the author of Babylon Mystery changed his mind....

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

. . . true repentance means to stop sinning.

"Sinning" is not a word in the Bible.
Sin, as in a noun, is what will prevent one from going to heaven (or, wherever).
For example, how many times a day do you hate someone?
Are you "sinning less" if you only hate a couple people today, where before you would hate a bunch of people every day?
You shouldn't hate anyone. If anyone needs to do that, it would be God, and is not our job to do things like that.
If you hate people, you have sin in you and you don't go to heaven (or, wherever).
What you need is a new spirit. Your old spirit was prone to hate people, so you need a spirit that does not hate people. It is not slowly dwindling down the number of people you hate every day. That is just fooling yourself.

Athough it may be impossible to stop sinning without the babtism of the Holy Spirit, it is not impossible to make the commitment with your heart and believe that through faith God will help you to eliminate sin from your life.
God knows the heart of a man and knows if you have truly made this commitment and have believed in the message.

In the bible everytime people were baptised it says they believed the message and were baptised by the Holy Spirit. If you don't believe that God loves you, forgave you, dwells in you, and wants to teach you to be holly than you have not believed the message. Since you have not believed you don't receive baptism. You receive what you believe you have received.

If I believe that I have received the Holy Spirit as my teacher but cannot overcome sin, than even though I have received the Holy Spirit I am not yet ready to be baptised and freed from sin. If I continue in my faith allowing myself to be guided by the Spirit, I should learn that it is indeed possible to become free from sin.

Anyone who teaches that Christians cannot become free from sin remain a slave to sin and have not believed that God will teach them how to be like Christ, free from sin.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Amen sacg, well said. We who are in Christ are new creatures. We have new natures. And I know you know this next part is true. He give us a new heart and a new mind, the things we once didn't care were sins we're now keenly aware of and no longer desire to do. I was a drug-using, fornicating, lying, stealing, hateful person before He saved me. Now I have no desire to do those things, they don't even sound fun anymore. He's given me a completely new mind, new heart. The things of old are dead and passed away glory to God.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I was a drug-using, fornicating, lying, stealing, hateful person before He saved me. Now I have no desire to do those things, they don't even sound fun anymore. He's given me a completely new mind, new heart. The things of old are dead and passed away glory to God.

What about drug-using, fornicating, lying, stealing, hateful people who emerge with new minds and hearts after becoming buddhists or hindus or muslims?
Do you suppose God changed them for the better?
Or do only christian stories of experiencing change for the better count?

reply to post by sacgamer25


sac, hi,

I have been away. Talking about the presence of God the Holy Spirit.
Everyone realizes I hope, God can't dwell in you, He can't be present in your soul if you have even one mortal sin on your soul.

This what Catholics refer to as being in the "state of grace."

Jesus established Confession -John 20:23-, it's major for everyone.

Confession and prayer for the life of your soul

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Amen sacg, well said. We who are in Christ are new creatures. We have new natures. And I know you know this next part is true. He give us a new heart and a new mind, the things we once didn't care were sins we're now keenly aware of and no longer desire to do. I was a drug-using, fornicating, lying, stealing, hateful person before He saved me. Now I have no desire to do those things, they don't even sound fun anymore. He's given me a completely new mind, new heart. The things of old are dead and passed away glory to God.

NTT,

Conversions happens but we still sin.

You agree don't you, our justification, we must persevere to the end
as Scripture states. It is a battle because of our fallen nature. I just
shared with sac, confession and prayer, it's the way to make it through.

Catholics have a benefit and why soon, after the Great Warning, all
Christians will be Roman Catholic. Catholics have the great "grace" of
the Sacraments. The pinnacle of course is the Holy Eucharist.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

If you've ever done Greek studies you'd know what I'm saying is true.

