Kirk Cameron on homosexuality.

You mean to tell me Kirk Cameron isn't gay?



Coulda fooled me.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by aaronez
Why is it that only North Amerikans are the only people on the planet that care where someone put his/her private parts? Wake up people, the rest of the world moved on a generation ago. It is SO GAY babbling on about homosexuality all the time...

Many country's still kill homosexuals, it was Christianity that encouraged compassion in North America.
Its so dumb babbling on about what you dont know

Not really. Most are in Africa.

And one of the UN's campaigns is decriminalizing homosexuality.

Here is a site/map that shows LGBT rights worldwide. en.wikipedia.org...

Please provide data that credits Christians with the compassion to encourage accepting homosexuality.

If you are referring to the original Christians that came to America because of prosecution - - - their own country didn't want them and was overjoyed to see them leave. They were extreme radicals.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by PharohGnosis

 

What did Christ say about being Gay? Can you please cite the gospel, scripture or whatever, where Christ addresses homosexuality?

He didn't say anything about it...

The very idea of being against it is flawed when compared with his teaching...

Fornication is a sin. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law. Whenever the masses came to Jesus Christ, he told them repent and not to sin. Repent mean turning away from their previous flesh serving life.

e.g. Jesus Christ and the female adulterer

John 8: 1 - 11 NIV
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

This doesn't mean that she could go on committing adultery, but to turn away from fornication and her worldly and flesh-serving life before meeting Jesus Christ.

Was Jesus above that law? He asked that anyone without sin be the first to throw a stone. He himself didn't throw a stone. Was he (a) sinful or (b) above his own instructions or (c) was it a trap to free that woman without her getting stoned?

He was D) fulfilling the law.... www.cbcg.org...
if you still are confused what fulfilling the law means, ^ there is a good place to start
if we were still under the Mosaic Law and had to obey the letter of the law, we would have to stone the woman. but when Jesus Christ came in the flesh, we are to uphold the spiritual intent of the law. because of mosaic law, the faith was really shaken up by the people in charge, the pharisees. people started doing works than having faith, and sought their reputation for doing good deeds.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

i provided sound interpretation that is in alignment with the bible, and you seem to respond with a circular disdain against my "brainwashed" opinions at every attempt as i try to intellectually debate with you.

The original question i replied to asked by windword, was "what does Jesus say about gays"... you responded to me with inturpretation of passages that suit your belief. And your inturpretation was incorrect... as i pointed out.

For someone that reads the bible so much, you seem prone to pick and choose verses as you see fit, which is evident in your post and thread history and your total disregarding of Paul's teaching,

I don't pick and choose what fits my belief, i pick the words of Jesus, and stand by them... Pauls teaching does not line up with Jesus... Thus i have no need for his books. I do not hide the fact that i distrust paul.

a dangerous mechanism perpetuated by the "doctrinal brainwashers" of organized religions that you seem so passionately against.

I disagree, most christian religions stick to pauls words even more so then Jesus

one thing is clear, and you cannot create mental hurdles around this absolute: same sexual relations are CONDEMNED under Mosaic Law, for the sole purpose to set the Jews apart from the rest of pagan worshiping world..

Ah so you stick to Mosaic laws? At least that makes sence... Lets see what else you stick to...

58.To lend to an alien at interest (Deut. 23:21) According to tradition, this is mandatory

82.Not to indulge in familiarities with relatives, such as kissing, embracing, winking, skipping, which may lead to incest (Lev. 18:6)

367.Not to wear garments made of wool and linen mixed together (Deut. 22:11)

www.jewfaq.org...

Dig through that list... IF you follow all of those "commands" you do NOT follow Jesus... sorry but its true.

Jesus did not believe in usuary.... and many of the laws in that list...

that being said, sexual immoral sins are forgiven.

And again, theres nothing "immoral" about two consenting adults choosing to have sexual relations... gay or not.

Im sorry if you can't have an intellectual debate with me... it happens, but if you choose to push something about Jesus that is a lie... im going to call you on it.

Jesus did not say ANYTHING about being gay... its a fact.

On the other hand Mosaic laws did... but Jesus did not stick to all of those laws either...

Check for yourself...

Honestly i thought you were christian.... but it seems you're actually jewish if you stick to those laws... i had no idea...

Christians arn't required to stick to mosaic law... but they should stick to the 10... that came before the two because the ten are subject to the two.

