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posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Okay, so you're saying that God has always existed--but you cannot, will not, admit that if that is true, then it's also possible that life itself has always existed...in which case your God is redundant. Or, that there's no need for a "designer" in order for life to spontaneously emerge. In which case, your God is redundant. Learn to think, man. You creationists and Bible thumpers don't even realize you're contradicting yourselves.


OF course - life always existed because God always existed. As the ultimate source of life - he had the capacity to share life. Thus the Creator of Life. Simple as that. Learn to think man.

As for redundancy, there's ONLY ONE Creator - Jehovah God. No one created him thus no redundancy. Why you can't figure this out I don't know.

Question is - if you can't believe that God exist, why do you believe that there's such thing as Infinity and infinite space?

tc.





And more preaching, and zero facts




posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 





And more preaching, and zero facts


Still no answer to my simple Q mr xyz?

what-up?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Okay, so you're saying that God has always existed--but you cannot, will not, admit that if that is true, then it's also possible that life itself has always existed...in which case your God is redundant. Or, that there's no need for a "designer" in order for life to spontaneously emerge. In which case, your God is redundant. Learn to think, man. You creationists and Bible thumpers don't even realize you're contradicting yourselves.


OF course - life always existed because God always existed. As the ultimate source of life - he had the capacity to share life. Thus the Creator of Life. Simple as that. Learn to think man.


Oh, so life always existed! No need for a creator then!

I knew you'd see it my way. Thanks for clearing that up.


As for redundancy, there's ONLY ONE Creator - Jehovah God. No one created him thus no redundancy. Why you can't figure this out I don't know.

Question is - if you can't believe that God exist, why do you believe that there's such thing as Infinity and infinite space?

tc.






Blah blah blah. Even Toothy is more coherent than you are. Why don't you stop ranting and show us some evidence for your position!



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Blah blah blah. Even Toothy is more coherent than you are. Why don't you stop ranting and show us some evidence for your position!


why can't you answer my simple Q?

if you can't believe that God exist, why do you believe that there's such thing as Infinity and infinite space?



tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Blah blah blah. Even Toothy is more coherent than you are. Why don't you stop ranting and show us some evidence for your position!


why can't you answer my simple Q?

if you can't believe that God exist, why do you believe that there's such thing as Infinity and infinite space?



tc.


Strawman. Where did I ever say that I don't believe God exists? Also, why is a god necessary for infinity?



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Strawman. Where did I ever say that I don't believe God exists? Also, why is a god necessary for infinity?


OK - so you do believe that God exist.

Infinity gives us a little bit of understanding about the existence of God in that they go hand and hand.

If infinity exist why can't God exist, if God exist what can't infinity exist.

simple as that.

Q is - you said you believe that God exist, do you believe then that he's the source of life - the source of E=mc2?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





Strawman. Where did I ever say that I don't believe God exists? Also, why is a god necessary for infinity?


OK - so you do believe that God exist.

Infinity gives us a little bit of understanding about the existence of God in that they go hand and hand.

If infinity exist why can't God exist, if God exist what can't infinity exist.

simple as that.

Q is - you said you believe that God exist, do you believe then that he's the source of life - the source of E=mc2?

tc.


The source of relativity?

No, I don't believe God is the source of life or a creator. There's simply no reason to believe we or the universe are created--a god isn't necessary for life or the universe.
edit on 3/13/2012 by HappyBunny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by MrXYZ
 





And more preaching, and zero facts


Still no answer to my simple Q mr xyz?

what-up?

tc.


No one can answer you questions because we don't have the means to do so, or objective evidence to make any claims.

You simply claim to have answers when it's clear that you're just as clueless as the rest of us. The difference is, you seemingly can't live with not knowing, so you fill a gap in knowledge with magic...aka your god. You're doing the same thing Hindus, Muslims, and the spaghetti monster guys do


You're essentially coming on here saying:"You don't have an answer, ergo magic did it!"

The problem with that is that a TON of stuff people attributed to god in the past is now demonstrably not an act of god. But who cares about facts, right?



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





No, I don't believe God is the source of life or a creator. There's simply no reason to believe we or the universe are created--a god isn't necessary for life or the universe.


So you believe that God exist but he has nothing to do with the creation of life or for that matter the universe.

