the author of Babylon Mystery changed his mind....

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe

 

Colby,
I'm not Christian, so I'm not asking this for myself,well, my curiosity, but, here goes; What would a God loving, good Protestant Christian need to do, or change, in order to be a Roman Catholic. Considering they HAVE been baptized, taken communion and confessed their sins to Jesus, what else would they need to do?

Apparently the gospel isn't "Jesus died for your sins, trust in Him" anymore huh?

[whispers] Jesus came and taught the way.....listen, he's speaking to your heart....

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe

 

Ugh, sounds like signing up for the military or some kind of volunteer prison!

But, thank you, Colbe for your comprehensive answer. I had no idea it was that complicated and contrived. See, I grew up in a Pentecostal household. Salvation was easy, maintaining was a whole nother story.....

The thing is, people desire to be there but you are welcome windword.

I won't deny Protestantism is easy. Salvation is not. Our Lord's death
on the cross wasn't easy. There is more required than believing Jesus
is your Savior. Satan believes the same.

It can't be too much longer with the state of the world. Wait until
the "illumination." Also known as the Great Warning. I don't know Our
Lord's plan for bringing in the Protestant sheep. It might be a lot
simpler.


blessings,

colbe

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe

 

Colby,
I'm not Christian, so I'm not asking this for myself,well, my curiosity, but, here goes; What would a God loving, good Protestant Christian need to do, or change, in order to be a Roman Catholic. Considering they HAVE been baptized, taken communion and confessed their sins to Jesus, what else would they need to do?

Apparently the gospel isn't "Jesus died for your sins, trust in Him" anymore huh?

[whispers] Jesus came and taught the way.....listen, he's speaking to your heart....

No, He didn't come to "teach" the Way, He said He IS "The Way".

He didn't say: "Look, here is how to do it all yourself, copy me exactly." Nope, He came and said:

"Believe in me, it's finished! and "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life, No man comes to the Father , unless through me."

The gospel is NOT a good example to follow, no, the gospel is a good news to place one's trust in.

Go to 1 Corinthians chapter 15 where Paul declares the apostles decision to the first creed of Christianity. He makes no mention that Jesus is a good teacher, even though He was, he makes no mention of His miracles, even though He did them, and he makes no mention of Jesus acts or words at all. here is the naked gospel:

Jesus came according to the scriptures, He died and was buried, and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures.

That's the gospel... Jesus came in the flesh and blood, and He died, and resurrected after 3 days in the tomb, all according to the OT scriptures.

reply to post by colbe

There is more required than believing Jesus is your Savior.

You're right, it's trust in the fact that He, as a Savior, died for our sins. And Paul is pretty clear all we need to do is have faith and trust in Him. Jesus said that's all that's required in John 6. Peter affirms that justification is by grace through faith alone. Habbakuk 2:4 declares that "The just shall live by faith." Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews are a NT trilogy on Habbakuk 2:4. The author of the three uses it as his foundational verse in those letters.

John the Baptist said Jesus was the "Lamb of God" that "takes away the sins of the world."

Satan believes the same.

Satan doesn't "believe" it's the same, he knows it's true, he was there. People who were there, like satan, the apostles, et cetra are not like you and I who have to believe the story or not, they were there when it happened, no "believing" required.

And the reason satan can never be redeemed is because Jesus never incarnated as a cherub to die for him. Demons cannot be redeemed even though they know the facts. Jesus never incarnated as a Nephillim or Rephaim and died for those half-breeds from Genesis 6 either. And fallen angels can never be redeemed, Christ never incarnated as an angel and died for them. He did however, incarnate as a human and died for mankind. That's why we love Him and worship Him. Because while we were yet sinners He died for us.

While we were His bitter sworn enemies, He died,.. for us all. Even the Romans who nailed Him to that cross, even the high priest. He died for everyone. So it doesn't matter what satan "knows", if matters only what Jesus DID! Quit focusing on the devil, focus on Jesus, it's all about Him anyways.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He didn't say: "Look, here is how to do it all yourself, copy me exactly."

