Iran tests nukes in North Korea

Originally posted by Angry Danish
So, nobody has ever presented evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. The only thing we have a lot of evidence for is a peaceful nuclear program. Unfortunately, the media has done a HORRIBLE job of differentiating between these two things.

Iran must have the only competent government in the world to: 1) be keeping a nuclear weapons program completely covert in a massive conspiracy against the entire world, even though it has a massive magnifying glass over its nuclear program. 2) Be able to smuggle weapons-grade uranium all the way to N.Korea without ANYONE noticing.

You quote, "The only thing we have a lot of evidence for is a peaceful nuclear program."
What evidence do we have of this, other than them telling the world this. If it is so peaceful why all the obstruction of the IAEA?

"Iran must have the only competent government in the world to: 1) be keeping a nuclear weapons program completely covert in a massive conspiracy against the entire world, even though it has a massive magnifying glass over its nuclear program."
......um.....eh.....I have a news flash for you, it really is not a secret. You sir seem to be the only one I know that is completely bamboozled.

"2) Be able to smuggle weapons-grade uranium all the way to N.Korea without ANYONE noticing."
It's not called smuggling if the other nation is waiting for it to arrive! Good Grief!

reply to post by Sharpenmycleats


I dont buy this "they are so very peaceful" BS either. Maybe they are not trying to make nuclear weapons, but Irans statements about the U.S. and Israel are certainly not "peaceful".

reply to post by Skyfloating



'We`re civilized. Iran is presumed innocent until evidence is found.'

AHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA LULZ OMGWTFBBQ I needed a good laugh today. Tell that to Iraq. Thanks for lightening up the thread!!

Originally posted by iamconcerned
'We`re civilized. Iran is presumed innocent until evidence is found.'

AHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA LULZ OMGWTFBBQ I needed a good laugh today. Tell that to Iraq. Thanks for lightening up the thread!!

Who do you think I am more likely to listen to...a nuclear physicist who has dedicated some amount of time into research, or an internet-troll who prefers to attack the person instead of the evidence? You are about as far from developing a convincing case as Ahmadenijad is from being re-elected.

I googled hasbara.
Hasbara

It is public diplomacy in Israel. I guess they have trolls, too.

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

'Shouldn't we be asking whether Iran wants nuclear energy for peaceful purposes or not? Or should we just take what they say without question?'

How does traces of Xenon, supposedly discovered TWO YEARS AGO by a scientist in South Korea, relate to Iran's nuclear program, other than your B.S. innuendo. You insinuating that they are related, is as good as me insinuating you are a hasbara troll.

First off "angry Iranian troll", the question about nuclear energy for peaceful purposes has been asked. Over and Over. The world then sent in the IAEA to inspect their facilities to see what they were doing. They got locked out!

Whether they like it or not OPEC countries and other large oil exporting countries have assumed a responsibility. To keep the oil flowing for the survival of many nations energy needs. Building nuclear energy facilities in the middle east could have world-wide catastrophic consequences to the world economy if there were a serious accident or meltdown. Is this worth the risk?

These OPEC countries have enough oil practically sitting on the ground that will last them over 400 years, at a fraction of the cost that nuclear energy will cost. Why don't they invest in refineries instead? Why don't the use money for research and development to figure out alternative energy sources. Technology that could be sold to slow the flow and they could profit from.

Why?, because their program is not for peaceful purposes.

The German article is filled with sensationism, just like the headline of the OP.

There are no evidence what so ever that North Korea tested nukes on behalf of Iran. The article raises the question why North Korea made those tests in secrecy, because North Koreans usually love to show off when testing new weapons.

How the hell is that evidence of anything?

Another question raised in the article is why North Korea for the first time in their history used a new type produced uranium in the two tests of 2010 ?!

Seriously, how is any of this evidence ?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

Enough of the BS.....either start the missiles flying or shut the F up.....Im sick of all the war mongering and propaganda.

