From an Outsider: Ron Paul Does Not Care If You Live Or Die..

Just Keep Paying Them Taxes!!!

I have read and read everything on RP thanks to this site.. I believed that he was the best hope for America and the free world.. However after looking at his policies and listening to his rhetoric, I have changed my mind..

Maybe it is a cultural thing??? Here in the UK we have a national health service and welfare that takes care of our citizens from the cradle to the grave.. Its not perfect and home growns and foreign take the piss out of the system.. However that is changing.. But... Even though a minority take the piss I still do not mind my taxes helping the health and wealth of my fellow citizens..

I INSIST that my taxes are used to help out in any emergency... After all... It could happen to me and mine too..

RP seems to be about the bottom line... MONEY...

If you are in any trouble then fk you!!

Health and disaster, you can count on RP's consistency to tell you to fk off no matter how poor you are..

Is that an America you want?????

I hope not!!

One without a social conscience but with a fk you attitude if you happen to be too poor to afford insurance...


That kind of smacks of elitism no??

Natural selection?? Or just perks for the rich??

Either way it stinks!!

RP is WORSE than Obama! At least the singer in chief has a social conscience hey??

Why would you put RP in the whitehouse if the government is just at a state level, each one just taking care of itself in a fractured and devolved un-USA???

Why would you need a whitehouse??

Or a president???

Thats just my take on it..

Sorry for droning on...

I agree with you. Ron Paul is far from perfect. Even though he is a claytons corporatist and a republican and a politician I still think he is better than Obama or Romney. Its very sad.

He specifically said that we should utilize the National Guard to stabilize the areas hit by disasters but that FEMA is a joke (which it is), and he promotes the use of state-funded ERT, which a lot of states have. He is simply saying that Federal Money shouldn't pay for these areas because there is no Federal Money left.

He also says that people should have insurance (frankly in our current society you should have insurance) to cover themselves if they live in disaster-prone areas. This is a bit of common sense.

I don't really see much of a problem here, he's just saying that we shouldn't be using the federal government as a response team to natural disasters.

reply to post by EvanB
Once again, someone who doesn't understand. First off, Paul wants the FEDERAL government out of such business - they're horrible, inefficient, and wasteful at it. He'd much rather see the federal government stop sucking up so much money (and wasting it), and let the states and the people keep it themselves to secure their own futures - be that through the states implementing programs like these themselves (which Paul has no problem with, even if he likely thinks they will also not be very good at it), or the people saving the money for insurance purposes.

Where do you think the federal government gets its money from, exactly? Yeah - us.

If our financial house were in order and government were more competent, I'd personally have no problem with some of my taxes going to programs like this - preferably on the state level as their is no federal authority for such programs, like with most things.

It's not that Paul doesn't care if people live or die - he just think the government stinks at what it purports to do - and rightfully so. We can do better ourselves, were we able to keep our own money.

If he succeeds in ending the federal reserve
then money will be worth more
more people will have more money, taxes will be slashed most likely.

sound currency alone is worth voting for him, i'm an outsider as well, interesting to watch. But the FED effects the entire world, so there are LOTS of people rooting for paul that aren't in the US.

reply to post by EvanB

Why would you put RP in the whitehouse if the government is just at a state level, each one just taking care of itself in a fractured and devolved un-USA???

Why would you need a whitehouse??

Or a president???

Or a Constitution??






All it is, is an old piece of paper anyway....

The founding fathers set up the department of education, the IRS, FEMA, the Federal Reserve Bank and a number of other government organizations and by God, we need to do what George Washington did and keep these institutions for the people.

reply to post by boncho
Well said.

OP also has apparently missed the point that Paul ACKNOWLEDGES the federal government does have its proper roles to play, and has just stepped very far outside the box. The US was not intended to be a homogenous nation of identical states - it was intended to be an experiment in liberty with the states trying out different ways of doing things.

Ron Paul has a social conscious, he thinks society should help its fellow man and govt should not. He is a strict govt is to govern as little as possible guy, in theory giving more "liberty and freedom" to society.

How society decides to use their freedom and liberty is on society not govt. if communities choose to help the less fortunate then the better, than is the ideal in theory at least as far as I understand it?

I am not a Ron Paul supporter btw, so dr Paul supporters please correct me if I am wrong.

Fine. Use tax money to help victims. Cancel a Tank order, new presidential limo, or cancel some foreign aid to do it rather than raising my taxes or adding debt for our ancestors to pay for. Cancel lifetime pay to Congress who serve a few terms...

reply to post by Jassu


Why am I trolling?? Just because I do not agree with you or do not have a handle on certain specifics does not make me a troll!!

For MONTHS us outsiders have seen thread after thread about Dr Paul.. How amazing he is blah blah.. But when we actually look at what he says, then it just seems more of the same if not worse..

My own hope for you guys is a truly united states.. Neighbour taking care of neighbour, helping each other to prosper and live... However with Dr Paul, it seems that you need absurd amounts of unaffordable insurance just to remain healthy...

Seems very wrong...

Originally posted by Jassu
reply to post by EvanB

 

My troll senses are tingling!!

