Boys Don't Cry 2: The Gemma Barker Story?

The schoolgirl victims of a teenage girl who dressed as a boy to date them told of their pain yesterday as their deceiver was jailed for two-and-a-half years.
The pair, aged 15 and 16, believed they had found the perfect boyfriends in Connor McCormack and Aaron Lampard - who they believed were their age.

But their worlds collapsed when they realised that Connor and Aaron were not only the same person, but were in fact their friend Gemma Barker.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

This story has been doing the rounds in a bunch of sites, and reminds me a lot of the film 'boys don't cry'.

I've found it very interesting on the basis that some ATS members point to how #gender persons are treated with kid gloves or 'opted' for special rights. Gemma Barker is recieving a sentence numbered in years (30 month custodial) I just hope there are the facilities to deal with the person in prison.

Anyone that fractures their own jaw to maintain a deception that isn't life threatening really needs some help. I don't doubt what happened is very wrong, but just can't help but feel there's a whole ice cream truck of things going on here that aren't being noticed. Especially that Gemma actually managed to convince so many different people with manipulations. Gemma was 19 at the time of the offenses.

The judge's comments were particularly interesting to me.

Nothing that you have ever said to any expert or the police sheds any light on, or provides any understanding of, your motivation for these offences.

To me, it appears pretty obvious what is happening! Though I guess the judge may have been focusing on testimony and not assumptions. I suppose it's hard to see past some of the really stupid and irresponsible things that have gone on here. I'd suggest though that this is really good evidence of the law not being soft or overly politically correct with the mentally ill.

I sometimes admire people with a black and white view of the world, because it makes events like this so much easier to judge and walk away from. I feel for everyone involved. If it was a movie, I wouldn't believe it and not sure I do at this point either.

reply to post by Pinke


She has issues and she needs help, of that there can be no doubt.

However, she also appears to be (can't say is as the trial is on going) extremely manipulative and will do what she wants in order to get her own way.

As such, a custodial sentence is the only appropriate response.

This was the first I have heard about this. All I can say is ...wtf.

Personally, I believe that FaceBook is getting out of hand. Everything from criminal activity to cheating spouses somehow FB seems to be involved in some degree. I know it's not FB's fault but it seems that everyone and I mean everyone has a FB page and it is being used to commit all types of crimes against persons.

I've found it very interesting on the basis that some ATS members point to how #gender persons are treated with kid gloves or 'opted' for special rights.

The pair, aged 15 and 16, believed they had found the perfect boyfriends in Connor McCormack and Aaron Lampard - who they believed were their age.

But their worlds collapsed when they realised that Connor and Aaron were not only the same person, but were in fact their friend Gemma Barker.

Guildford Crown Court heard how Barker, 20, duped the girls, their parents and police by wearing baggy clothes, hats and speaking in a deeper voice.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Kid gloves indeed, if a 20 year old guy was talking to 15 year old boys and trying to sleep with them we would be reading a different story.

reply to post by Pinke


How in the # does this remind you of "Boys don't cry"?

Brandon Teena was raped and murdered by two low life thugs. He was not the rapist or the molester. It's pretty sick that you would even suggest that.

Originally posted by mikelkhall
Personally, I believe that FaceBook is getting out of hand. Everything from criminal activity to cheating spouses somehow FB seems to be involved in some degree.

I'm not sure this is anything to do with facebook; this particular spectacle was occurring long before facebook was ever invented. Though I agree the internet does afford various opportunities.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
Kid gloves indeed, if a 20 year old guy was talking to 15 year old boys and trying to sleep with them we would be reading a different story.

Actually ... 29.5 months is a fairly average sentence in most places for intercourse with a minor. Also these sentences for first time offenders with no prior record are often suspended depending on circumstances etc ... In fact, you would likely find a male relationship would have been considerably more intrusive, and any number of lies told by the male in question wouldn't have been classified as fraud.

To be honest, these things vary from country to country and state to state but many reports wouldn't agree with you at all. Though I imagine some instances would ... it would require much more space than we have here to discuss.

Most defendants avoid prison entirely, although statutory rape is punishable by up to 5 years. Only 20.2 percent of persons who were originally charged only with statutory rape and then convicted were incarcerated. In cases where statutory rape was one of a number of charges, only 37 percent were incarcerated on statutory rape charges.

Source

Gemma Barker is within norms and arguably being treated harshly here. Intercourse was not involved.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Pinke

 

How in the # does this remind you of "Boys don't cry"?

Brandon Teena was raped and murdered by two low life thugs. He was not the rapist or the molester. It's pretty sick that you would even suggest that.

In most ways...

Brandon Teena wasn't a perfect lifed martyr, but an inevitable beacon of warning of what happens when you throw a person under the rail tracks of misfortune.