On a side note... IF All christians followed Jesus' rules, i would proudly proclaim myself christian... Hell i would yell it from the rooftops... unfortunatly they don't... which is why i am not christian.

I will not associate myself with a title that shows people to be liars and hypocrites.

I'm one who won't tell a person to STFU just because I have a different opinion from them. I don't have to agree with it or support it if I don't like it, but i consider poor form to tell another person to STFU. Harrassing and antagonizing a person is something else entirely.

The thing about free speech is it is supposed to allow everyone to express their opinion on something, however unfortunate or unpopular it may be. People who are truly tolerant and value free speech won't tell another person to STFU if all they're doing is expressing an opinion.

I'm incredibly frustrated of certain groups saying they have the monopoly on free free speech and trying to set up their petty bs rules on how people should speak. "You can't say that word because it's offensive and hurts people" or "you have to express yourself in the proper way for the opinion to be credible or taken serious" is a bunch of baloney. People have a right to their beliefs and opinions and a right to express them, however unfortunate or unpopular.

Free speech is for all citizens, not just a select few.

Otherwise, why even bother with free speech if it's just for a selected few?

If only a select group can speak its mind on anything, then that defeats the concept of free speech, and we really should stop even pretending we value it.

reply to post by Akragon


akragon, i do not wish to repeat myself. please read my posts in their entirety before you are so quick to label and condemn me again, and lonewolf's when discussing sexual immoralities, as his bold rebuttals pick up where you see fault.

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Follow a false Gospel all you want but on Judgment Day God will cast you into Hell for rejecting his truth.

Exactly. Live your life how you want to. If you don't follow the Bible and such bad things may happen or they may not. Regardless, you just stated to let others live as they want to. Sure there are suspected consequences and at the same time you're endorsing people to live their lives on their preference.

Well said in that specific context.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by Akragon

 

akragon, i do not wish to repeat myself. please read my posts in their entirety before you are so quick to label and condemn me again, and lonewolf's when discussing sexual immoralities, as his bold rebuttals pick up where you see fault.

What makes you think i didn't read your posts?

And what does Lonewolfs posts have to do with what im saying to you? I haven't even read his posts in this thread because he is not talking to me... you were.

AND... i didn't condem you or him either pardon my chuckle...

I simply stated a fact... IF you believe you should follow mosaic law... you do not follow Jesus... following those laws contradict what HE taught... IF you can't see that, theres nothing i can say...

As for sexual immoralities... i've already said my piece on that... twice actually...

So why do i have to repeat myself?

Yes the OT condems gays... so does paul... Jesus does not...

consider this verse...

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Again, you will see it your way because you do not want to recognize what is truth. Jesus is the incarnation of God, he set down what is in the Torah, Penteteuch, Septuagint, Bible books before he ever came to this world. God is unchanging.

No, Jesus was a man, the son of a carpenter, who preached the secret mysteries of the Torah that the Pharisees kept hidden, and probably didn't understand themselves. Jesus studied in Egypt and in India and was a shaman of sacred magic such as tantra. He called upon nature spirits and familiars and was accused of witchcraft.

Jesus was not sent here to preach about sexual practices, but of an holistic meditation, which is the Tree of Life. This is what westerners call "Christ Consciousness."

Again, Jesus addressed sexual immorality and homosexuality within the bible is defined as a sexual immorality. When he created Man, he didn't create another man for him to have sex with, he created him a mate a female, now you can deny this all you want and in so doing you deny the truth and you are not christian, nor are you a follower of Christ but a follower of the synogogue Satan.

Nope, he didn't. Jesus said that he fulfilled the law. Like Moses was a man who received the law and gave to his people, Jesus came and gave the new and fulfilled law to his people. It is done. All those pesky Mosiac laws don't apply anymore, at all! It's done.

If, as you say, Jesus died for our sins, which I don't believe, and, the wages of sin is death, and, we're all gonna die, then we're all in the same boat. One sin is not greater than another. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin, which it isn't, it is no greater of a sin than your arrogance, pride and bloodlust for Armageddon and god's revenge.

I feel sad for you, that your god is so small and petty, but, if it makes you feel safe to think that you own the answers to life, the universe and all the fish, well, god bless your little heart. But leave the gays alone!

