Ancient Civilizations in Australia

Hello my fellow ATSers,
How many of you know about the ancient civilizations of Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and even the Americas? My guess is you already know a fair bit, but there is one continent that is always left out from ancient history. Australia is however, the last place most of us think of when we talk about ancient civilizations, but that doesn't mean Australia didn't have any.
I've created this thread to hopefully shed some light on Australia's mysterious past from 40,000 B.C to 1600 A.D.
Please S@F, and comment.


WANDJINA

In Aboriginal mythology, the Wandjina were spirits (possibly aliens) who existed during the Dreamtime. They were said to have created the landscape and its inhabitants. The Wandjina are portrayed as being white skinned beings with only two eyes surrounded by a red, black, and yellow headdress.
Cave paintings of the Wandjina are found in the Kimberley region of north west Australia with some over 30,000 years old. One thing is for sure though, the current Aboriginals are not the original painters of the Wandjina. Traditional Aboriginal painting begins 15,000 - 10,000 years ago which included things like animal paintings. Whilst the Wandjina were painted by a much older people around 30,000 years ago, who are presumed to have come from the Indonesian archipelago.

One very interesting legend from around the Uluru region claims that the ancestors of todays Aborigines came from the stars. When during the Dreamtime, a great red coloured egg (spaceship?) came down from the skies and crashed. Out of it emerged white-skinned-culture-heroes (gods) and their children. The childrens elders soon died, but the children managed to adapt and survive. They painted their parents images on cave walls to perpetuate their memory. The children grew in numbers until they eventually populated the whole land, their skins turning black due to the hot climate.

While some claim the Wandjina are ancient astronauts, others have suggested they were in fact Egyptian and Phoenician seafarers who may have landed on the Kimberley coastline during the South East Asian trading expeditions over 3,000 years ago. Archaeologists have pointed out the similarities in the garments of the Wandjina to those of early middle eastern seamen. This possibility is further supported by the presence of middle eastern blood groups, racial features, and Egyptian words used among local Aboriginal tribes. Which brings us to our next topic, the Egyptians.


EGYPTIANS

There is plenty of evidence for the Egyptians having both visited and even colonised Australia. At the height of the Bronze Age [2000 - 1400 B.C] the Pharaohs of Egypt were dispatching often enormous fleets, loaded with miners and their families, into the Indian Ocean. Just how far these mining expeditions consisting of Egyptians, Phoenicians, Libyans, Celts, and others sailed is a mystery to historians. Yet there is plenty of evidence to show that these ancient fleets penetrated beyond the Torres Strait, to explore eastern Australia.

Stretching all the way back to the 19th Century, there have been Eyptian artifacts uncovered all across the continent. Pyriamids have been discovered at Cape York, another at Gympie, with more located througout Queensland and NSW, as well as the mythical pyriamid structure located near Uluru.

There have also been Egyptian heiroglyphics, sun dials, and temple ruins in NSW as well as Egyptian artifacts like axes, jewelry, and statues such as the Gympie Ape.
In one instance between Captain Cook and an Aboriginal warrior, in an unfriendly situation was totally diffused when certain masonic hand signs were recognized by both groups.
In Egypt mummies have been found with traces of eucalyptus oil within the cloth. The only place in the world where eucalyptus trees are endemic to is Australia which more or less proves the Egyptians at least visited ancient Australia.

CHINESE

There is also a large amount of evidence to suggest that the Chinese had knowledge and even colonies in Australia. This might not come as much of a surprise seeming how close China and Australia both are.

In 1961, a 2000 year old vase with a crude map of the Australian eastern coastline was discovered in Hong Kong.
Another map dating 2000 years old was found in Taiwan, and showed the eastern coastline as far south as the Melbourne area: as well as the crude outline of northern Tasmania.
In the 1970s a jade Budha was unearthed near Cooktown in far North Queensland.
In 1879, workmen at Darwin dug up a statue of Shou Lao, the Chinese god of longevity, from deep down beneath the roots of an ancient Banyan tree.
An ancient Chinese vessel was found off the coast of Perth several years ago which later proved to be from the 12th Century.
Many more artifacts have been found to be of Chinese origin including coins, cups, swords, etc. Some Aboriginal tribes also speak of "yellow men" visiting them well before the first fleet.
To add further to the proof that the Chinese knew of Australia, in 338 B.C there were severl kangaroos being kept at the Imperial Palace Zoo in Peking.
In 2003, Chinese President Hu Jintao opened his address to the Australian parliament by claiming China had settled Australia sometime in the 15th Century.

