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Infant's death at Maimonides Hospital linked to circumcision

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posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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Why would anyone suck a baby penis........WTF




posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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Okay, consulted someone. It's very much real. It's still in practice as a part of their religious doctrine.

Talmud Circumcision


Mezizah: By this is meant the sucking of the blood from the wound. The mohel takes some wine in his mouth and applies his lips to the part involved in the operation, and exerts suction, after which he expels the mixture of wine and blood into a receptacle (see Fig. 4, below) provided for the purpose. This procedure is repeated several times, and completes the operation, except as to the control of the bleeding and the dressing of the wound.


what the actual Ffff



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by el1jah
 


From your source article:


Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth — a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried “inherent risks” for babies.


Are you #ing kidding me?? When I read your snippet, I seen oral so I had to gain clarity as to what it meant. I must say, shocked is not even the term to describe it.

Seriously? So the process goes something like.. cut the foreskin, then the rabbi sucks the blood from the baby's dick? I'm sorry for being graffic, but goddamn. That is beyond a simple sanitary/health issue.

It's oral sex on an infant.

WOW.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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I had no idea the practice was so dangerous.Still, dont expect the Jews to give up that tradition anytime soon though.Those numbers are tragic and very sad.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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Ok this needs to get out, why is it that nobody I've talked to knew this. My girlfriend's jaw just dropped when I told her....I just dont want to think of it as oral sex, either it's a block in my mind or I dont know I'm completely utterly disturbed.
What I find most bothersom is that under the guise of religion... because some dusty book says so, this is accepted by what I presume to be millions of people.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by el1jah
 


I hear ya. I just showed the link to my wife. We were both shocked.

Now given, neither of us are religious, nor do we really have any issues with those that are.. BUT really.. take away all the religious hoopla from this and it's completely disgusting and should be viewed as such, even by the religious members of the ATS community.

I seriously haven't been this outraged in a LONG time. The words escape me..
edit on 4-3-2012 by broahes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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I remember the first time this caused controversy back in 2005.

At the time I remember being puzzled by this because I have attended circumcisions before and I have never seen that ritual performed.

After reading the articles in 2005 I did ask a Rabbi about this, as I found it odd that as someone who had been to this ceremony I had never seen it.

He told me that the practice is 2,000 years old (while the circumcision ritual is far older) and was believed at the time to help the wound heal faster. I wouldn't attempt to understand the medical beliefs of society 2,000 years ago but I guess they believed that a suction at the wound site helped it heal. My assumption is that they did not have bulb syringes or portable suction units at that time so they did what they had.

He also told me that the practice is not a part of the circumcision rite itself but rather that certain people still did it because it's what was done for so long.

That certainly helped explain the act and its background, however I still didn't understand why it appeared not to be done by anyone. The answer given was that the tradition had fallen out of favor in modern times due to changing scientific knowledge and health concerns. Whatever benefits were believed to be had must have been proven wrong over 2000 years. This happens. The world is no longer thought of as flat either. However, it appeared from his statements that there were only a microscopic amount of people that did this anymore, and those who did typically used a small glass pipette as an intermediary to prevent direct contact. Direct contact must then be a tiny group within an a tiny group.

Apologies for the wordiness but most was typed from memory except the part about the glass which was from a follow up email he sent me.

Either way, based on that, and my own reading, it would appear that this is an extremely rare practice in modern times.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


Thank you for replying with your experience. I was just searching for some info as to how widely this is still accepted and couldn't really find too much. I've never attended one, so in this case, I'll take your word from personal experience to be far more of a norm than what I had built up in the mind.

I still think it's a sick practice, especially in the modern times in which we live.. but it's nice to hear that it isn't as widely used as I had in mind.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


That is a partial - yet great relief.

It makes sense that 2000 years ago, (as it would today) sucking on a wound could help reduce the chance of infection.

Like you mentioned, the act of circumcision is much older than this procedure or even the Talmud where it is written. So I can see why it is easier to let go of. The Mohel responsible for giving those two babies herpes should be charged with manslaughter... and the oral practice be prohibited. Generally speaking, circumcision just doesnt seem like a sensible risk to be taking, no matter what the tradition.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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You mean to tell me that no one here has cut their finger on accident and stuck their finger in their mouth to stop the bleeding? It is by no means a sexual thing. Religious circumcision started with Abraham as a means of forming a covenant with God.

The big difference between Jewish circumcision and what used to be standard medical practice circumcision (done without even bothering to ask the parents--thank you Dr. Kellogg you creepy nutter) is that less of the foreskin and nerve endings is removed. And medical circumcision is done by crushing the tissue (all those blood vessels and nerve endings) until it is removed.

