The most astounding fact!

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


I feel very much like you...

Nice video

If you're interested, here are two good links:

Bad Astronomy: Great astronomy blog with some amazing pictures and analysis. Easy to understand, the author does a great job at simplifying things.

Startalk Radio: Neil DeGrasse Tyson's podcast...brilliant and funny. His co-hosts are often comedians.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Let's start with the real failures of the bible. Lots of myths have a beginning. Myths from around the world talk about a beginning for the world and the universe. It would seem that in this respect the bible is not special with that claim.

Genesis has 2 creation myths that are not the same. The bible cannot even agree with itself. In one man and woman are created at the same time. In the other man and woman are created at different times. In one great whales are created before cattle and beasts. The fossil record shows that to be wrong. The stories have the order wrong for the creation of the solar system.

It's a mess.

In other words Genesis 1:1 is correct when it says that the universe and the earth had a beginning.

I take that as a yes. Thank you.

SO the issue with the Bible to you is that you view it as a myth and contradictory. That's understandable especially to someone who doesn't know its contents and the sequence of events.

Here's another:

We just recently learned in the modern century that the earth is being held by an unseen force - we call this invisible force as gravity.

The Bible says that the "earth is hanging upon nothing" -Job 26:7.

Did the Bible writer got it right or not?

Furthermore, where did the Bible writer get this space age information if it was written more than 2500 years ago? Way before the advent of space travel.

Any idea?

tc

reply to post by MrXYZ

It also claims humans just popped up on earth in their current form, and the entire human race comes from 2 fully formed homo sapiens (Adam & Eve)...which we know for a FACT isn't true. It also claims the earth was created before the sun, which is also wrong.

No, people just didn't "popped up on earth". The Bible states that they were formed / created from the ground - the elements on the ground - elements that are found in the stars as Mr Tyson states.

“. . .And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7)

Do you disagree with this fact?

As for the creative events -

Like I said - people like you are confuse because you don't know the contents of the Bible.

Simple as that.

tc.

reply to post by edmc^2

In other words Genesis 1:1 is correct when it says that the universe and the earth had a beginning.

I take that as a yes. Thank you.

Wow. One thing right and a trivial issue at that since most cultures describe a beginning.

SO the issue with the Bible to you is that you view it as a myth and contradictory. That's understandable especially to someone who doesn't know its contents and the sequence of events.

So please defend the 2 contradictory creation myths in genesis.

We just recently learned in the modern century that the earth is being held by an unseen force - we call this invisible force as gravity.

You off by centuries.

The Bible says that the "earth is hanging upon nothing" -Job 26:7.

It's laughable that you think this suggests gravity. The Earth is not hanging.

Did the Bible writer got it right or not?

Obviously no.

Furthermore, where did the Bible writer get this space age information if it was written more than 2500 years ago? Way before the advent of space travel.

None of that is space age. Gravity is a well known force. It has been known about as long as people have existed. The Job verse suggests makes the claim that God supports the Earth rather than the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas.

Regardless of this verse, Genesis is wrong.

reply to post by stereologist

Wow. One thing right and a trivial issue at that since most cultures describe a beginning.

In other words the Bible got it right. Thank you.

Since the statement made in Genesis 1:1 was written more than 3000 years ago - way before we formulated the Big Bang Theory and the Singularity Theory - question is:

Where did the Bible writer got the information from?

So please defend the 2 contradictory creation myths in genesis.

What "2 contradictory creation myths" are you talking about? Please elaborate.

It's laughable that you think this suggests gravity. The Earth is not hanging.

OK - before the word "gravity" was coined - what was the definition of the force that was holding the earth in space?

Remember - the Bible was written way before scientific studies was even known, thus the writer used common knowledge, common day to day words that his readers will understand.

None of that is space age. Gravity is a well known force. It has been known about as long as people have existed.

This is funny.

If you really know what you're talking about - who coined the word GRAVITY? When was it discovered?

The Job verse suggests makes the claim that God supports the Earth rather than the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas. Regardless of this verse, Genesis is wrong.

So are you saying that the "the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas."? Or are you saying that the Bible is stating that?

Please clarify.

tc.

Wow. Great video reminds me of what a great Creator I have. It amazes me that people think this is random.

Originally posted by lucidclouds
Wow. Great video reminds me of what a great Creator I have. It amazes me that people think this is random.

I share your view as did the prophet Isaiah who was told by the Creator:

“. . .“But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One.

“Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.” (Isaiah 40:25, 26)

Its' "The most astounding fact!" Indeed!!

tc.