Repeating a factoid about something does not in itself prove anything, or even make an argument.
To make an argument, you need to demonstrate how this factoid is relevant to the case earlier presented by me, something you failed to do.

reply to post by sacgamer25

God knows the heart of a man and knows if you have truly made this commitment and have believed in the message.

What message?
The statement I was objecting to earlier was that you did not think reading the Bible was necessary.
Without the Bible, there is no message to believe in.

reply to post by sacgamer25

If I continue in my faith allowing myself to be guided by the Spirit, I should learn that it is indeed possible to become free from sin.

I don't know what you are teaching here but it sounds like self salvation.
What you are doing is leaving Jesus out of the equation, and creating a new universalist religion where your living "without sin" is the goal, something achievable through the proper desire.
When Paul talks about being free from sin, he is talking about being free from the law of sin and death. This is done by being incorporated into Christ. The Spirit is what helps you to live a life worthy of that name, but your actions that come from that spirit is not what in itself saves you. Christ saves you as he himself was saved from death by God, as being in Christ we are saved too. We live a life that demonstrates that we are in Christ. If we are not living correctly, then we do not have a proper relationship with Jesus and we need to get back into the right relationship. Our deeds are not what saves us, but is an indication of having that relationship which our salvation is dependent on. No amount of living "sin free" is going to get us into heaven, only Jesus can, and he knows his own. People who try to get into the flock by any way but the gate are thieves. Jesus is the gate. You can teach otherwise but it is not Christianity and has nothing to do with Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

If I continue in my faith allowing myself to be guided by the Spirit, I should learn that it is indeed possible to become free from sin.

I don't know what you are teaching here but it sounds like self salvation.
What you are doing is leaving Jesus out of the equation, and creating a new universalist religion where your living "without sin" is the goal, something achievable through the proper desire.
When Paul talks about being free from sin, he is talking about being free from the law of sin and death. This is done by being incorporated into Christ. The Spirit is what helps you to live a life worthy of that name, but your actions that come from that spirit is not what in itself saves you. Christ saves you as he himself was saved from death by God, as being in Christ we are saved too. We live a life that demonstrates that we are in Christ. If we are not living correctly, then we do not have a proper relationship with Jesus and we need to get back into the right relationship. Our deeds are not what saves us, but is an indication of having that relationship which our salvation is dependent on. No amount of living "sin free" is going to get us into heaven, only Jesus can, and he knows his own. People who try to get into the flock by any way but the gate are thieves. Jesus is the gate. You can teach otherwise but it is not Christianity and has nothing to do with Jesus.

edit on 23-3-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

How have I left Jesus out of the equation? Who is the Holy Spirit? Who came as man, on the cross, and was resurrected to teach us to live and pray in the Spirit? What I say is what makes Jesus the only equation. We can search for answers in the Gospel are whole life and be left empty, because we end up making the Gospel a law in it. This was precisely what Jesus came to change. No longer are we bound by the law but instead we are filled with and taught by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ. If I say that I am filled with the Spirit of Christ, taught by the Spirit of Christ and lead my life according to his teachings, how have I left him out of the equation? It is by his grace and his resurrection that I have become worthy of the gift of his spirit, whom he sent to me. By my faith I have received wisdom and guidance from his spirit.

Anyone who truly believes the Holy Spirit lives in them and teaches them is indeed filled and taught by the spirit. God's wisdom is only bound by our faith. If you put the Holy Spirit in a box, because you have not believed that all things are possible for God, than all things are not possible for you. Not because God is limited but because your faith is limited.

The Gospel is a means for the spirit to teach us how to distinguish from those who are filled with the spirit and those who are false teachers.


Sayings like how can you love God that you can't see if you can't love your neighbor. If someone doesn't love their neighbor than you know the spirit is not in them.

When Jesus compares hate to murder he is showing that anyone who hates is not filled with and living by the spirit.

When Jesus says we should not judge others, he is teaching us that those who are filled with the spirit do not judge others.