Also note that the sucking of the blood orally is not always performed. Typically a glass tube is used because it can be sterilized or the blood can be wiped away with a disposable sponge or cloth.

All that said, this particular mohel is probably passing HSV1 to newborn babies because he contracted it at some point in his life. Neither HSV1 or HSV2 is harmful to teenagers nor adults, but it can be deadly to newborns. Transmission is not by blood nor saliva but by either direct contact with a blister, the fluid within the blister or viral shedding, with viral shedding being the most common means.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Yeah sucking on a cut makes sense.

Cutting yourself (or someone else) on purpose does not make sense.


EDIT: and Kellogg actually sounded pretty cool, his ideas on vegetarianism and holistic methods, I can jive with.
In regards to circumcision, doing it to prevent masturbation is a little off.

Kellogg was a skilled surgeon, who often donated his services to indigent patients at his clinic.[9] Although generally against unnecessary surgery to treat diseases,[10][11][dead link] he did advocate circumcision, allegedly to prevent masturbation.

edit on 5-3-2012 by el1jah because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Are these the same parents from back in 2005? Probably.

Kidding of course but wouldn't be surprising to see these parents try it again.
edit on 5-3-2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by el1jah
 


And that is religion: it is okay to mutilate (and therefore reduce pleasure from sex for both men and women) but it is not okay to eat pork or shellfish despite modern sanitation. Go figure.

But look at it this way, back then there was no Super Bowl or internet to keep you entertained and distracted. Sex was pretty much the only entertainment, so having less mouths to feed and having time to develop other cultural arts (such as writing, music, art, crafts and sports) built better sense of community. And communities need law and order, hence development of religion in order to teach such structural law constructs for community identity.

Giving up a bit of flesh and oysters is a lot easier than 40 some years of back breaking labor moving stone blocks into the shape of a pyramid.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by broahes
 


I agree entirely. I think these religious traditions (whether they be circumcision, or child baptism) are to psychologically bind the individual to the group. If that individual grows up and decides to turn away, it will take a lot more effort than if they were able to freely choose in the first place.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by SpaceJ
Okay, consulted someone. It's very much real. It's still in practice as a part of their religious doctrine.

Talmud Circumcision


Mezizah: By this is meant the sucking of the blood from the wound. The mohel takes some wine in his mouth and applies his lips to the part involved in the operation, and exerts suction, after which he expels the mixture of wine and blood into a receptacle (see Fig. 4, below) provided for the purpose. This procedure is repeated several times, and completes the operation, except as to the control of the bleeding and the dressing of the wound.


what the actual Ffff


That being from Babylonian Talmud explains it all. Nothing about Talmud is good and goes against Torah practices

I know someone who has studied these things and has come to the conclusion the common practice of circumcision is not the Torah Mandated way of doing it and that they cut off more than they are suppose to now.

The fact that there is blood tells me they aren't doing it right to begin with because if they did it on the 8th day like mandated in Torah there should be no blood unless it is because they cut more foreskin than mandated by Torah or did it after 8 days.

I had a friend who was uncircumcised and he started having problems once becoming sexually active with discomfort to the point that pulling the skin back to clean properly started to hurt so he decided to get circumcised. I have my own thoughts on circumcision but the way it's done today don't seem right especially that Talmud practice just sounds disgusting.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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That barbaric practice needs to be worldwide banned and those who do that stuff
to be imprisoned for life!



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


We all know Aliens built those pyramids
.

Joking aside, I can see how you are trying to put the traditions into a factual context, and I agree, traditions usually have a functional basis. I am concerned with what is happening in the psyche to make humans so blind to the truth. I dont really have a good answer but this is something that is happening at all levels of society, whether it is trends in fashion, technology, music.... why dont humans think for themselves? and is the idea of community that keeps us hypnotized?

You mentioned 'giving up pork and shell fish is a lot easier than building pyramids' : I think you hit on something important, we would rather not be responsible for our lives, to be responsible for our lives opens us to the insecurity of the unknown, we would rather be slaves than look into the unknown. So once a slave to an egyptian, now a slave to tradition, never free. Society I think follows this formula.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by GakunGak
That barbaric practice needs to be worldwide banned and those who do that stuff
to be imprisoned for life!


I know this is a bit off topic, but I read this, then seen under your name, "banned".. I was about to start a conspiracy thread..
nice one.



posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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www2.jehovahs-witness.net...

i'd rather be goyim!




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