Are you saying then that life and the universe just came to be by unguided chance events?

If so is this based on faith or scientific facts?

That spontaneous generation is not only possible but a fact?

How incoherent is that?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by MrXYZ
 





And more preaching, and zero facts


Still no answer to my simple Q mr xyz?

what-up?

tc.


No one can answer you questions because we don't have the means to do so, or objective evidence to make any claims.

You simply claim to have answers when it's clear that you're just as clueless as the rest of us. The difference is, you seemingly can't live with not knowing, so you fill a gap in knowledge with magic...aka your god. You're doing the same thing Hindus, Muslims, and the spaghetti monster guys do


You're essentially coming on here saying:"You don't have an answer, ergo magic did it!"

The problem with that is that a TON of stuff people attributed to god in the past is now demonstrably not an act of god. But who cares about facts, right?


How can you be so sure then that the Creator of Life - Jehovah God does not exist if you admit that...



No one can answer you questions because we don't have the means to do so, or objective evidence to make any claims.


I on other hand is 100% sure that he exist because intelligent life itself exist.

So does God exist?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





No, I don't believe God is the source of life or a creator. There's simply no reason to believe we or the universe are created--a god isn't necessary for life or the universe.


So you believe that God exist but he has nothing to do with the creation of life or for that matter the universe.

Correct.


Are you saying then that life and the universe just came to be by unguided chance events?


Correct.


If so is this based on faith or scientific facts?


It's based on physics, although I do not discount the possibility that there is a creator god. Unlike you, on the other hand, who can't and won't admit you might be wrong.


That spontaneous generation is not only possible but a fact?


Nobody knows the answer to that question although if we were betting, I'd take spontaneous generation over some mythical being any day. Nice try baiting me into it, though.


How incoherent is that?


A lot more coherent than you. It's no one's fault but your own if you can't see past the nose on your face and see how illogical your FAITH is. Faith teaches you to not think at all and to just believe. You're blinded and you don't even know it.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 





How can you be so sure then that the Creator of Life - Jehovah God does not exist if you admit that...


Not saying there is no god (Jehova, Allah, whatever...), I'm just saying there is ZERO objective evidence suggesting there is...which is why it's ridiculous to pretend god's existence is fact. In fact, it's laughable and shows a great deal of ignorance.




I on other hand is 100% sure that he exist because intelligent life itself exist.


That's not objective evidence or proof! You are stating a BELIEF, not a fact...yet you pretend it's factual. That's incredibly dishonest, kinda like a snake oil salesman.

You might just as well say "I believe god exists because cucumbers are green"





So does God exist?


Do unicorns exist? What about elves? What about the giant purple space turtle?

No proof of those things, just like there's no proof of the existence of any god(s).


You might wanna read up on the difference between "facts" and "belief"
edit on 13-3-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

How can you be so sure then that the Creator of Life - Jehovah God does not exist if you admit that...


Argument from ignorance.


I on other hand is 100% sure that he exist because intelligent life itself exist.


Argument from design.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by HappyBunny
 





It's based on physics, although I do not discount the possibility that there is a creator god. Unlike you, on the other hand, who can't and won't admit you might be wrong.


So spontaneous generation is based on physics - sure 'bout that?

And by physics - can you cite just one example / lab experiment if you will of "LIFE" spontaneously generating?

If you can please let me know because this is the "HOLY GRAIL" that evolutionist/atheist had been looking for, for quite a while now.




Nobody knows the answer to that question although if we were betting, I'd take spontaneous generation over some mythical being any day. Nice try baiting me into it, though.


So the god that you're referring to is a mythical being? OK - now it's becoming clearer to me. You believe in myth.




Faith teaches you to not think at all and to just believe.


That's blind FAITH you're referring to - just like the faith that unbelievers have that blind chance events created everything.

Do you believe that unguided blind chance events created everything?

But TRUE FAITH is:

“Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Hebrews 11:1)

"...the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”

Just like I have faith that the sun will shine again tomorrow.

Q is - how strong is your faith that life spontaneously generated?

Where is this faith of yours based from?

Reality or made up stories like spontaneous generation?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 





You believe in myth.


So do you...




That's blind FAITH you're referring to...


Pot meets kettle





Where is this faith of yours based from? Reality or made up stories like spontaneous generation?