Yes, he did!
He said if you only listen to what I'm saying, you can do these things, too. You are all gods.

Psalm 82:6
I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

John 14:12
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

(meaning they would go far and wide, throughout the known world, rather than the smaller area in which he preached....
and perform these things themselves if they copied what he did.....if they believed him and studied and worked at it like he did, for all those YEARS HE WAS MISSING from the Bible...
which was, lest we forget, study with the mystics and learn healing and transfiguration and all that coolio stuff...
from the masters in the East, and the Essenes also)

reply to post by wildtimes

Yes, he did!

Not for salvation He didn't, see John 6.

meaning they would go far and wide, throughout the known world, rather than the smaller area in which he preached....
and perform these things themselves if they copied what he did.....if they believed him and studied and worked at it like he did, for all those YEARS HE WAS MISSING from the Bible...
which was, lest we forget, study with the mystics and learn healing and transfiguration and all that coolio stuff...
from the masters in the East, and the Essenes also)

Okay, no legitimate historian believes any of that jazz. Even atheist historians will tell you it's an "indisputable fact" Jesus died of crucifixion. (Their words, not mine) Only fringe loonies with an agenda claim otherwise. Atheists are what is called "hostile source attestation".

Anyways, no. He fed 5,000 people, 5 million Christians can feed millions of people. That's what He meant. We'd do greater things in quantity, not quality. None of us are walking on water.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That's what He meant. We'd do greater things in quantity, not quality. None of us are walking on water.

Exactly....greater things as in spreading it to more and more people.
Now you are simply arguing out of spite.

There are very, very credible historians who believe he did survive. Why are you so stubborn about this?

Wouldn't you be happy to hear he survived, with the help of his friends who were healers and who made a secret bargain with Pilate to get him down and away?

It makes SO MUCH more sense, for one thing....it even brings the shroud of Turin into the picture -- if he was dead, he wouldn't have bled all over it at the exact same positions that he endured the shallow jab of the spear in his lower right rib cage (NOT THROUGH HIS HEART).
He was only hanging there for 3 hours. It generally took 2-3 DAYS for the victim to die...the whole point was humiliation, agony, and a slow death. There is SO MUCH evidence that he survived, I don't see how you or anyone else can so staunchly refuse to listen to it.

It's starting to feel like a little kid insisting there is too such a thing as Santa and the Easter Bunny!!

What gives, friend? What would it take for you to accept it? Don't you come to ATS to learn? Don't you want to deny ignorance?

If it is put to you clearly and reasonably that Jesus Christ did perform those miracles, was a direct messenger from God, AND survived the crucifixion, and that new information made all the stories fit into place, would you STILL say "no"?

Or, whatever. The earth is flat and the sun rotates around it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Okay, no legitimate historian believes any of that jazz. Even atheist historians will tell you it's an "indisputable fact" Jesus died of crucifixion. (Their words, not mine) Only fringe loonies with an agenda claim otherwise.

Fringe loonies?

Fida Hassnain (b. 1924, Srinagar, Kashmir) is a prominent Kashmiri writer and advanced Sufi Mystic. He studied law and received his Ll.D. in 1946.

He started his career as Professor of History & Civics in the year 1947. In 1953 he joined Jammu and Kashmir State Government service. Before retiring in 1980, he held several important posts, such as that of Director of General Records & Archives; Director of Archives, Archaeology, Research & Museums; and State Editor of Gazetteers of India. He became a Lecturer at S.P. College in Srinagar.

Later, he rose to the position of Professor of History and Research. He became the Director of the State Archives, Archaeology Research and Museums in 1954 and continued as such until his retirement in 1983.[1] His study tours resulted in the salvaging of several hundred manuscripts in Arabic, Sanskrit and Persian, which were housed in the Archives and Oriental Research Libraries. As an archaeologist, he has conducted several excavations. In 1969 he was invited to Japan to speak on Buddhism. Since then he has visited Japan six times for lecture tours. His scholastic achievements have won for him the title of Doctor of Indology.
Professor Fida Hassnain is the recipient of several degrees and awards from various institutions in India and abroad.

