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Has the Time Come to Start Taxing Online Game Currency?

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posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by insanedr4gon
My god these people are greedy! So are they going to tax my gold in World of Warcraft, is that going to be the one place where the rich actually pay taxes?


This deserves just as bit a "face-palm" as the discussion presented in the OP.....Do you think the most wealthiest persons are wasting their time away at World of Warcraft? Playing mindlessly while their peasants slave away?



So many questions, so much ignorance, such greedy people in power.


Indeed....starting with your post.




posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


What? Many countries, including the US allow dual citizenship..... Why should I pay taxes to the canadian government, and to the US government, when the money I make now is in canada?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


First, it's Expatriate.




An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing.

General Source

So when you were "in the sandbox".. you should have lost your citizenship?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


What? Many countries, including the US allow dual citizenship..... Why should I pay taxes to the canadian government, and to the US government, when the money I make now is in canada?


Because I guarantee if something happened to you while in that country, you would expect the USA to come to your aid.

That is like telling your parents you are moving away from home but you still want them to pay your insurance...

What is your reasoning for keeping dual citizenship?

Either you:

a) are a foreign worker and still a citizen of the USA working on a foreign visa...

or,

b) you are becoming a citizen of a foreign nation and are trying to establish residency in a foreign land, with no inclination of returning to the USA.

That is what work visas are for. Working for a period of time before returning to your original country.

People have this scenario completely twisted... and feel that they are entitled to being an American citizen while spending the rest of their lives as a citizen of a foreign nation.

I say screw that, you are only a citizen of one country. You can work in others, but you belong to ONE.

The term double-agent comes to mind...


Edit: "so you should have lost your citizenship"

You are comparing apples and oranges.

In your post, you referred to people living abroad trying to avoid taxes.

In my post, I said the government allowed me to not pay taxes.

Two COMPLETELY different scenarios.

If you are trying to avoid US taxes while living in a foreign land and trying to keep your citizenship...

Absolutely, revoke the citizenship.

Absolutely.
edit on 4-3-2012 by YouAreLiedTo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 





When I worked in the sandbox setting up communications for the DoD, they offered me a tax-free contract. But I didn't avoid the laws.


This leads me to believe you lived in another country.




I don't really know a great deal about tax laws, but if someone left the USA as an expatriot, the government should revoke their citizenship in the first place.


So by your standard, anyone that leaves the US to live or work should have their citizenship revoked. Remember what the term means?

-----




In your post, you referred to people living abroad trying to avoid taxes.


Care to point out that post? Or are you once again confused and not sure whom you are responding to, and from what source?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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Ok OP,

Sorry we got so far off topic.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
reply to post by AzureSky
 

I can see the government wanting a piece of that action... and for a pretty good reason. The servers are hosted in the USA, you are making money based in the USA, and they want you paying taxes on that income to the USA.


I can see that side but how to explain this then? It doesn't matter where it's earned. If you have that citizenship, your ass is owned.
www.taxmeless.com...

As a U.S. expatriate residing in abroad, you still must file a US Income Tax Return each year on your worldwide income! The stories you hear from the fellow American expatriate sitting next to you at the bar that once you leave the U.S., you no longer owe any taxes or have to file tax returns , are about as true as most bar room tales. Its against the law to give up your U.S. citizenship in order to avoid U.S. taxes! Therefore, if you aren't filing your U.S. tax return, the statute of limitations on tax collections will not run out and your tax return obligation (and perhaps the taxes you owe) only grows greater as each year passes.


My apologies. I was referring to this guy who posted this quote.

If you are trying to avoid tax laws... you are breaking the law. Period.

As for you saying I was living abroad, a six-month contract to work in a foreign country is completely different than someone filing for dual citizenship to avoid paying taxes.

Again...

There are work visas FOR A REASON.

No one is telling you working in another country is wrong. What I am saying is that living in a foreign country and filing for citizenship, just to avoid paying your US taxes, is wrong.

What part of this is coming off as confusing?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


Ok, I see where my misunderstanding was.. you said that if anyone leaves the US as an expatriate that they should have their citizen revoked, when what you meant was if they file for dual citizenship to avoid taxes then they should lose their citizenship. Those are two completely different things, but I understand your point now.

Dual citizenship makes travel back to your homeland much easier, even if you never intend on living there. I disagree that there shouldn't be dual citizenship, as wanting to live in another country in and of itself, is not a crime.

You also retain your rights in your home country as a dual citizen. Why should you lose your rights that are recognized as given by birth just because you choose to live somewhere else?

Cheers.

edit on 4-3-2012 by broahes because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-3-2012 by broahes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by broahes
Ok OP,

Sorry we got so far off topic.


Yeah, I was wondering when it would come full circle back to the OP...


It was fun watching the turn tho.

But back to it...Follow the link in the 2nd post on taxes to see 200+ taxes already being paid by the people.

Angry doesn't even begin to describe it.

Peace



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by jude11
 


The topic at hand is, at least as I see it, a sign that we have screwed up thoroughly somewhere along the way.

Where?

Everywhere..

We have given government control of the reigns, when that can only lead to more of just what we see today.. a complete collapse of ability to govern. In reality, only I can govern my life. To believe that something outside of me can do this is a rejection of reality. Through the mentality of being completely taken care of, government is forced in many ways, by the people to pass legislation such as this, to continue to support that illusion.

In short, it's a big cluster#.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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Yes it seems we have taken this thread to a completely different venue, and for that I apologize.