Given your posts I don't think you're in any position criticizing anyone's sense of reality



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 





Not saying there is no god (Jehova, Allah, whatever...), I'm just saying there is ZERO objective evidence suggesting there is...which is why it's ridiculous to pretend god's existence is fact. In fact, it's laughable and shows a great deal of ignorance.


So what's the difference in saying that



Not saying there is no god (Jehova, Allah, whatever...)


and



there is ZERO objective evidence suggesting there is


jezz, why the beating around the bush? Why not just say there's no God if that's what you believe or else you're like this person on fence who can't make up his mind.




That's not objective evidence or proof! You are stating a BELIEF, not a fact...yet you pretend it's factual. That's incredibly dishonest, kinda like a snake oil salesman.

You might just as well say "I believe god exists because cucumbers are green"


Whats "incredibly dishonest" about saying "he exist because intelligent life itself exist."

We're not or I should say humans are not dumb as a cucumber. Fact that intelligent life exist gives abundant proof of God's existence.

And that's a fact not just my belief.

Q is - can blind chance create a simple cucumber - green at that?

tc.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by HappyBunny
 





It's based on physics, although I do not discount the possibility that there is a creator god. Unlike you, on the other hand, who can't and won't admit you might be wrong.


So spontaneous generation is based on physics - sure 'bout that?


More sure than I am of some magical, supernatural spaghetti monster saying, "Poof! Let there be light."


And by physics - can you cite just one example / lab experiment if you will of "LIFE" spontaneously generating?


There is a whole subfield of biochemistry called biophysics. ALL living organisms obey the laws of physics.

You know full well we haven't accomplished that yet--but we are getting close. Can you cite just one example of life being created by supernatural means? The term "spontaneous generation" is obsolete, by the way. We don't call it that anymore. We call it "abiogenesis".

The biggest mistake you make is in drawing a clear line between life and not-life, when in reality there's probably a gradient. Many things in nature self-organize and replicate, not just "life." Crystals are one such, and viruses are not technically alive, but the way they self-replicate in a host cell is breathtaking.


If you can please let me know because this is the "HOLY GRAIL" that evolutionist/atheist had been looking for, for quite a while now.


Another straw man. Most evolutionists are NOT atheists.





Nobody knows the answer to that question although if we were betting, I'd take spontaneous generation over some mythical being any day. Nice try baiting me into it, though.


So the god that you're referring to is a mythical being? OK - now it's becoming clearer to me. You believe in myth.


And that's all it is--myth. I don't elevate it to fact-beyond-question.

What I don't believe in is the idea of a god as a creator. My idea of god is a unifying force behind the structure of the universe and life. The hand of god is in everything--but it didn't create it. It is part and parcel of creation--it doesn't stand above creation. I don't expect you to understand that view, though.



That's blind FAITH you're referring to - just like the faith that unbelievers have that blind chance events created everything.


Atheism is not a religion.


Do you believe that unguided blind chance events created everything?


Random and blind chance aren't the same thing. I THINK it was random.


But TRUE FAITH is:

“Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Hebrews 11:1)

"...the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”


Circular argument. You're using the Bible as proof that the Bible is true.


Just like I have faith that the sun will shine again tomorrow.


You sure about that? It could explode or wink out at any moment, you know.

And why do you have faith in that? Because science has made it possible for you to take it for granted.


Q is - how strong is your faith that life spontaneously generated?

Where is this faith of yours based from?


By the application of Occam's razor and parsimony.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 





And that's a fact not just my belief.


FACT

BELIEF

Just figured this might come in handy as you clearly don't understand the difference between the two



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 





Nobody has...which is why rational people including scientists simply admit that they "don't know (yet)". You on the other hand simply can't deal with that and therefore fill a lack of knowledge with magic (aka god). As I said, you're presenting one prime example of "god of the gaps" after the other...thanks for that


They are in no position then to say that there's no Creator of life - because "scientists simply admit that they "don't know (yet)"

Correct?

If so do you agree then that there's a possibility that life was created by an intelligent being?

tc.

..sorry ...gotta go....later dude.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


I don't have a problem with people stating their beliefs, I only have a problem with people pretending their beliefs that aren't backed by objective evidence (like yours) are facts. Because that's the very definition of "blind faith".





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