. British defence spending plummeted during the inter-war years. So your observations with regards to the western allies' military dispositions after World War One are entirely wrong.

As for the German Naval 'rebellions'. Again you are completely wrong. They were more like strikes or mutinies born out of frustration - nothing more sinister. The German fleet, with the exception of the u-boats, spent most of it's time anchored in harbours, trapped by the Royal Navy's blockade. They did attempt to take on the Royal Navy in a fleet action at the Battle of Jutland, but besides that they had a very inactive war. The sailors were simply fed up sitting there in harbour. Cramped, bored and feeling like they should be doing something. It is only to be expected there was trouble. In reality the strikes and mutinies had almost no effect on the outcome of the war as the German high seas fleet would have been obliterated by the Royal Navy if it had of tried to take them on again (at Jutland the Germans did well ship-for-ship, but they had no reserves to replace their losses, whereas the Royal Navy had more than enough reserves).

In terms of your Nazi- Zionist plans for an Israeli state? Well, there were discussions before World War 2 in some Nazi circles about setting up a Jewish state in Madagascar if the Germans could secure it and manage to transport the Jews there, but it was not a popular or viable plan. People who insinuate that the Nazis and Jews had any kind of mutual discussions about a Jewish state being formed are absolutely ignorant of events. Some Jews did collaborate with the Germans for sure, such as the leaders of the Polish Ghettos, but only under duress and to try to prolong their existence in the face of certain death.

Tying the Jews into a big Bolshevik conspiracy is absurd, though it seems the idea is attractive to many misguided Americans especially. There were plenty of Jews in the Bolshevik movement - but this is hardly surprising to anyone with the slightest knowledge of European history. The 'Pale of Settlement' was focused on the Polish, Ukranian, western Russian and Baltic States. Western Russia was the industrial heartland of Russia (it was not until after the German invasion in 1941 that Stalin re-located Russian industry to the east), and where the vast majority of the workers were - the exact people who were fed up with the Tsarist regime, and who bore the brunt of the horrors of World War One. These were the people who were ripe for revolution and looking for an alternative in the Russian revolutions prior to WW1 and the 1917 revolution.

I could go on, but I don't have time - I suggest you just spend a few years reading history before making such absurd judgements.

reply to post by pexx421


I can guess what sort of sources you have been reading. I suggest you read Barbara Tuchman's "The Proud Tower" to understand what Europe was like on the eve of the First World War. Once you understand the depth of the destruction of the old order, you can begin to appreciate the desperation and cultural confusion that led to the Second World War. Germany was driven by a search for meaning, legitimacy and revenge. The Allies imposed post-war reparations that fueled these feelings. Fortunately, the Marshall Plan, the dismemberment of Germany and the threat of Soviet imperialism served to prevent a third round after World War II. Acquire some basic historical facts before swallowing revanchist propaganda.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by pexx421

 

I can guess what sort of sources you have been reading. I suggest you read Barbara Tuchman's "The Proud Tower" to understand what Europe was like on the eve of the First World War. Once you understand the the depth of the destruction of the old order, you can begin to appreciate the desperation and cultural confusion that led to the Second World War. Germany was driven by a search for meaning, legitimacy and revenge. The Allies imposed post-war reparations that fueled these feelings. Fortunately, the Marshall Plan, the dismemberment of Germany and the threat of Soviet imperialism served to prevent a third round after World War II. Acquire some basic historical facts before swallowing revanchist propaganda.

Can someone verify and/or expand upon this?

How is the guy swallowing anything?

Seems like you are the one that swallows.

You are rude too.

reply to post by theubermensch

How is the guy swallowing anything?

Seems like you are the one that swallows.

You are rude too.

He asked for verification, not refutation. He wants to believe. Rather than attack me for suggesting that he find more detailed, well footnoted sources to understand European history in the first half of the twentieth century, why don't you encourage him to do some more research as well. Feel free to suggest sources you feel would be helpful to that end. I'll let others decide who is being rude.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by pexx421
[.