GREEKS

Fragments of records speak of ancient Greek voyages to a mysterious southern continent. About 300 B.C Iambulus set sail from Somaililand for the "happy land of the south" said to lie across the Indian Ocean. On his return he described how he reached an unknown land.
A Roman map of India dating from 70 A.D describes islands below India which could represent Sri Lanka, Sumatra, Java, and Australia.
The Roman map makers seem to have been well aware of the southern continent, no doubt through the assisstance of Greek geographers. Lucian of Samosata (120 - 180 A.D) was a Syrian-Greek writer who wrote of a distant southern land occupied by savages, and where the young of animals were carried in pouches.
Other evidence for Greek and Roman exploration and possibly colonisation exist with ancient coins found in regions of Victoria and NSW.

PORTUGUESE/SPANISH

Various Latin inscriptions have been found all over the east coast of Australia and in 1936 a 16th Century Spanish helmet was dug up near a river in Sydney.
In 1968, workmen digging a deep trench unearthed at a depth of 3 metres, a dozen of old Spanish Dubloons. Several ancient fig trees and a cork tree native to Southern Europe were found to predate the first fleet.
In 1953, a resident from Sydney discovered a Spanish rapier with silver embossed hilt.
In Victoria, a 500 year old Spanish wine jar was brought up in a fishermans net. Local skindivers claim there is an ancient Spanish galleon nearby.
Along the NSW coast, are the ruins of a stone fort along with Latin engravings and a date marked 1524. A Spanish breastplate has also been dug up from near the fort.
During Captain Cooks 1770 voyage, he is said to have seen the remains of a wrecked Spanish galleon. But he soft-peddled the fact on his return to England as it indicated a pre-British expedtition to Australia.
And just last month a 500 year old Portuguese swivel gun was dug up on a Darwin beach.

There is evidence of other civilizations being present in Australia such as the Mayans but I didn't want to go into them. I personally find it strange how negative archaeologists and historians are when it comes to ancient Australia. Thanks for reading and tell me what you know.

Excellent post my friend - star and a flag for you.
There has been a lack of archaeological research into the far-reaches of Australia but a lot of that is to do with the Aboriginal Elders protecting their 'burial sites' and ancient 'holy sites'. Also, there has been much exploitation of Aboriginal Paintings were some of the techniques passed down over centuries has been used to create wonderful examples only to be paid a mere pittance for their work which has sold for thousands and thousands of dollars.
You can understand the Elders lack of co-operation.

reply to post by OzTiger


Thanks for your comment and S@F.
I agree with what you said though, to me it feels like ancient Australian history has been shunned by historians. Most Australians think our history only goes back to 1788, but if my above post is right the history books need to be rewritten.
I also agree on your remarks with the Aboriginals. During the 2nd world war when Darwin was under attack some servicemen raided the sacred sites of Aboriginals taking what is believed to be "bones from giant humanoids".
So I can understand why they no longer want people near the remaining sites.

"CHINESE

There is also a large amount of evidence to suggest that the Chinese had knowledge and even colonies in Australia. This might not come as much of a surprise seeming how close China and Australia both are.

In 1961, a 2000 year old vase with a crude map of the Australian eastern coastline was discovered in Hong Kong.
Another map dating 2000 years old was found in Taiwan, and showed the eastern coastline as far south as the Melbourne area: as well as the crude outline of northern Tasmania.
In the 1970s a jade Budha was unearthed near Cooktown in far North Queensland.
In 1879, workmen at Darwin dug up a statue of Shou Lao, the Chinese god of longevity, from deep down beneath the roots of an ancient Banyan tree.
An ancient Chinese vessel was found off the coast of Perth several years ago which later proved to be from the 12th Century.
Many more artifacts have been found to be of Chinese origin including coins, cups, swords, etc. Some Aboriginal tribes also speak of "yellow men" visiting them well before the first fleet.
To add further to the proof that the Chinese knew of Australia, in 338 B.C there were severl kangaroos being kept at the Imperial Palace Zoo in Peking.
In 2003, Chinese President Hu Jintao opened his address to the Australian parliament by claiming China had settled Australia sometime in the 15th Century. "

This kind of makes me reflect back on this guitar solo:
Waltzing Matilda In China
www.macjams.com...

reply to post by Jace26


Now don't take this the wrong way because it is actually very fascinating but what actually is the history of Australia? By that i mean that most of what you stated is perfectly possible and plausible but what is the actual history to come out of it? Where are the temples / fortresses / towns / cities? Where is the culture? That isn't meant in a derogatory way, more that in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America, there is all sorts of physical evidence of the influence of people.