On or Off...no in between!

We`re civilized. Iran is presumed innocent until evidence is found.

All the evidence necessary already exists, only there is no appetite for it.

People want it - they want the pretend peace of a moment of rejecting action.

They want to believe the lies given about peaceful intent. Even if it is peaceful (and it isn't) the consquences of this event drawn out over the Middle East and Africa over the next decade will significantly alter all parameters of peace in the World.

People want the consequences, or they crave their pretense of that civilization means being intentionally blind so much right now that no level of evidence will be enough.

reply to post by Swills


deeep deep underground i would assume as above ground tests are generally illegal and highly frowned upon,i have no idea how deep they would have to be to not register on radiation detectors or if thats even possible but even then im sure seismic detectors would have picked it up at the very least www.llnl.gov... that link seems to coroborate that even if clandestine in nature due to the pakistani and indian tests they now have the seismic signature so to speak of what below ground tests look like so i think the real trick will be to get some of the eq experts of ats on here to see if they can match an alleged detonation with a coresponding eq event that was irregular that's my take on it any ways

WHEN the world received the news of the Indian and Pakistani clandestine underground nuclear tests last May, a team of Livermore researchers used the events to validate several seismic methods they have developed over the past decade to monitor the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT). Using data recorded worldwide by a host of seismic monitoring stations, the team successfully differentiated the nuclear blasts from typical regional earthquakes, characterized the yields of the tests, and noted inconsistencies between the announced test yields and the seismic data. In all, the seismic signals from the nuclear tests provided important new data to help calibrate seismic stations in a critically important region of the world. The CTBT has been signed by 152 nations, although not by India or Pakistan. The treaty provides for an International Monitoring System (IMS) of automated seismic stations, many of them still to be installed, to record any evidence of clandestine nuclear explosions. These stations transmit data via satellite to the International Data Center in Vienna, Austria, which in turn distributes them to national data centers around the world. Figure 1 shows the location of existing seismic stations in the Southwest Asia area, planned IMS seismic stations, the seismically determined locations of the recent tests by India and Pakistan, and locations of some recent earthquakes in the region.

from above source

www.globalpost.com...

Location: China-Russia-North Korea Border Magnitude: 6.9 Date: February 18, 2010 Location: Illinois, United States Magnitude: 3.8 Date: February 10, 2010 Location: Offshore Northern California Magnitude: 5.9 Date: February 4, 2010

thats the only one in the north korean area for 2010 but i have no idea the credibility of the site...any one know how big a nuke it would take to get to 6.9 and if those kind of earthquakes are normal for the region or not?

earthquake.usgs.gov... more credible source and complete list of eq's in 2010

reply to post by Sharpenmycleats


'Building nuclear energy facilities in the middle east could have world-wide catastrophic consequences to the world economy if there were a serious accident or meltdown. Is this worth the risk?'

Your addiction to oil is more important that a countries sovereignty. Got it.

I read the head line to this thread the other day and said to myself ,yea ,sure ok ..well if Iran did test a bomb, then that means they have the bomb. and if they have the bomb then it would be stupid to say we don't want them to get the bomb. Does it not sound like the story of closing the gate after the horse is gone? If they have the bomb and have tested it then why the sanctions to stop them from developing a bomb they already have ?... Or is this just info to help whip up stupid support to go to war against another Country that may not share the same ideologies ? ...peace

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by Sharpenmycleats

 

'Building nuclear energy facilities in the middle east could have world-wide catastrophic consequences to the world economy if there were a serious accident or meltdown. Is this worth the risk?'

Your addiction to oil is more important that a countries sovereignty. Got it.

Why do you continue to avoid the questions.....

And instead of giving thought out, intentional responses, you evade the questions, attack the poster and go on tangeants that have nothing to do with the post?

They hang gays, execute christians, make up phony "cia agents" as an excuse to keep political prisoners....stone women to death who are "adulterers" but are some how peaceful...