I can guess what sort of sources you have been reading. I suggest you read Barbara Tuchman's "The Proud Tower" to understand what Europe was like on the eve of the First World War. Once you understand the depth of the destruction of the old order, you can begin to appreciate the desperation and cultural confusion that led to the Second World War. Germany was driven by a search for meaning, legitimacy and revenge. The Allies imposed post-war reparations that fueled these feelings. Fortunately, the Marshall Plan, the dismemberment of Germany and the threat of Soviet imperialism served to prevent a third round after World War II. Acquire some basic historical facts before swallowing revanchist propaganda.

edit on 6-3-2012 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

The Jewish declaration of war on Germany didn't help those feelings either

reply to post by pexx421


i feel frustrated.
this is an interesting OP
unfortunately - as i think Wittgenstein was right - i have to shut up, due to a lack of insights
therefor i will be very curious to see what comes up here.
and i would like to ask those who do have relevant information to provide context: books, authors, links...

in times like ours, now, we can benefit from learning from history
thanks!

Well, from what I understand, and I may be off here, but Germany had a mutual defense treaty with austria, and so when Ferdinand was assasinated by serbians, and austria declared war with serbia, germany went along with their pact to aid austria. Accepting that germany might have been intentionally escalating the issue.
Then the french, brittain, and others got tied into the war through their mutual protection agreements, and it all became a maelstrom of countries drawn in by treaties.
At any rate, im not making judgements, just trying to find out what really went on. Yes, I can see that americans have misunderstandings about the history there, because history in american education is extremely lacking, with so much not covered or misrepresented. As I have stated many times, most americans have no clue about their own wars, from vietnam and korea, to the current wars we are involved in. Most americans even today cant name three countries that we are engaging hostilities in, and they cant even give you a real reason we went into iraq. Hell, most even have no clue about OBL's history, having no knowledge about our training or support of him and his mujahadeen during the cold war.

Two books worth reading the unloved Germans by Hermann Eich, Macdonald London, and The Nazis a warning from history by laurence Rees BBC books.
I read somewhere Hitler got really agitated about the Poles treatment of ethnic Germans living on the polish/German frontier after repeated requests by Hitler to the Polish government to stop the harrasment failed, he (Hitler) decided to use that as one more excuse to invade Poland there are unconfirmed reports of mass graves on the polish side of the frontier, as yet, after many years, they are still unconfirmed. ()No I dont love the nazi's, just read a lot of history)

Oh, another question. From what I understand, and I may be off here as well, Jewish groups started clamoring for a jewish war against germany well before german oppression of the jews... What was the motive here? Why were these groups so strongly against the german nation? Was germany at that time (I believe it was right as Hitler took power....maybe same time he was TIME's man of the year) much more oppressive of its jews than any of the other european nations?

Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by DJW001
The Jewish declaration of war on Germany didn't help those feelings either

do you have sources for this act?
Would love to learn more

Oh, and uh, make no mistake, guys. I am far from a nazi lover. I am taoist, and pacifist, and dont believe in violence or judgement of any sort, including racism, as I find we are all of one race. I am just trying to find as much truth as I can of history....as you can imagine, its quite an ambitious goal.

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by DJW001
The Jewish declaration of war on Germany didn't help those feelings either

do you have sources for this act?
Would love to learn more

www.wintersonnenwende.com...

It's also on Wikipedia and the Jews against zionism website

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by theubermensch

 

How is the guy swallowing anything?

Seems like you are the one that swallows.

You are rude too.

He asked for verification, not refutation. He wants to believe. Rather than attack me for suggesting that he find more detailed, well footnoted sources to understand European history in the first half of the twentieth century, why don't you encourage him to do some more research as well. Feel free to suggest sources you feel would be helpful to that end. I'll let others decide who is being rude.

One of Hitlers favourite subjects was History. He said in Mein Kampf that boring dates are not impotant,that the stuff between the lines is what is important. Maybe you are reading between different lines.

I would suggest Mein Kampf would be a good place to start. Hitler's perspective on Germany after WW1 is important.

sleeping eyes, there are many easy to find pictures of the newspapers from march of 1943, and many others calling for jews of the world to boycott german goods in order to further cripple their economy. Im wondering why.