* One of Brandon's first kisses was with a 13 year old in 1990. Brandon was around 18 at the time. Gemma Barker was 19. This isn't out of place with stats in many countries. With hindsight this could be seen as somewhat inevitable. A teenage woman often passes as a younger teenager boy, and therefore attracts younger girls. This was a serial behaviour for Brandon. Gemma Barker is no more a rapist than Brandon Teena is. In fact, they're both somewhat the same.

* Brandon had intercourse with a person who wasn't aware of all the facts surrounding the person's situation. Gemma Barker did not have intercourse, but did have physical contact.

* Brandon repeatedly came up with various reasons and explanations for behaviour which were technically untrue, including medical conditions. Gemma Barker has done the same. Brandon also was known to make elaborate back stories for 'characters'.

* Brandon was expelled from a Catholic school, and was also known for having low grades, truancy (to explore gender more) and had several legal issues. Gemma Barker was classed as ADHD which implies difficulty in school also.

* Brandon's mother never approved of the lifestyle, and also had some severe issues with the film biography. I don't know Gemma Barker's parents opinion on this

The parallels and the results are fairly obvious from my perspective. Victims aren't nice people. You take a person and box them into a corner they do not become nice people. You try to force someone onto some rail tracks to be something they're not eventually they're going to rebel and, without the proper support, they're going to do so in a very destructive way.

No one can know for certain, but it's very possible that Gemma Barker's reluctance to explain the situation to legal authorities is everything to do with the last remaining support the person has which would be family. After been caught in a situation like this, I can't imagine saying to parents ... oh btw I'm also transsexual ... is going to improve the situation particularly.

In a perfect world victims would be victims and evil people would be evil. Unfortunately, unlike most movies, victims are alcoholics, liars, drug users, and many other things under the sun and they don't fix themselves after a two hour presentation and a small journey. Brandon Teena's life story was somewhat sanitised

I suspect most people aren't really prepared for reality. Terrorists aren't always evil, the 'thugs' that killed Brandon probably thought it was right , George Bush probably honestly believes he was doing the right thing and, likely, there is more to Gemma Barker than you think.

reply to post by Pinke


Right..

Brandon Teena wasn't perfect.. However in this given situation you're comparing a rape victim to the rapist. I can't honestly speak to whether or not Gemma Barker is a transsexual man. However, I would say based on her appearance, she likely is not. (Honestly, compare the two side by side. Brandon looks like a male, Gemma looks completely feminine.)

Gemma's intent seems to have just been to go out and seek sex with a minor. Brandon's intent? To live as a male. Not calling him a martyr or any such thing.. But he was raped and murdered. To compare him to a girl who molested younger girls? It's still fairly twisted.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Pinke

 

However, I would say based on her appearance, she likely is not. (Honestly, compare the two side by side. Brandon looks like a male, Gemma looks completely feminine.)

By the time you saw Brandon Teena the person had many years of experience living as a man. Trans people aren't generally born looking a particular way.

Gemma's intent seems to have just been to go out and seek sex with a minor. Brandon's intent? To live as a male.

Brandon repeatedly sought out attention from teenage women. Gemma Barker didn't actually have intercourse with anyone or 'rape' in the way you're implying unless I'm missing something. Sexual assault in some countries also refers to statutory rape which is something both Brandon Teena and Gemma Barker both did. From what I have read, Gemma Barker did not commit aggravated sexual assault or physically force. She did say she wanted to be the best boyfriend possible. I don't know if that counts as wanting to be a male or not, only Gemma could answer that question.

This places Barker in the same bracket as Brandon Teena.

Not calling him a martyr or any such thing.. But he was raped and murdered. To compare him to a girl who molested younger girls? It's still fairly twisted.

By your definition, if you still go by it after this statement ... Brandon Teena did the exact same thing.

It is in no way close to the boys don't cry story, get over it.

reply to post by Pinke


Generally you have to try.

I know trans people aren't born looking as the gender they mentally are. However, Gemma doesn't show any bit of it. No shorter hair cut, looks like she wears make up, female clothing. It's more likely she just pretended to be male to get closer to a younger girl. It's a bit extreme for me to call her a rapist. But, she did deceive two younger girls have some form of sex with them. I'd question her knowledge of whether it was wrong, as the article did say she has some form of ASD.

It's still almost nothing like the story of Boys Don't Cry, other than that Gemma dressed up as a male and had sexual relations with a younger girl.

Originally posted by Miraj
I know trans people aren't born looking as the gender they mentally are. However, Gemma doesn't show any bit of it. No shorter hair cut, looks like she wears make up, female clothing. It's more likely she just pretended to be male to get closer to a younger girl.

Medical science actually abandoned this concept quite a while ago in most places.

It used to be a trans person had to spend an amount of time living (cross dressing) as the opposing gender before being given certain forms of treatment. This was following the same logic being followed now. It resulted in an increase of suicides and ineffective treatment. Where I live at least the first step of 'trying' is seeking both medical and friendship help prior to rash or destructive actions.

I won't really continue the debate from here, but a good few trans people do tend to start by trying to pass tentatively and in secret until they grow in confidence. Thanks for your input.