Sorry for the misunderstandings and having thoughts get confuzzled, I just simply don't believe in dual citizenship.

You are born here and are granted the rights and freedoms of a US citizen, but when you say screw living in America and paying US taxes, I say screw you being treated as a true citizen.

Yes, it makes it easier to travel, but it is not like visiting the USA is hard by any means...

I mean, the USA is the second-highest tourism country in the world. Other people don't seem to have any trouble visiting...

Again, it all comes back to people feelings of entitlement...

But to get back on topic...

Americans pay way too many taxes in general, that I will not argue.

That isn't even getting into the legality issue of said taxes (like the federal income tax).

It's a sad state of affairs no matter what window you look through...



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 

Expect the USA to come to my aid? The USA didn't come to my aid when I lived there, why on earth would I expect them to come to my aid now that I live in canada? The USA said sorry, you are not rich enough, your are not too big to fail. I lost my business and my house in NY, I would have to be delusional to think they might come to my aid when I live across the border. The fact that I was born in the US, and moved to canada, does not change the fact I can be a dual citizen though.......



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
Yes it seems we have taken this thread to a completely different venue, and for that I apologize.

Sorry for the misunderstandings and having thoughts get confuzzled, I just simply don't believe in dual citizenship.

You are born here and are granted the rights and freedoms of a US citizen, but when you say screw living in America and paying US taxes, I say screw you being treated as a true citizen.

Yes, it makes it easier to travel, but it is not like visiting the USA is hard by any means...

I mean, the USA is the second-highest tourism country in the world. Other people don't seem to have any trouble visiting...

Again, it all comes back to people feelings of entitlement...

But to get back on topic...

Americans pay way too many taxes in general, that I will not argue.

That isn't even getting into the legality issue of said taxes (like the federal income tax).

It's a sad state of affairs no matter what window you look through...


I don't think it was too far off course tho.

Taxes is taxes and this is yet another grab at our pockets. This makes us all angry so it's pretty much on topic...almost.


peace



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 

Expect the USA to come to my aid? The USA didn't come to my aid when I lived there, why on earth would I expect them to come to my aid now that I live in canada? The USA said sorry, you are not rich enough, your are not too big to fail. I lost my business and my house in NY, I would have to be delusional to think they might come to my aid when I live across the border. The fact that I was born in the US, and moved to canada, does not change the fact I can be a dual citizen though.......



Let a government try locking you up on some trumped up charges and let's see how fast you call your nearest embassy.

I'm not arguing that America is perfect. I am not saying everything we do is right. I absolutely HATE some things about this country... and I would absolutely give my life to protect others.

That still doesn't mean I have to believe in dual-citizenship.

That is like saying, "Screw America, they screwed me over so I left. But... where is my absentee ballot, I want to vote..."

Do you still participate in American elections?



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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Everytime the civil world creates a new nicety for itself the government tries to tax it, its classic. Remember reading about the Boston tea party? All kinds of laws every where you turn are for nothing other than filling some rich guys pockets, what do people do? Bend over and take it, I guess times have changed huh?

A couple hundred years ago we would have threw them and their # in the ocean. Enjoy your new politically correct, perfect world where we can't breath without being incarcerated for 25 years.
edit on 5-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 01:00 AM
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This is really odd.

How would I pay the taxes?

-Log in

-You have a new quest: Taxation without representation!

Mission Op: Find Taxie the gnome, and pay him a percent of all you have earned in the land of fancyness.

--And what happens if I don't finish the quest?

Mission failed: Taxie will be by shortly to take your +10 sword of tax evasion.

(I mean, if I don't pay my virtual taxes are they going to take my virtual house? Are they going to sieze my virtual job earnings? Or do they take my real money? My real house?)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by adigregorio
This is really odd.

How would I pay the taxes?

-Log in

-You have a new quest: Taxation without representation!

Mission Op: Find Taxie the gnome, and pay him a percent of all you have earned in the land of fancyness.

--And what happens if I don't finish the quest?

Mission failed: Taxie will be by shortly to take your +10 sword of tax evasion.

(I mean, if I don't pay my virtual taxes are they going to take my virtual house? Are they going to sieze my virtual job earnings? Or do they take my real money? My real house?)


Unfortunately, virtual crap smells like the real thing.

Even when you can't see it, the crap still leaves a stench...and that ain't fake.


Peace



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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To my knowledge, mmorpgs have within the license agreement something that basically says they own everything, you own nothing. Which seems like a bummer, but in that case, there would be nothing to tax. Nothing was created and nothing ever left the hands of the owners of the mmorpg.

It's also within the agreement that selling ingame currency or items is forbidden. Would the IRS be given ingame currency as tax, which they can't do anything with since they don't play the game and can't sell it. Or would they be given dollars based on illegal actions by players of the game selling currency or items, for which if players didn't sell, there would be no way tax could even be calculated.

I suppose you do have games like Second Life which are a bit different than other mmorpgs, but Second Life isn't big enough to really be worth much attention, and the former might still apply.
edit on 5-3-2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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To all you WoW players out there, read about the saint you keep making richer:

en.wikipedia.org...

www.gamerevolution.com...

And there's a lot more to it than that, this guy openly talks about exploiting his fan base. It's sad people keep reliably paying for his computer crack while he mocks them for it.
edit on 5-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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That would be double taxing! You already get taxed when you buy online currency (like xbox live credits).
Or are you talking about games like WoW etc where players can mine gold and get credit etc.?



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