2009: Lifetime Achievement Award from Jammu and Kashmir Government.
2007: Outstanding contribution in the field of history. Gulshan Book Award 2007.
2006: Robe of Honour from J&K Academy of Art, Culture and Languages.
2003: Secular India Harmony Award. Bestowed by Mrs. Shila Dik#, Chief Minister, Delhi.
*2002: Included in the Eminent Personalities of India I.B.R.F., India.
2000: Ph.D(AM) Indian Institute of Alternative Medicines, The Open University of Alternative Medicines, Kolkatta, India.
1999: Gem of Alternative Medicines, I.B.A.M, Kolkotta, India
1998: Chairman, 3rd Session, International Seminar on Central Asia, Delhi, India.
1997: Bhaskar Award, Bharat Nirman, New Delhi, India.
1997: R.M.P. Indian Board of Alternative Medicines, Kolkotta, India.
1996: Doctor of Self Realization, New Delhi, India.
1995: Maha-Vishwa Vikas Ratna, Occult Foundation, Bharat Nirman, New Delhi, India.
1993: Bharat Nirman Pracharya Award 1993, New Delhi, India.
1993: Vishwadhyamik Jagat Guru, New Delhi, India.
1990: D.Litt (Hon. Causa) Vishwa Unnyayan Samsad, New Delhi, India.
1989: Special Citation, International Yoga Convention, Pondicherry, India.
1988: Doctor of Sufism, (Hon. Causa) New Delhi, India.
1987: Rashtra Sanskrit Samat, Vishwa Unayayan Samsad, New Delhi, India.
1983: D.Metaphysics, School of Pararational Studies, Zurich, Switzerland.
1979: Master of Divinity, Ordem Do Limao, Rio De Janeiro, Mexico.
1974: Doctor of Indology, Sharda Peetha, Srinagar, Kashmir, India.
1953: Dip. Arch. National Archives of India, New Delhi, India.
1947: L.L.B. Muslim University, Aligarh, India.
1946: M.A. Muslim University, Aligarh, India.
1944: B.A. Punjab University, Lahore, Pakistan.
1942: Medal for Social Service.

Fringe loonies? Not a legitimate historian?
Good heavens you are that prejudiced and closed-minded, NuT?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Apparently the gospel isn't "Jesus died for your sins, trust in Him" anymore huh?

It never was that.

The Gospel was that the Kingdom of God has come.
Jesus presented himself as the bodily fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy of God coming to restore Israel.
Now we understand it that it included a widening of the definition of Israel to include all those who believed in Jesus.

What you are doing is presenting the anti-christian gospel of Satan, to take away from Jesus his godhood and the very purpose of his coming to earth and substituting in a blood ritual to an unknown, unnamed entity who stands above God and Jesus and demands satisfaction.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It never was that.

You don't know the gospel. It's in plain English, in 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:47

reply to post by wildtimes


Tacitus (115 A.D.):

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

"The extreme penalty" ~ Roman lingo for "capital punishment/scourging/crucifixion"
"A most mischievous superstition" ~ That He rose from the dead.

Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source,

Tacitus on Christ.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"The extreme penalty" ~ Roman lingo for "capital punishment/scourging/crucifixion"
"A most mischievous superstition" ~ That He rose from the dead.

The most mischievous part is that he "rose from the dead," not that he didn't really die on that cross. The evidence that he DIDN'T is overwhelming. Dude! People saw him and talked to him and Thomas felt the wounds on his hands. His body wasn't in the grave. He didn't die!

reply to post by wildtimes


"Was Jesus' Death a Sham.."

Well, I thought, here we go. I braced myself for the grim images I knew were about to flood my mind. I had seen plenty of dead bodies as a journalist—casualties of car accidents, fires, and crime syndicate retribution—but there was something especially unnerving in hearing about someone being intentionally brutalized by executioners determined to extract maximum suffering.