In Australia, all we seem to have is the Aborigines and the cave art - no buildings, etc.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Jace26

 

Now don't take this the wrong way because it is actually very fascinating but what actually is the history of Australia? By that i mean that most of what you stated is perfectly possible and plausible but what is the actual history to come out of it? Where are the temples / fortresses / towns / cities? Where is the culture? That isn't meant in a derogatory way, more that in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America, there is all sorts of physical evidence of the influence of people.

In Australia, all we seem to have is the Aborigines and the cave art - no buildings, etc.

No I don't take offense, well I think our traditional culture namely the Aboriginal peoples have a oral history meaning they pass down they're culture through stories rather than writing them down.
As for Australia, we are still a young nation only 111 years old, and 224 years since the first fleet. We are still to develop a national identity and culture. We do have some old buildings namely in the eastern states, but many were sadly demolished for the Olympic games etc, and replaced by ugly modern structures.
Please reply to let me know if i answered your question?

reply to post by Jace26


Thanks for not taking offence and thanks for answering. It wasn't quite what i was getting at though. The vases, maps, etc all possibly show evidence of knowledge of Australia but could also have other explanations. Europe and Asia were possibly bad examples for me to use but South America would be more apt - people had to travel to get there and then left loads of evidence that they were there.

What i was really (and badly) trying to get at is why did the Aborigines not do any of these things? Or did they and they were ruined in some cataclysm? (off shore ruins, etc).

Basically, everywhere mankind has been they have left some sort of evidence of civilization apart from, seemingly, Australia. There must be some reason for that and i wonder if anyone knows what it is? I have to confess that i have no idea!

reply to post by Jace26


i think what Flavian meant is there is a lack of
archaeological cities

you know, the ancient settlements you're talking about? without them we only have conjecture and scattered coin.
we live in a fascinating land that goes back far longer than is commonly accepted
but without our own Pompeii i am afraid it is all circumstantial.

going on from there, i haven't heard of any of these pyramid you speak of previously
do you have any more information on them?

I am not of Australia, but I did lived there for a year. And when I was there, I learned something about their Aborigines, that being that they came from Asia. Like, Indonesia. The dogs they had, the dingoes, are closely related to wild dogs found in South East Asia. They even look very similar. And if you look at the evolution of Australia's mammalian life, a wild dog would be very weird thing to only sort of spontaneously occur.

Also what are these Masonic hand gestures you say was exchanged between Captain Cook and the Aborigines? When I was looking at Australia's history I never seen anything like that. And if I live in another country for an amount of time, I do all I can to learn all about them and their historys. So, I'm not saying, what my knowledge is complete and it probably worse than an Australian, but I did spent a little time learning this and I saw nothing about Masonic hand gestures at the arrival of Cook.

Also, there is no remains of civilisation. Aborigines were nomadic, and if alien visitors left things like Egyptian pyramids for the Egyptians, why they don't do the same for Australian Aborigines?

So I guess what I ask is, where do you get this information from? Please not, a dodgy website. I suppose that I am academic, and I require verifying sources of information, ones to convince. So don't take me in the wrong way - I seem to offend a lot of Westerners by accident. (I just don't know how to be not direct I guess.)

reply to post by Jace26


I'm fully aware of the ancient civilizations of Australia and have been for many years.......they were here long before the Aboriginal and they were'nt just the Egyptians and Ancient Chinese!

reply to post by decepticonLaura


Thanks for that, i am rather stumbling over myself today!

Not even Pompeii though to be honest, more like something simpler like the ancient settlements in the Orkneys and Hebrides.

There is no doubt the Aborigines have been there for a long time. What did they do? (not meant in an insulting way). I guess it is possible it is just too damn hot and hostile to actually do much without more modern technology!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Jace26

 

I'm fully aware of the ancient civilizations of Australia and have been for many years.......they were here long before the Aboriginal and they were'nt just the Egyptians and Ancient Chinese!

Ok, i will bite.............

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Jace26

 

Thanks for not taking offence and thanks for answering. It wasn't quite what i was getting at though. The vases, maps, etc all possibly show evidence of knowledge of Australia but could also have other explanations. Europe and Asia were possibly bad examples for me to use but South America would be more apt - people had to travel to get there and then left loads of evidence that they were there.

What i was really (and badly) trying to get at is why did the Aborigines not do any of these things? Or did they and they were ruined in some cataclysm? (off shore ruins, etc).

Basically, everywhere mankind has been they have left some sort of evidence of civilization apart from, seemingly, Australia. There must be some reason for that and i wonder if anyone knows what it is? I have to confess that i have no idea!