When Jesus says turn the other cheek, he is teaching us that those who are filled with the spirit turn the other cheek.

reply to post by sacgamer25

. . . how to distinguish from those who are filled with the spirit and those who are false teachers.

By your logic, everyone would be a false teacher (including the Bible, apparently) since the only real teacher is a spirit.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

. . . how to distinguish from those who are filled with the spirit and those who are false teachers.

By your logic, everyone would be a false teacher (including the Bible, apparently) since the only real teacher is a spirit.

That is almost what I am saying. But the bible answers the question for us, when it comes to understanding the bible.

2 Peter 1:19-21 19 Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

1 John 2:26-27 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you."

You see the bible defines itself. Scripture tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that is the author of the bible. Scripture was written by profits who were speaking the very words given to them by God. It is by this understanding and the understanding that Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to teach us that we can realize that the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of scripture. If you accept that the Holy Spirit is your teacher than you can learn to listen to the Holy Spirit interpret the bible for you. You can continue to put your faith in others or you can allow Christ to teach you all things just like he promised.

I have put my faith in Jesus. I believe in him and I believe that he is in me. The problem with private interpretaion is it has lead to 40,000 differerent denominations each with a unique set of guidelines that one must follow. In essasce they all are teaching us to live by the law thus nullifying grace and Christ's death and resurection. If we could have been made holly observing the law there would have been no need for a new covenant.

You can read the bible 1000 times and not be changed. You can listen to the spirit for one moment and be changed forever.

Do you see that what I am saying places Christ as the centerpiece and head of the church? Christ is all and is in all. He is before all things, through him everything holds together. What am I teaching, listen to Christ. Anyone who is telling you that they are being guided by the Holy Spirit and teaches to follow their interpretaion is a false teacher. Anyone who says I have been guided by the Holy Spirit and I would like you to allow the Holy Spirit to enter your life and be your teacher is teaching the truth. Because the false teacher puts a man as the head of the church, but the one who is filled with the spirit makes Christ the center of the church.

reply to post by sacgamer25

The problem with private interpretaion is it has lead to 40,000 differerent denominations each with a unique set of guidelines that one must follow.

"Unity doesn't have to mean uniformity."

Or in other words, people can still be considered legitimate Christianity is they differ on secondary and tertiary doctrines, not primary ones. (Christology, Soeteriology, and Theology)

reply to post by sacgamer25

But the bible answers the question for us, when it comes to understanding the bible.

The New Testament promotes the idea that the spirit helps the believer to understand what they have been taught.
In today's context, this would be the equivalent to reading the New Testament itself.

The problem with private interpretaion is it has lead to 40,000 differerent denominations . . .

This is only a problem for someone wanting to have a position like the Pope, who is the unquestionable authority over the entire church, as in a catholic church, meaning that it includes every person on Earth who believes in Jesus.
The idea that private interpretation is a bad thing comes from one place in the New Testament, 2 Peter, which is itself a forgery and does not properly belong in the NT canon.

If we could have been made holly observing the law there would have been no need for a new covenant.

I don't remember there being a law in the NT for Christians other than to love one another. The Goal of God in sending His son was to save the world. To me (my private interpretation), this means having the world populated by people who live by Christian principles, where people can get along with each other and help others who need help, and put resources to good work, instead of for war. Salvation on a limited individual level is secondary and more a concern of the individual. If it takes a whole lot of individuals desiring salvation for themselves in order to bring about the salvation of the world, then that may be how it works out, but it means each of those persons reforming into persons who behave in a loving manner. If you want to call that "according to the law" and then say that is a bad thing, then I think you have lost sight of the big picture and have not gotten beyond concern for your own well being.

reply to post by jmdewey60


God the Holy Spirit guides the Church to interpret Scripture, the same as
when she assembled (canonized) Scripture. Put two and two together.

Private interpretation of Scripture can lead to error and division. Oh yeah,
it already has....38,000 + Protestant sects, one new sect every week
since 1517.

