It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

the author of Babylon Mystery changed his mind....

page: 10
4
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:16 PM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 



When he seemed dead on the cross.


Did you read the links? I'm not trying to be smart, but that's impossible. In order to breathe the man had to lift Himself off the nails in His feet, pushing Himself up. He could not breathe in the slumped position. He died from asphyxiation. The soldiers could not be faked out, and duh, He couldn't live without oxygen.



edit on 10-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:20 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Actually its not a fast death, its very slow... and he only hung for a little while..

These people still crucify themselves by choice as an homage to Christ






posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:21 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Please answer the questions.
I am at a point I want to know these things about you, friend.

There is so much new information, new archaeological and linguistic work, new research into outside sources.....

I'm reading a book right now called The Evolution of God, by Robert Wright, copyright 2009. It starts with cavemen and moves through hunter-gatherers, chiefdoms, to cities in Egypt and talks about the Canaanites and the new discoveries that have indicated that the OT is....

not only NOT in sequential order, but how the God of the OT evolved from a mass-murdering, jealous bastard to what eventually he became.....

Anyway, to anyone having interest and following this thread (and the forum), I highly recommend it. Very entertaining (the author has a great wit), as well as informative.

The Sunday school stuff just doesn't add up, folks. It doesn't.


Did you read the links?

Did you?
Why, in your opinion, are your links awesome and mine are crap?


edit on 10-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:31 PM
link   
Fringe loonies?
Here I present the other author of The Fifth Gospelwww.bluedolphinpublishing.com...

Rabbi Dahan Levi was born on December 8, 1920 in Morocco. He was the last of six sons. His education started with the study of the Bible. He was so diligent that at the age of eight, he questioned the views given in various commentaries. He began his studies of the Talmud at the age of eleven and obtained admission to the Yeshiva when he was barely fifteen years old.

At the Talmudic University, Rabbi Levi’s inquisitive mind led him to ask questions of his teachers, which sometimes perplexed them. His teachers believed in traditional methods of teaching and endeavoured to persuade him to follow them in theory and dogma. While the teachers laid stress on commentaries, Dahan Levi wished to go to the essence of the scriptures.

A time came when Dahan Levi’s academic discussions earned for him the dislike of his teachers. Instead of answering his questions, they would simply ask him to leave the classroom. However, he continued his theological studies with critical analysis, with the result that he obtained in 1940 the degree of Talmudic Teacher and Rabbin. After long study, he had come to the conclusion that it was easy to understand the scriptures without the help of controversial commentaries.

Rev. Levi now made plans for further study and research into the myths of the Old Testament world but he was called upon to perform compulsory military service. He joined the army and completed his term in Tunis and Libya as a member of the French Legion. During all these years, his heart longed to visit the Holy Land. He was nominated as “almoner to the battalion” in the British Legion, and so he got an opportunity to proceed to Egypt.

Rev. Levi wandered all over the land of the Pharaohs and then travelled in Palestine, Syria and Iraq for three months. He left army service in 1942 and became a Titular of Talmud and ritual sacrificer in the city of Oran in Algeria.

Rev. Levi married in 1948 when he was twenty-eight years old. Another important event in his life was to move to Paris—and his stay there. He took up various jobs and later got an administrative job of the third subdivision in state service. In 1950, he became the Founder President of the “Alliance d’ Abraham,” an organization which aims at the survival of historical links between the three monotheist faiths, Judaism, Buddhism and Islam. It also aims at educating Muslims in the technique of the rite of circumcision..

Rev. Dahan Levi is the Vice-President of the Israeli community from the third administrative subdivision of Paris. In 1972, he was honored with the Decoration of the City of Paris. For his excellent work, he was honored in 1977 with the “Order National du Merite.”

