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Ron Paul: No Federal Financial Aid for Tornado Victims

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posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
I feel RP's words are taken out of context. I believe he means good and agree that there has to be a better way to help these victims. However, merely transferring the money to the states coffers will not get it done IMO. Eventually, they will live up the hype and be just as irresponsible as the federal agency.

What is the real solution? Hard to say, but something has to be done. More disasters are to come and sooner or later we won't be able to cover them all, regardless if it is fed or state money.



True the states to may be corrupt and the fouinding fathers knew that, the thing is they also knew the futher the government was from you the less control over it you have, that is why they limited the power of the FED in the constitution, by outlinging specifically what powers they had and leaving the rest to the states.

The thing is if you want to change your city government, you only have to convince a majority of your neignbors to agree with you, if you want to change your state government you only need to convince the majority of the people in your state, if you want to change the FED you have to convince the majority of the US to agree with you and even if you do most of the time nothing changes anyway. SO, your right the states getting their stolen powers back from the FED won't insure that their won't be corruption, but you as an individual will always have greater power and control over your state then Washington DC.




posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 



Ron Paul quite directly says he would not give the victims of the toranados from previous days federal aid.

Not a hypothetical...not if this or that...just he wouldn't do it right now.

Now...the states pay federal taxes now...so why would he restrict aid to them if that is what they are paying taxes for?

But it is indeed a hypothetical to put him in a position of making a decision about aid allocation yet at the same time not in a position of making decisions regarding the level of federal taxation...


You can try to sugar coat Ron Paul all you want

You can twist it how you want, but you are pretty far removed from representing his intentions as a leader.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by rockn82
 


They also ignored my response about Katrina after I pointed out that it was a perfect example of how federal aid can hurt more than it helps.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Grumble
Once again, the issue is that some people want to believe their side didn't lose the Civil War. Bottom line, this is a Nation, not a collection of States. We are supposed to be patriotic Americans, are we not? All for one and one for all? Should we not help our neighbors, our fellow countrymen, in their time of need?


Absolutely. If you fall into a well I would spend every penny I had to save you. However, if you fell into that well 4 more times, I would say your on your own. Although just being American doesn't earn you any entitlements beyond the rights you are born with, this is the thing people forget. I will ask the same question that I asked muse7. If I need to put the $1000.00 per year that my insurance costs me into clothing or something else, would it be ok for me to cancel my insurance and depend on everybody else to take care of my house after I cancel said insurance.

Perhaps the well is not the best analogy (I do love analogies), because I don't fault people for living where they love to live. I just have a problem with the people that feel they are entitled to things they have not earned.

If we don't follow the constitution then why have it? Should it be tossed and re-written?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by squidboy
 


The problem with your idea is that this is not the America of the late 1700s.

We are a nation of over 300 million people at this point.

Do you realize all the time and effort that would have to be put into powering down the Federal government? Who has the time or patience for such a task? And why would they do it when they can continue to get money from corporations to toe the status quo?


I stated we reached an event horizon, a hypothetical point of no return. Yes, I understand that today's America and 1700's America are different places. Years and years of Federal growth have brought us to this point, so hypothetically why can't we have years and years of restructuring and a reversal of course; with an end goal of stabilization?

"Who has the time or patience?"

Good question. I think that's the problem with today's generation, it's all about immediate results. I'm not sure if technology is to blame or what but it's a common trait. I guess no one has the time or patience, but we need to find it.

There is no immediate answer for our current problems, never claimed to have one. If you know Dr. Paul's rhetoric, you would also understand that he is not promising immediate change, but a gradual change by re-establishing and adhering to the constitutional power structures that fostered our nations prosperity ... No one is going to solve this mess immediately, and he points that out. It's too far great a problem, to make such promises; we can only localize the root causes of said problems, and work to eventually reverse course.

The Elephant in the Room is the the growing Federal Government. This can be statistically proven in many areas.

I do know one thing, raising the debt ceiling and just continually growing the Federal Government is NOT THE ANSWER. It hasn't worked in the past, it isn't working today, and it will not work tomorrow.

(side note) This almost feels like being on a speeding train, knowing that the track is out and the train is headed for a cliff. Half the passengers are screaming for the train to slow down, stop, reverse, and change track. The other half of the passengers are upset at the possibility of running late and are yelling at the other passengers that the train must continue on course, but go faster ( hoping to clear the cliff and reach the unseen tracks on the other side of the cliff). The train conductor makes an announcement that they can probably reach the other side of the cliff, will continue on course, to ignore the passengers requesting the train to stop, and to enjoy the complimentary beverages.... Insanity....



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 


Must we judge all disasters like we judge Katrina?

I blame the previous administration and Michael Brown for the response to that disaster.

Heckuva job, Brownie!



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by rockn82
 





I just have a problem with the people that feel they are entitled to things they have not earned.