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

God the Holy Spirit guides the Church to interpret Scripture, the same as
when she assembled (canonized) Scripture. Put two and two together.

Private interpretation of Scripture can lead to error and division. Oh yeah,
it already has....38,000 + Protestant sects, one new sect every week
since 1517.

You seem to have a profound ignorance of your protestant, schismatic, Roman sect's history.
The doctrines in holds are the result of warfare and the law of the jungle, beasts grasping for power.
God has preserved the real church, "in my Father's house there are many mansions".
The more the better!

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

God the Holy Spirit guides the Church to interpret Scripture, the same as
when she assembled (canonized) Scripture. Put two and two together.

Private interpretation of Scripture can lead to error and division. Oh yeah,
it already has....38,000 + Protestant sects, one new sect every week
since 1517.

You seem to have a profound ignorance of your protestant, schismatic, Roman sect's history.
The doctrines in holds are the result of warfare and the law of the jungle, beasts grasping for power.
God has preserved the real church, "in my Father's house there are many mansions".
The more the better!

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. How are you going to get
around that verse? Jesus established one Church jm. You reject it,
reject history, reject the miraculous which includes the Real Presence.

You need the Eucharist, Jesus said it 2000 years ago and constantly
since through His prophets. You can become Roman Catholic, it would
make Our Lord very happy. Besides, the Remnant is Roman Catholic.

Desire more now, here, in this present life.

Excerpt from a message to Father Melvin Doucette

April 5, 2012 (Holy Thursday)

The Last Supper ~ refer to 1Cor 11:23-26

...Come and contemplate the Last Supper, My dear brother Melvin and all My dear brothers and sisters who believe in Me and receive the Holy Eucharist at least every Sunday. I instituted the Eucharist just before My Passion. I knew I had to leave you shortly so by the institution of the Eucharist, I was able to stay among you in a special way. Believe, My dear friends, that I am truly present in the hosts and in the chalice. I am present there alive as I live now at the right hand of My Heavenly Father. Although you cannot see Me with your eyes, you are to believe in My real presence. I wanted to stay with you in a special way and so I am in the Holy Eucharist and I come into your heart every time you come to receive Me. I am closer to you now than any other human being, because I live in your very being. I am part of you. Come to receive Me with a pure heart, which means that you have repented of all your sins. I am very pleased too with the adoration going on in many parishes today. Those who come to adore Me in the Holy Eucharist are blessed indeed. I love you all."

Yahoo Groups - Seers 2

Message # 35099

reply to post by colbe

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. How are you going to get
around that verse? Jesus established one Church jm. You reject it,
reject history, reject the miraculous which includes the Real Presence.

Paul says the body of Christ is made up of many members, where everyone has a different gift.

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

God the Holy Spirit guides the Church to interpret Scripture, the same as
when she assembled (canonized) Scripture. Put two and two together.

Private interpretation of Scripture can lead to error and division. Oh yeah,
it already has....38,000 + Protestant sects, one new sect every week
since 1517.

If you think just because to have a thimble-full of theology from an inexhaustible book you have lost your mind.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

 

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. How are you going to get
around that verse? Jesus established one Church jm. You reject it,
reject history, reject the miraculous which includes the Real Presence.

Paul says the body of Christ is made up of many members, where everyone has a different gift.

Amen! And one part of that body cannot say to the other, "I have no need of thee."

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

God the Holy Spirit guides the Church to interpret Scripture, the same as
when she assembled (canonized) Scripture. Put two and two together.

Private interpretation of Scripture can lead to error and division. Oh yeah,
it already has....38,000 + Protestant sects, one new sect every week
since 1517.

If you think just because to have a thimble-full of theology from an inexhaustible book you have lost your mind.

Non-Catholic Christians made the Bible, a Catholic "book" their authority after they rejected the authority of the Church who gave them their Bible and professing something else new, all of God's revelation is written in Scripture.

Crazy I know.