Why whenever someone has something bad to say about your messiah you call them a troll. The OP explained he was from the UK , where we have a different culture and out look, especially when it comes to our national health care. Something most british people take pride in.

It's just a different out look, no better, no worse just different.

reply to post by EvanB


Even though you are English I couldn't agree more!

Hey, Ron...

alot of the difference in the US v's UK as how you pay for something such as the health service in the UK you pay for it via taxation and in america its voluntary so if you hit a car you will be saved but the bill will be delivered as one almight blow rather than a smaller hit via your pay packet as national insurance

the main difference i think is that everything in america was originally designed to be optional so if you dont want/afford a service such as medical care then then tough you die where as here in the UK the design of the health service was to keep the population as healthy as possible so they could work as hard and pay as much tax as possible

reply to post by EvanB

My own hope for you guys is a truly united states.. Neighbour taking care of neighbour, helping each other to prosper and live... However with Dr Paul, it seems that you need absurd amounts of unaffordable insurance just to remain healthy...

Seems very wrong...

What seems very wrong to me is:

A government that tinkers in economics and more or less directly causes economic crashes, and then prolongs and deepens them by continued tinkering.

A government that turns its back on its founding doctrines and begins to spy on pretty much everything all of its citizens does, then paves the way for them to be disappeared or otherwise indefinitely detained (if not outright assassinated).

A government that sucks so much money out of its own people, puts them trillions of dollars in debt to bankers, and then goes on militaristic spending sprees and pogroms around the world to the tune of millions of civilian deaths.

A government that prevents the states from making their own common-sense decisions to abandon various PHENOMENALLY failed policies - and is willing to kick in the doors of its 'free' citizens and add them to the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world, if not kill them outright.

A lot of the same things that seem very wrong to myself also seem very wrong to Ron Paul. He has evinced himself as understanding these matters by accurately warning about their likely outcomes before those then occurred.

And he also understands that there are some very obvious reasons the healthcare you mention here are so drastically much more expensive than they used to be - which once again goes back to various levels of government involvement and tinkering - and that the likely way to reverse this trend is to also reverse the actions that began it...in addition to the fact that a country in economic shambles will be much worse off when the accounting can no longer be milked to provide a false air of sustainability.

reply to post by EvanB


Again I am not a Paul supporter but I think "neighbor helping neighbor" is exactly what he is counting on.

He is putting the ball in our court and saying " y'all figure it out"

In other words he is confident that when disaster strikes people will come together out of a sense of community, compassion and charity to help their fellow man and that is more beneficial that outsiders from the fed comming in.

It is a more localized approach to handling disasters. If states choose to tax for disaster and citizens of that state approve then the state will have resources in place to help.

Some states may choose to not tax their residents and then when disasters occur, the local communities and charitable groups will step in to assist in disaster relief.

It sounds great in theory, but as with most theories I remain hesitate to embrace it fully......I am forever in limbo about stuff like this, "Zwischenzweiwelten" always stuck between two worlds, thoughts, ideas....sometimes I think yeah....dr Paul is right!

Other times I question how well our society would respond......hence why I cannot fully embrace dr Paul's libertarian ideology.

In my mind ideology=bad and I usually can't get past that.....it is a struggle for me every time I come to ATS!

reply to post by Praetorius


Good post


I know that the US is larger with each state having specific concerns, problems that are specific to that state requiring individual solutions bespoke to fit that state...

However, I have friends in Florida and California who pay absurd amounts of money for insurances that they are required to have for their mortgages alone which kind of bypasses your optional quote if you need a place to live.. In some cases they are paying the equivalent to $500 a month just for health insurance which is a mandatory requirement.. I know that is for mortgage holders, however it just serves as an example of the cost of living even for the semi successful who work hard, pay their way and wish to remain healthy in order to do so..

Devolved government is indeed a good thing... I personally wish to see that at the county level in the UK (regional assemblies) with a English parliament... However I would not begrudge my fellow British citizens help if they need it..

reply to post by EvanB

Why am I trolling?? Just because I do not agree with you or do not have a handle on certain specifics does not make me a troll!!

Taking someone out of context is trolling.

I'm not a fan of Rick Santorum, yet I still defended him when he was taken out of context.

And it is funny that even when he isn't taken out of context, it is actually more damaging to his character because the implication of his rhetoric is that he is pandering to certain groups. Which to me is worse than attacking a certain group.

It makes him come off as a flake.

Again I am not a Paul supporter but I think "neighbor helping neighbor" is exactly what he is counting on. He is putting the ball in our court and saying " y'all figure it out"

reply to post by Mijamija

Sounds like David Camerons (British Prime Minister) "Big Society"

Which basically boils down too give us your taxes but help yourselves out you bastards...

Originally posted by EvanB

Devolved government is indeed a good thing... I personally wish to see that at the county level in the UK (regional assemblies) with a English parliament... However I would not begrudge my fellow British citizens help if they need it..

its ok till you realise that every person suddenly requires the same pay as their neighbour so when you go from one person earning £100k a year and their subordinates making £75k a year you suddenly have each of them demanding £100k and a load of subordinates all wanting £75k since they are now one step closer to being top of the pile