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by PharohGnosis

 

What did Christ say about being Gay? Can you please cite the gospel, scripture or whatever, where Christ addresses homosexuality?

He didn't say anything about it...

The very idea of being against it is flawed when compared with his teaching...

Fornication is a sin. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law. Whenever the masses came to Jesus Christ, he told them repent and not to sin. Repent mean turning away from their previous flesh serving life.

e.g. Jesus Christ and the female adulterer

John 8: 1 - 11 NIV
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

This doesn't mean that she could go on committing adultery, but to turn away from fornication and her worldly and flesh-serving life before meeting Jesus Christ.

Was Jesus above that law? He asked that anyone without sin be the first to throw a stone. He himself didn't throw a stone. Was he (a) sinful or (b) above his own instructions or (c) was it a trap to free that woman without her getting stoned?

He was D) fulfilling the law.... www.cbcg.org...
if you still are confused what fulfilling the law means, ^ there is a good place to start
if we were still under the Mosaic Law and had to obey the letter of the law, we would have to stone the woman. but when Jesus Christ came in the flesh, we are to uphold the spiritual intent of the law. because of mosaic law, the faith was really shaken up by the people in charge, the pharisees. people started doing works than having faith, and sought their reputation for doing good deeds.

Okay, I read your link. But I'm still convinced, that there is more to it than just "Hey, Jesus was the great Fullfiller!" - did he stay above the law, as I proposed? Why didn't he throw a stone at the woman? He DID NOT abolish the old law, he magnified it. Does magnify in this context mean that he took an "old" law (given by god, see adultery), magnified it by telling the people that only a person without sin should be allowed/required to throw the first stone and then were able to just sit there and draw in the sand?

Why didn't he throw a stone? A judge is not above the law, the law is for everyone.

reply to post by ManFromEurope

Was Jesus above that law? He asked that anyone without sin be the first to throw a stone. He himself didn't throw a stone. Was he (a) sinful or (b) above his own instructions or (c) was it a trap to free that woman without her getting stoned?

Under the laws of Moses, a man and woman who both commit adultery are to both be stoned, preferably at the same time. The phaisees were trying to trick Jesus into breaking the law by having him stone just the woman. Instead he did something unexpected, he protected her from those who would have stoned her anyways and he forgave her and told her to leave her sins behind. Being God he has the power to forgive sins, no one else can boast that. This was why many jews who accepted him worshipped him, they knew who he is.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

Was Jesus above that law? He asked that anyone without sin be the first to throw a stone. He himself didn't throw a stone. Was he (a) sinful or (b) above his own instructions or (c) was it a trap to free that woman without her getting stoned?

Under the laws of Moses, a man and woman who both commit adultery are to both be stoned, preferably at the same time. The phaisees were trying to trick Jesus into breaking the law by having him stone just the woman. Instead he did something unexpected, he protected her from those who would have stoned her anyways and he forgave her and told her to leave her sins behind. Being God he has the power to forgive sins, no one else can boast that. This was why many jews who accepted him worshipped him, they knew who he is.

That would mean that by the act of "forgiving" he was abolishing the law. He wasn't magnifying it. Therefore what he did there was wrong.
And it was wrong that he didn't demand to have the man who commited adultery to be brought before him.

You can have only one thing: follow the law, bend the law or break the law (even passively by ignoring it). What did Jesus do here?

reply to post by windword

Nope, he didn't. Jesus said that he fulfilled the law. Like Moses was a man who received the law and gave to his people, Jesus came and gave the new and fulfilled law to his people. It is done. All those pesky Mosiac laws don't apply anymore, at all! It's done

WRONG. They are still in play. The law will not be done away with until the very end, when the new heaven and new earth come. Until this heaven and this earth pass away they shall remain. By Jesus fulfilling the law, he manifested them into himself. Even Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law. If the laws were done away with they would be abolished. Furthermore, the apostles wouldn't have preached against sexual immorality if they were done away with.

Not to mention the fact that if the laws were done away with we could just go out and kill whoever we wanted and suffer no consequences from Jesus. Now, do you see any christians going around trying to murder people or even lying? Do you see them worshipping idols and pagan gods? Ever wonder why? Because Jesus wrote his laws on our hearts and in our minds so we do them subconciously and if we go against them our conscience convicts us.