This country has expressed their want for nuclear weapons before, theyve constantly warned of how bad their wrath is, and how they will rain down on any country....

yet people have a hard time believing they are anything but for peacful purposes? give me a break

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by jibeho

 

Funny, noone ever talks about attacking North Korea. I'll have to assume you are a bunch of --- by never wanting to attack North Korea.

edit on 5-3-2012 by alien because: ...lets not circumvent the censors please...they're there for a reason...

Probably because north Korea withdrew from the NPT, unlike Iran, who is just ignroing their NPT obligations.

next time do research before opening your mouth and making innacurate accusations. You sounds like the Panzies in Tehran.

Originally posted by butcherguy
I googled hasbara.
Hasbara

It is public diplomacy in Israel. I guess they have trolls, too.

When confronted by facts they cant refute, people will try to invoke Israel / drag Israel into the conversation as quickly as they can. Its typical response from people who are incapable of exercising common sense during a discussion. It can be found in most of the threads that dealw ith Iran and their nuke program, and the constant argument aboput Israels nuke program (which has never officaly been acknowledged, yet they are willing to beleive the intelligence that says its real, while ignoring the same info when it comes to Irans nuke program).

reply to post by iamconcerned
I do not want to burst your non believing bubble but you do need a short history lesson so with out a due from CNN

N. Korea nuclear test

CNN|Added on May 25, 2009North Korea has conducted its second nuclear test, in defiance of numerous international warnings. CNN's Brian Todd investigates.

video link to be added, so no nuke test ??/ www.cnn.com.../video/world/2009/05/25/dcl.todd.nkorea.nuke.test.cnn well it seems not to work but that is the video file on it ok well i tried not linking up as video so copy this line /video/?/video/world/2009/05/25/dcl.todd.nkorea.nuke.test.cnn in the search box it will come up

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by Sharpenmycleats

 

'Building nuclear energy facilities in the middle east could have world-wide catastrophic consequences to the world economy if there were a serious accident or meltdown. Is this worth the risk?'

Your addiction to oil is more important that a countries sovereignty. Got it.

Your bias toward America is so blatant you don't even know there are other countries in the world totally reliant on 100% oil imports, probably "your's" that would simply starve without it. Unfortunately for you that would not be America.

That said, I never stated they could not have nuclear power. I never stated my opinion usurps their sovereignty. I gave reasons why I felt they have not proven it is for peaceful purposes. I also question why nuclear power at the cost is needed if the program is stricly peaceful. I also stated the important role the region plays being a global energy provider and the high risk of nuclear power.

Too bad you could not provide anything constructive to your post, other than a false conclusion!

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Tying Iran to North Korea? Yeah why not huh?

George Bush would be proud to take out the remaining axis of evil in a dual operation against iran and North Korea at the same time.

Tying the Korean Nuclear tests to Iran.....a Bush wet dream...unfortunately he wasnt smart enough to think of such a fanciful notion.

Its common knowledge that North Korea and Iran have been exchanging information and know-how since decades. I'm puzzled why this seems to be news to most people here.

reply to post by uxon1


this was EXACTLY what i was thinking! ...and here we "civilized" people are, filling this thread up with talk about "trolls" and such...

(smh)

Originally posted by Intrud3r

How the hell is that evidence of anything?

Seriously, how is any of this evidence ?

The evidence in this case are traces of Uranium. This was already mentioned in the OP, you must have accidentally missed it!

Originally posted by Sharpenmycleats


These OPEC countries have enough oil practically sitting on the ground that will last them over 400 years, at a fraction of the cost that nuclear energy will cost. Why don't they invest in refineries instead? Why don't the use money for research and development to figure out alternative energy sources. Technology that could be sold to slow the flow and they could profit from.

Why?, because their program is not for peaceful purposes.

Good point. Iran is one of the countries that least needs nuclear power.