He is a searcher for the truth in history and culture. With the Bible in hand, he visited Occidental Arabia and toured India in 1986. During this period, he visited Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Agra, Jaipur and Srinagar in Kashmir. It was destiny that he met Professor Fida Hassnain, and they became good friends.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:32 PM
link   
reply to post by colbe
 

The Apostolic Fathers were Roman Catholic. Ignatius knew John, Ignatius
believes in the Holy Eucharist. Ignatius, third Bishop of Antioch first
used the term "Catholic."
It would be helpful if you gave quotations and maybe someone might believe some of what you are saying. Polycarp knew (supposedly) John, and Ignatius made some remark that sounds like that, meaning acknowledging this relationship.
But there never was (early on) a concept like one Apostle would pass down his apostleship to a successor and there was an unbroken chain all the way from the original disciples of Jesus, to the bishops today. For one thing, there was no bishops until the Apostles were already dead. The current bishops in power when this idea for a claim to legitimacy came about, just made up a history to show how they had it handed down through earlier bishops, from Apostles.
edit on 10-3-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 



Actually its not a fast death, its very slow...


It's very fast if one isn't breathing. Minutes. If a person isn't pushing up off the nails, gasping for one more breath of air they will die by asphyxiation. You can't "fake" not breathing air. We die without air.


and he only hung for a little while..


He was scourged first remember? Oftentimes people die just from the scourging.

Isn't anyone reading the links?



These people still crucify themselves by choice as an homage to Christ


They don't get scourged by Romans with a cat and nine tails first dude. And they don't hang for days on the cross either. You're not considering at all the scourging first. That's not normal for a crucifixion.




edit on 10-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:48 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Isn't anyone reading the links?

Heard it, been there, done that.

Are you?
Again, why are all your links accurate and credible, and others are crap?

I will, if you will.
Please, NuT.
Answer the questions!



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:51 PM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 



why are all your links accurate and credible


Doctors detailing the crucifixion from the details in the gospels. AMA, peer-reviewed medical journal.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:55 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Okay, and...
the rest of the questions?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:55 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I understand what you're saying... im simply presenting ideas to the mix


Jesus may not have had to deal with asphyxiation because his legs were not broken... that is the idea behind breaking the legs, so they can't stand....

He might have survived...

And even the spear in the side... Flowing blood is a sign of life not death.... in the case of a dead body the heart does not pump blood so a flow of blood and water would not have happened... a dead body's blood flows to the lowest part of the body... which would have been his feet

He may have been able to survive the beatings and the crucifixion... Not saying he did, im saying its possible





posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:56 PM
link   
Is he not qualified to talk about the cause of death from crucifixion/asphyxiation?


Dr. Stein, a world authority for his work and writings in the field of forensic pathology, also had been the head of the pathology department at the Northern Illinois Medical Center in McHenry and was the former director of pathology and toxicology at Abbott Laboratories.


Dr. Robert J. Stein (From his obituary)


edit on 10-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I understand what you're saying... im simply presenting ideas to the mix




I just get frustrated. people who deny it despite the mountain of historical evidence are doing so because of an agenda. Even atheist and agnostic historians don't don't the crucifixion, calling it an "indisputable fact". That's hostile attestation.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 06:59 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


As Akragon said:

Jesus may not have had to deal with asphyxiation because his legs were not broken... that is the idea behind breaking the legs, so they can't stand....

He might have survived...

And even the spear in the side... Flowing blood is a sign of life not death.... in the case of a dead body the heart does not pump blood so a flow of blood and water would not have happened... a dead body's blood flows to the lowest part of the body... which would have been his feet

He may have been able to survive the beatings and the crucifixion... Not saying he did, im saying its possible


Why do you refuse to acknowledge newer research?

edit on 10-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:03 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Doctors detailing the crucifixion from the details in the gospels. AMA, peer-reviewed medical journal.

All good and well. Fine.
What about newly discovered texts, letters, etc. that refute "the gospels" as contained in the Bible?