To the OP, what in science made you a Atheist? I never understand this. Agnostic I can see, but there is no evidence that there is no God. And you can say that there is no evidence that there is, so then we just don't know for sure.

Or was it nothing in science and just your belief system?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wondering.

We just recently learned in the modern century that the earth is being held by an unseen force - we call this invisible force as gravity.

The Bible says that the "earth is hanging upon nothing" -Job 26:7.

So you believe that gravity = nothing?

reply to post by edmc^2

In other words the Bible got it right. Thank you.

Since the statement made in Genesis 1:1 was written more than 3000 years ago - way before we formulated the Big Bang Theory and the Singularity Theory - question is:

Where did the Bible writer got the information from?

The bible myth has nothing to do with the big bang. The writer borrowed this tale. The Hopi creation myth is not about the big bang. The Mayan creation myth is not about the big bang. None of the creation myths are about the big bang. Your claim is as absurd as any I have heard from a bible thumper.

What "2 contradictory creation myths" are you talking about? Please elaborate.

I thought you had read the bible?

OK - before the word "gravity" was coined - what was the definition of the force that was holding the earth in space?

There is no force holding the Earth in space. Ancient people knew that a dropped rock falls to Earth. You apparently have no idea what idea discovered that is descried witht he apocryphal story of the falling apple.

If you really know what you're talking about - who coined the word GRAVITY? When was it discovered?

The term gravity is not important. That is an English word. The ancients knew about gravity.

So are you saying that the "the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas."? Or are you saying that the Bible is stating that?

Please reread my post and you will discover your mistake.

reply to post by lucidclouds

Wow. Great video reminds me of what a great Creator I have. It amazes me that people think this is random.

Maybe you do not understand what random means. I believe that is the source of many incorrect ideas.

In a famous book on stochastic geometry a problem is posed. Using 3 different definitions for random the authors provide answers of 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2. Each answer is appropriate for the 3 different definitions of random.

reply to post by lucidclouds

To the OP, what in science made you a Atheist? I never understand this. Agnostic I can see, but there is no evidence that there is no God. And you can say that there is no evidence that there is, so then we just don't know for sure.

Or was it nothing in science and just your belief system?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wondering.

As you say, not trying to pick a fight.

Word substitution can be useful in attempting to understand a different point of view. What if the following were stated:

There is no evidence that there is no flying spaghetti monster. And you can say that there is no evidence that there is, so then we just don't know for sure.

Would you be willing to be agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the wondrous noodley appendages?

reply to post by stereologist

The bible myth has nothing to do with the big bang. The writer borrowed this tale. The Hopi creation myth is not about the big bang. The Mayan creation myth is not about the big bang. None of the creation myths are about the big bang. Your claim is as absurd as any I have heard from a bible thumper.

It's interesting to note that the Bible actually agrees with the Big Bang Theory - a beginning - and yet you call it a myth. Can't handle the truth?

I thought you had read the bible?

Yes I did, cover to cover twice already and going on my third and the myth that you've mentioned is not just there. So I asked you, what "2 contradictory creation myths" are you talking about? Please elaborate.

There is no force holding the Earth in space. Ancient people knew that a dropped rock falls to Earth. You apparently have no idea what idea discovered that is descried witht he apocryphal story of the falling apple.

...

The term gravity is not important. That is an English word. The ancients knew about gravity.

SO what's your definition of the invisible force that is - to very technical - keeping the earth in its place in space at its axis as it orbits around the sun in the solar system in the Milky way galaxy?

What is this unseen force if you don't want to use the scientific term gravity?


Lastly, let me restate:

Are you saying that the bible claims that "God supports the Earth rather than the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas."?

Here's Job 26:7 again, in poetic way the Bible writer says:

“He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing;” (Job 26:7)

I know you don't believe the later because it's not true so you must be saying that "God supports the Earth", correct?

tc.

Originally posted by Barcs

We just recently learned in the modern century that the earth is being held by an unseen force - we call this invisible force as gravity.

The Bible says that the "earth is hanging upon nothing" -Job 26:7.

So you believe that gravity = nothing?

Technically or Scientifically speaking Barcs we call it GRAVITY.

But to a nomadic tribe, such scientific fact will be describe according to his level of understanding - that is an unseen force or invisible force - in a poetic description - is "nothing". Why? because it's invisible to the naked eye.

Besides in it's original Heb word - the word "nothing" literally means "not any thing".

And it's for this fact that one publication describes the advantage of using such description:

Notice:

The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says:

“Job 26:7 strikingly pictures the then-known world as suspended in space, thereby anticipating future scientific discovery.”