How is it entitlement if you are taking advantage of a program or system in place?

I feel that as a tax paying citizen I(we) have earned the right to ask for help if we need it.

This is not entitlement, this is using the system put in place to your advantage. To give you another shot at rebuilding what you have worked for as a tax paying citizen of the United States.

Dont take taxes out of my check and I will not ask for assistance if I truly need it.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


I feel that people who think like this are brainwashed from years of right-wing propaganda.

They don't realize that as long as WE pay taxes, we ARE entitled to reap something from them!



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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FEMA told the people of the Joplin MI tornado that they wouldn't help them to do insuficent damages when their whole house was leveled.

The relief programs should be ran through the state, not federal. The bigger something is the easier it is to corrupt and fail.

I do not agree with Ron Paul and his libertarian views, I think social programs and public schools are a great thing. He is just THE less corrupted candidate.
edit on 4-3-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


Sure, if the states all had sizable disaster funds, which they do not.

This kind of change won't happen overnight if ever.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 



Dont take taxes out of my check and I will not ask for assistance if I truly need it.

Which is much more fair and what Ron Paul is advocating.

People who advocate the system of coercively funded relief so that they are not required take responsibility for their own life and take out insurance are those who think they are entitled to something they have not earned and I too have a problem with them.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


That is what I don't understand. People seem to get more upset over welfare moms than bank bail outs. It's ridiculous. And yes I am entitled to a social program if needed, because I paid into them.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by DrinkYourDrug
 


Again, you fail to realize that there are people who CANNOT afford this so-called insurance!

And what if the insurance doesn't cover the specific damage?

Is this site full of drones or what? WAKE UP!



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


I agree.

It's because those same people are conditioned to hate their fellow citizens, especially those that are less-fortunate.

They're playing into a huge trap by doing so.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


You don't need the Government to take your money, shave a cut off the top, and hand it to their friends. You can donate money to a church, or community leader. The States also can set up an emergency fund if they see fit.

Eliminating federal aid, and putting the power in the state just saves money and eliminates bureaucracy.

Some people have no understanding of what Ron Paul is trying to do. He's cutting Federal programs and regulations, and putting that power in the states. Than there is less loops to go through.

Just because the Government doesn't hold your hand doesn't mean you can't walk. You don't need taxes to help people, you can fund raise.



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


Especially health insurance. How is an 18 year old supposed to afford to go to the doctor when their chances of getting a job that provides insurance is incredibly slim? Be indebted thousands of dollars because you happened to get sick? Its ridiculous....
edit on 4-3-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by rockn82
 





I just have a problem with the people that feel they are entitled to things they have not earned.


How is it entitlement if you are taking advantage of a program or system in place?


I covered this in an earlier post when I pointed out welfare. Like I said in that post, I have no issues with helping those who NEED it. However, going to the neighbor and asking them for firewood during the winter because you sat around playing your guitar on the front porch all summer and didn't get any wood for yourself IS what I am talking about. Going to that same neighbor every year and asking for more wood means that a system of dependence is formed. The neighbor gets a bunch of wood, you don't and when they finally tell you no because they are tired of giving you wood, then what? Should you go to the next neighbor? Using a system in place is not a horrible thing. Taking advantage of that same system is wrong. You know, "give a man a fish" and all that.
As for your exact question on how it is entitlement, well, I don't have a good analogy for that at the moment. But!! If you have insurance and I don't, but yet I expect everybody else to take care of my "stupidity" then I am entitling myself to your money. (I guess I got a little analogy in that anyway.)



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 



Again, you fail to realize that there are people who CANNOT afford this so-called insurance!

So why do these people feel it is their right to inhabit a tornado alley and have others clean up for them when their house is destroyed? The free market vastly reduces the damage caused by natural disasters because it makes sure a lot less people can afford to live in high-risk areas.


And what if the insurance doesn't cover the specific damage?

If you live in tornado alley make sure your insurance covers tornado damage... Shouldn't be too hard....


Is this site full of drones or what? WAKE UP!




posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


Tell me about it. Not to get too off-topic but I have medicine that I must take everyday and the cost of that medicine is outrageous. For some reason, the insurance doesn't cover it.

It's a waste.

Why pay into privately-owned insurance policies if they just deny you and shovel the money from your premiums into the CEO's account?



posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


What happened before there was Health Insurance? People stood around and watched them die, because they don't know how to help anyone who doesn't have health insurance? Health insurance is the only way people are willing to save someone's life or help someone who is down on their luck?

What happened to having responsible parents?
What happened to having friends, and maintaining relationships?
What happened to small business owners, who paid less in tax and could afford health insurance?
What happened to health insurance that provided a service instead of a government-aided ponzi scheme that requires you to pay money, that puts you on the "pre existing condition" list anyway?



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