“Tell me,” I said, “what was the flogging like?”

“The back would be so shredded that part of the spine was sometimes exposed by the deep, deep cuts. The whipping would have gone all the way from the shoulders down to the back, the buttocks, and the back of the legs. It was just terrible.”

Metherell (Dr. Metherell) paused. “Go on,” I said.

“One physician who has studied Roman beatings said, ‘As the flogging continued, the lacerations would tear into the underlying skeletal muscles and produce quivering ribbons of bleeding flesh.’ A third-century historian by the name of Eusebius described a flogging by saying, ‘The sufferer’s veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure.’

“We know that many people would die from this kind of beating even before they could be crucified. At the least, the victim would experience tremendous pain and go into hypovolemic shock.”

and..

“If they wanted to speed up death—and with the Sabbath and Passover coming, the Jewish leaders certainly wanted to get this over before sundown—the Romans would use the steel shaft of a short Roman spear to shatter the victim’s lower leg bones. This would prevent him from pushing up with his legs so he could breathe, and death by asphyxiation would result in a matter of minutes.

"Death in a matter of minutes. Christ was no longer pushing up on the nails, they knew He was dead. After 10-20 minutes of not pushing up on the nails the Romans soldiers knew He was dead. He hung on the cross a while, during the earthquake and the sky turning black like night.


Link.

Unfortunatly guys, i believe NotYourTypical is correct...

I've never found solid evidence that Jesus survived his execution...

And though i personally believe his death was not the reason for his comming... His life was his purpose, but he was meant to die, which can clearly be shown in his begging God to "take this cup from me" just before the event... It was Gods will...

But the evidence points towards his death.... not his survival

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

"The extreme penalty" ~ Roman lingo for "capital punishment/scourging/crucifixion"
"A most mischievous superstition" ~ That He rose from the dead.

The most mischievous part is that he "rose from the dead," not that he didn't really die on that cross. The evidence that he DIDN'T is overwhelming. Dude! People saw him and talked to him and Thomas felt the wounds on his hands. His body wasn't in the grave. He didn't die!

He rose from the dead. He could not fake His death by refusing to breathe oxygen. He said it was "for this hour" that He came, to die and shed His "blood for the remission of sins". (Matthew 26:28)

He was dead, He could not have faked His death, He stopped pushing up on His nails in His feet to get another breath of air. Read the description of a Roman scourging and the death by crucifixion from the doctor in the link above. If you want the real details listed to the link called "*WARNING*" in my sig.

Jesus certainly was dead,certain as any other fact of antiquity.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yeah, yeah, I saw Mel Gibson's movie, "The Passion of the Christ" too.

We just don't know how much force was used against Jesus. We don't know if the Roman soldiers showed him some mercy, or not.

What we do know, is that he was up and walking around. A living, breathing man talking to his friends He was not in the grave. Occam's razor.

Originally posted by Akragon
Unfortunatly guys, i believe NotYourTypical is correct...

I've never found solid evidence that Jesus survived his execution...

And though i personally believe his death was not the reason for his comming... His life was his purpose, but he was meant to die, which can clearly be shown in his begging God to "take this cup from me" just before the event... It was Gods will...

But the evidence points towards his death.... not his survival

Thank you. It's silliness.

reply to post by windword

We just don't know how much force was used against Jesus. We don't know if the Roman soldiers showed him some mercy, or not.

What? The 39 lash rule wasn't a Roman consideration. There is no "cat an nine tails light" beating. Your flesh is completely laid open. Sometimes a rib would catch and be ripped out the side of a person being scourged.

He died so fast because He was scourged first before being crucified. The thieves beside Him were not. That's not normal practice. Pilate thought the crowd would have sympathy on Christ after seeing Him scourged and beaten. They didn't and He was crucified IN ADDITION TO IT.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I can't find it. Can you please show where the Bible says 39 lashes with a cat of nine tails?