So the writer of the Bible is not at all in violation with scientific facts when he said in a poetic way:

He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing;

to say otherwise is plane ignorance.

Question to you is - where did the Bible writer get his information from more that 3000 years ago?

tc.

reply to post by edmc^2

It's interesting to note that the Bible actually agrees with the Big Bang Theory - a beginning - and yet you call it a myth. Can't handle the truth?

The myth does not reflect reality. It's a myth like all of the other creation myths. It's not even a lucky guess. It's no better than the flip of a coin.

Yes I did, cover to cover twice already and going on my third and the myth that you've mentioned is not just there. So I asked you, what "2 contradictory creation myths" are you talking about? Please elaborate.

Obviously you have not read the bible.

SO what's your definition of the invisible force that is - to very technical - keeping the earth in its place in space at its axis as it orbits around the sun in the solar system in the Milky way galaxy?

Now you are changing the situation.

Are you saying that the bible claims that "God supports the Earth rather than the Earth sitting on something such as the back of a turtle or Atlas."?

I stated no such thing. This is a typical tactic used by the creationist lecturers I have watched tell lies.

reply to post by edmc^2

Technically or Scientifically speaking Barcs we call it GRAVITY.

That has nothing to do with the verse you pulled out of Job.

Question to you is - where did the Bible writer get his information from more that 3000 years ago?

The bible writer did not mean any of this. Are these ludicrous claims being made to make Sitchin look respectable?

reply to post by stereologist



Sorry dude/dudette, but it just occurred to me that I'm conversing with a person who has no concept of what the Big Bang Theory or the singularity is all about and what laws that govern the universe.

If you can't understand these things how can you even understand the Bible.

For how can you say and believe that

There is no force holding the Earth in space.

While textbooks upon textbooks and studies upon studies and many scientific minds say otherwise.

It's just a waste of time conversing with you - good luck with your myth theory.

tc

reply to post by edmc^2


Why do you guys always have to bring Religion into every topic concerning the universe or science. It is not your enemy, and neither are we.

You are trashing this thread. No one else wants to participate in it because we just don't feel like being jumped on by the religious group.

The original poster did not put any religious context in the OP as he clearly didn't want to be a part of a religious debate, so why even bring it up in the first place?

reply to post by edmc^2

While textbooks upon textbooks and studies upon studies and many scientific minds say otherwise.

That is false. It is very typical of bible thumpers to purposely misrepresent in order to make feeble efforts to match up the bible with reality.

From the 2 conflicting myths in genesis to the utter failure of exodus.

Take the bad claim that the following discusses gravity.

The Bible says that the "earth is hanging upon nothing" -Job 26:7.

This is followed with this absurdity.

OK - before the word "gravity" was coined - what was the definition of the force that was holding the earth in space?

As I stated there is no force holding earth in space.

Sure there are forces acting upon the Earth, but there are no forces holding Earth in space. People that think that a force is needed to hold earth in space either do not understand gravity or are misrepresenting the situation in order to continue to latch onto the failure that is the bible.

So out pops this state which is not the same as before. It isn't correct, but it is trending more towards the correct statement. These sorts of mistakes are used by creationists to support the failed bible.

SO what's your definition of the invisible force that is - to very technical - keeping the earth in its place in space at its axis as it orbits around the sun in the solar system in the Milky way galaxy?

Are these based on a poor understanding of physics? Not sure. It may be a willful effort to support the failure of the bible at all costs.

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Why do you guys always have to bring Religion into every topic concerning the universe or science. It is not your enemy, and neither are we.

You are trashing this thread. No one else wants to participate in it because we just don't feel like being jumped on by the religious group.

The original poster did not put any religious context in the OP as he clearly didn't want to be a part of a religious debate, so why even bring it up in the first place?

dude/dudette,

For a moment there I thought I was the wrong forum - so I went back and double checked.

the forum title says:



And below is my first post here:

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

It all comes back to this - the MOST ASTOUNDING FACT!

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”—Gen. 1:1.

Can't get away from this fact.

tc

Since I believe that life and everything else is the result of creation why should I say otherwise?

As for thrashing this thread - what?? I didn't do such a thing. In fact I waited for a while to join the conversation and see what others will say about the OP.

But talked about thrashing - get a load of this thrashing - as soon as I posted my thread, I got a quick reply below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/12f799e72c57.jpg[/atsimg]

note: I wasn't going to post the pic above as it still annoys me, but if I don't show it, you wouldn't understand what thrashing is all about by people who can't deal with facts.

check the 2nd post on the thread below to see the rest of the post - quite annoying.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now tell me who's thrashing whom? Be honest please.

tc