What "agenda"?
I'm neither an agnostic nor a hostile atheist. I'm looking at the primary source evidence...and other scholars' points of view.
How is that an "agenda"?

So what if he did survive? Does that negate your faith? It needn't.



edit on 10-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus may not have had to deal with asphyxiation because his legs were not broken... that is the idea behind breaking the legs, so they can't stand....


I'm not sure you understand the physics of a crucifixion. If he didn't stand directly up putting all His weight on the nails through His feet He could not take a breath in. The longer this went on, because of the trauma from the scourging, his lungs and heart sack area were filling with blood and watery substance, and that began to limit His overall lung capacity.

When He was slumped for several minutes 10-20 the Romans knew He was dead. He couldn't have possibly got any oxygen in His lungs without extending Himself up on the nails. You cannot fake not breathing. It's like saying He was held underwater for 20 minutes and he "faked" it.

If you get a free hour sometime listen to the "*WARNING*" link on my sig. If for anything, to get a complete picture of what a Roman execution was life for Jesus with the scourging first. Eye-opening. It's super graphic though, not for any kids if they are in the room.


edit on 10-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:11 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



The soldiers could not be faked out,

Or....
the one in charge was not convinced he was guilty. He was doing his job.

Did you read the links?

Oh, no, of course you didn't. You get frustrated that your version is being challenged by newer, more comprehensive study.
There are letters, contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls, saying what happened. Why are those not as valid as an AMA peer reviewed journal who only studied the established story?

There is a lot of cross-referenced information linking both the Gospels of the KJV and newer, more recent discoveries, decodings, and relic-findings that refute the original story. Crucifixion took a long time.

I'm not trying to be threatening, NuT. I just really would like to know why new information is repellent to you.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus may not have had to deal with asphyxiation because his legs were not broken... that is the idea behind breaking the legs, so they can't stand....


I'm not sure you understand the physics of a crucifixion. If he didn't stand directly up putting all His weight on the nails through His feet He could not take a breath in. The longer this went on, because of the trauma from the scourging, his lungs and heart sack area were filling with blood and watery substance, and that began to limit His overall lung capacity.

When He was slumped for several minutes 10-20 the Romans knew He was dead. He couldn't have possibly got any oxygen in His lungs without extending Himself up on the nails. You cannot fake not breathing. It's like saying He was held underwater for 20 minutes and he "faked" it.

If you get a free hour sometime listen to the "*WARNING*" link on my sig. If for anything, to get a complete picture of what a Roman execution was life for Jesus with the scourging first. Eye-opening. It's super graphic though, not for any kids if they are in the room.


edit on 10-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Actually i do understand the physics behind it... and it depends on how its done...

Also considering he wasn't actually nailed to a cross, he was nailed to a pole(stake), likely with his hands over his head... Which would have made it all the harder for him to breath after a time...

Again im not saying he survived, im saying its possible....

Anything is possible with God.... remember?




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:12 PM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 



What about newly discovered texts, letters, etc. that refute "the gospels" as contained in the Bible?


I've brought up my response to that over a month ago.


"Chapter #1 ~ "Scholars Are Uncovering a Radically Different Jesus in Ancient Documents Just as Credible as the Four Gospels" in the book "The Case for the Real Jesus" By: Lee Strobel



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 



Anything is possible with God.... remember?


Sure yes, but He came to die. He said he came "to this hour".



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 07:17 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I've brought up my response to that over a month ago.

That was a month ago.
Since then, you have been exposed to information that you previously hadn't.
Fringe loonies?

Where do you draw the line? How does research and science and linguistics stop at your own readings and "a month ago"?

What would it take for you to say "fine, he survived. Still a savior, but was saved by his friends' medical knowledge, and the compassion of Pilate, in collusion with the Centurion who was merciful."

Are you in a rut? Why the sad face?

I guess you just don't want to keep up?
As in, "I like this version" and there go the fingers into the ears and the lalalala-ing?




top topics



 
4
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join