Okay I know what you mean now.
Firstly the Aborigines were nomads meaning they travelled the land looking for food, they never actually settled any part of the continent. So they never built any structures that were architecturally inspiring, nor did they write, farm, or anything else.
What that effectively means is ANY structure found in Australia such as the Gympie Pyriamid is easily pronounced not to be of Aboriginal origin since they were nomadic.

However, if there were Egyptian, Chinese, or Spanish colonies in Australia than where are the remains of their buildings and why did they leave?
This is effectively what I have asked in my original post. There are ruins in Australia such as those in Sydney that do have definitive features such as sundials and pillars, but the question still remains as to who built them?

It may be that the small and isolated ruins in Australia are not from a foreign civilization but it may be that of an Australian one, remember the Egyptians stating they were taught to build pyriamids from an advanced culture from a "great southern land?"

Or it may be that any ancient cities are now underwater off the Australian coast? Who knows, and until historians stop ignoring the current artifacts found then we may never know the true history of Australia.

According to this, there were even giants living there in the past...
www.cartage.org.lb...

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
I am not of Australia, but I did lived there for a year. And when I was there, I learned something about their Aborigines, that being that they came from Asia. Like, Indonesia. The dogs they had, the dingoes, are closely related to wild dogs found in South East Asia. They even look very similar. And if you look at the evolution of Australia's mammalian life, a wild dog would be very weird thing to only sort of spontaneously occur.

Also what are these Masonic hand gestures you say was exchanged between Captain Cook and the Aborigines? When I was looking at Australia's history I never seen anything like that. And if I live in another country for an amount of time, I do all I can to learn all about them and their historys. So, I'm not saying, what my knowledge is complete and it probably worse than an Australian, but I did spent a little time learning this and I saw nothing about Masonic hand gestures at the arrival of Cook.

Also, there is no remains of civilisation. Aborigines were nomadic, and if alien visitors left things like Egyptian pyramids for the Egyptians, why they don't do the same for Australian Aborigines?

So I guess what I ask is, where do you get this information from? Please not, a dodgy website. I suppose that I am academic, and I require verifying sources of information, ones to convince. So don't take me in the wrong way - I seem to offend a lot of Westerners by accident. (I just don't know how to be not direct I guess.)

I'm sorry but I'm unable to find the site where I referenced the masonic hand gestures from. I had to piece a lot together from various websites in order to create this thread so I'm afraid I can't exactly reference here. But like I said earlier the Aborigines of the Kimberley region have specific blood groups of middle eastern origin, as well as racial features, but they also have some aspects of Egyptian culture with them which includes the masonic hand signals.

It is true there are no known ancient cities in Australia but this thread is more or less based on the fact that various civilizations were possibly present here and what they left behind can come in things such as the Gympie pyriamid, to smaller artifacts like coins and jewellry, to even ancient mining sites located in NSW, QLD, and near Perth.

Some of the information I posted can be verified but some of it can't be so I don't want people to believe everything on here, but at the same time I don't want them to discredit it. Just have an open mind.

Originally posted by lordpiney
According to this, there were even giants living there in the past...
www.cartage.org.lb...

I don't want this thread to go off topic, but interestingly enough many Aboriginal tribes speak of a "Great War" between the Aboriginals and a giant humanoid race. In the end the giants were pushed out from the plains and into the mountains (the Blue mountains?) where it is believed they still exist today.

reply to post by Flavian

Oh There was a very organised culture to sustainable living in australia pre english colonization, google the archaeological digs undertaken in soundwave(I meant southwest) , victoria, the gunditjmara tribe farmed and traded eel using an aquaponic dam style system, they crafted woven traps and had shelters similar to the native americans. No harm in doing some research bud

No legitimate Egyptian artifacts have ever been found in Australia.

Egyptians were never there.

Other than that, nice post OP!

Harte

reply to post by Flavian


it is all good
i knew what you meant
i do it myself continuously

using the example of pompeii, for instance. it was just the first ancient ruin city that popped into my head
i realised as i wrote it that it was the worst possible example to use
but since i am apparently addicted to bad ideas i guess there is nothing to be done.

point is there are myriad ruins literally all over the world!
but not here...
it seems odder and odder to me every time i think of it now

reply to post by jgmara


Now that is some very interesting extra info thanks jgmara.

That is more like the native american existence then? The curious thing though is that even the native americans left some clues, for example the animal mounds (snakes, etc) and even the city in the cliffs (can't remember exactly where but tempted to say Arizona).

The Abo's were probably far too busy avoiding all the little nasties rather than having time to build stuff!