I am trying to do research....sadly, the problem is so much of it is BS. I went to the WWII museum here in new orleans....and it was more like a feel good american propaganda palace. It seems there that we went in to win the war for the rest of the world. No mention of the 20 million russian soldiers who died. No mention of the Japanese concentration camps here in the US. When searching online about WWII, almost all the info is the battles, very little about before the war. Further, most of it seems pretty biased.

The US entry into the war is presented like that of a wounded giant unfairly wronged, when it seems actually that we were already planning to move b-52's into the pacific prior to pearl harbor. Thats forgetting the fact that many US groups (including the Bush family) seem to have been supplying the nazi's even after war was declared.

Also little mention of the fact that the western powers engaged in much more brutal civilian targeted campaigns, such as in Dresden, than the germans did. Its all a lot to take in, and there are so many conflicting sources....I come here for differing voices, because thats what ats is! If i was truly just looking for someone to agree with me, I would have told my girlfriend.

reply to post by pexx421

First,it is very good that you choose to learn things and invest the time. Knowing history is pretty important in order to feel the zeitgeist,so to speak.
Here is what i can add to the thread:

From what I am reading, it seems that certain groups, France, Russia, and some others were busy building up forces upon germany's borders since the end of WWI. While many pieces of Germany were parceled off after WWI, and the german citizens there were being oppressed by their new rulers, some of the western powers were waiting hungrily for the chance to snag more.

France had no intention to take any land from Germany after WW1. Actually France was so shellshocked by that war that its public was very anti-military and French (France was considered superpower,to remind you) short and non convincing performance in WW2 is the good indicator of this.
Independent Russia did not exist at the period, it was Soviet Union - international Communist state by definition. There was no border between Germany and Soviet Union so no direct invasion threat in the beginning of Nazi rule, Hitler and Stalin created that border by cutting up Poland in 1939. After that Soviet Union indeed increased its military presence on Western borders so Hitler really had no choice. But he placed Germany in this mud himself ,nobody forced him to attack Poland and engage in war with Britain and France plus getting agressive Soviet Union as a direct neighbour.

Also, well prior to any german oppression or massacres of jews, many newspapers from around the world call on the jews to unite in a war upon germany, cutting them off economically, and even further condemning the germans to poverty in a time that they were sorely burdened by the reparations demanded of them.

From what i know there was 1 newpspaper article titled "Judea declares war on Germany" describing Jewish boycotts on German products. It was written by non-Jewish journalist in non-Jewish newspaper and is the responsibility of the author only. Lots of Jewish organisations worldwide declared boycott on Germany,true. But there is a difference in declaring boycott and declaring war. Also,as you stated yourself - there were Jewish organisations heavily trading with Germany (Haavara agreement) so it was not a full boycott anyway.
Example for clarification:
Lots of Arab organisations declared boycott on Israeli products. Is it war and Israel should send nukes in all directions? Or it isn't war only because some attention-seeking non-Arab journalist did not write flashy "Arabs declare war on Israel" title?

On top of this, from what I am reading, the germans at the time were afraid of the unequal representation the jewish groups maintained in many governments, fearing the power displayed by them in the Bolshevik revolution, as well as the attempts to spread Bolshevism to other nations. They were also very angry with the jewish germans for their role in organizing the naval revolt near the end of WWI, which they blame for them losing the war.

Some Germans felt threatened by Jews in power positions, some were threatened by lots of Jews among German Communists, some blamed Jews in defeat in WW1.
This is all true. Nethertheless, the developments clearly showed that German Jews did not have such powers because Hitler took control and easily took lots of Jewish civil rights. If Jews controled Germany it would not have happened.
German Communists never gained strong support in Germany and all attempts at violent revolutions (in one attempt Hitler and his party joined the Communists against the government. Funny world,isn't it?) failed.
WW2 without German Jews "stabbing the Germany at the back" ended even worse for Germany then the WW1 did.
Hope it helps.
Just please remeber, existence of official story "junk" does not mean that all non-official history isn't crap.