Matthew 5:17-20

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now i suggest you go read the entire chapter. Jesus came teaching how to obey the law as according to him and in his way. Homosexuality is a sexual immorality and it will always remain so and for you to ignore this fact puts not only your soul in danger but everyone else's as well who does the same. Even his apostles preached against this and he gave them charge of the church and to teach. If you ignore them, then you ignore him for he chose them to be what they were.

reply to post by ManFromEurope

You can have only one thing: follow the law, bend the law or break the law (even passively by ignoring it). What did Jesus do here?

You'e forgetting one major thing here. Jesus came taching the law as according to God not according to men. Judaism had become a tradition of men and Jesus railed and criticized the pharisees and Sanhedrin over it. He set the matter straight. Jesus requires mercy, not sacrifice.

Matthew 12:1-8

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

He taught forgiveness and mercy and loving your enemies as you love your friends. He fulfilled the law by becoming the law. It's his way or no way.

John 14: 6-7
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

He meant this is every word of the sense, his way, his truth and his life.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Not to mention the fact that if the laws were done away with we could just go out and kill whoever we wanted and suffer no consequences from Jesus. Now, do you see any christians going around trying to murder people or even lying? Do you see them worshipping idols and pagan gods? Ever wonder why? Because Jesus wrote his laws on our hearts and in our minds so we do them subconciously and if we go against them our conscience convicts us.

First of all, YES, I have seen Christians running around and killing people, George Bush comes to mind. LOL. Also, idols (?), the Catholic Church comes to mind.

Lonewolf, you can't equate homosexuality to murder, unless you equate all sins as equal, which doesn't work with today's justice system. Additionally, the Ten Commandments do not forbid homosexuality. They do forbid adultery

adultery [əˈdʌltərɪ]
n pl -teries
(Law) voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man or woman and a partner other than the legal spouse

And they forbid coveting another man's property, such as his woman, or manservant, but not homosexuality. They don't even require a "love" of God, but an unwavering respect.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Now, as much as I hate quoting the bible, because I can't trust that the words that I quote haven't been adulterated, Jesus said:

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Okay, let's explore ways that one can "love" oneself. The Ten Commandments do not forbid masterbation. Now, if you quote something about "Onanism" or the shame of "spilling one's seed," my head will explode. After that, I would counter, "What about female masterbation?" No seed wasted there. Isn't masterbation, in fact, a homosexual act? One could infer that Jesus is suggesting homosexuality in the "new" commandment.

Personally, I believe that Jesus gave the "new" Torah to the people because the "word," as it had been given to Moses had been bastardized through time. All these ridiculous laws about stoning, burning and otherwise hating on others, were dealt with by Jesus with common sense. For example:

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

Jesus ministered to the very poor, ignorant and illiterate. These people were simple and earnest, and Jesus spoke directly to their hearts in such a way as to make them understand the complicated laws embedded in the Torah. He probably spoke with his hands, sang and danced, like David rather than Oral Roberts, to get is message across. These kinds of communication don't translate well, by scholars hundreds of years after the fact.

I would love to turn you onto the Meru Foundation, Stan Kenton's work of the Alphabet in you Hands and the Dance of the Torah. His work is amazing! www.meru.org...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


What is "the Law" that Jesus was refering to Lonewolf?

The Ten?

Mosaic Law?

Both?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

What is "the Law" that Jesus was refering to Lonewolf?

The Ten?

Mosaic Law?

Both?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -Matthew 5:17

The 10 Commandments are only part of Jewish law. There are 613 laws in Judaism.

reply to post by PharohGnosis


Are you a Christian? If do, so you subscribe to all of these laws personally? How do you reconcile the "fulfillment" of the law?

Do you continue to sacrifice animals? Do you continue to stone women who are found NOT to be virgins?

Originally posted by PharohGnosis

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

What is "the Law" that Jesus was refering to Lonewolf?

The Ten?

Mosaic Law?

Both?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -Matthew 5:17

The 10 Commandments are only part of Jewish law. There are 613 laws in Judaism.

I wasn't actually talking to you... but thats alright.

How do you feel about the FACT... that you follow all 613 of those laws, and your saviour did not?

reply to post by PharohGnosis


Kirk "Marriage is almost as old as dirt"

Almost as old as dirt? Does Kirk know the planet is about 4ish billion years old or does he believe in Creationism? Probably the latter is my guess. What does Kirk do since Growing Pains ended? IS he still in the biz or does he work at Walmart?