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Originally posted by blarged
Hi this is my first thread regarding politics so excuse me if i lack some understanding.
Now i know there is a fair few advocates for socialism on ATS here, as well as capitalism. So i was hoping one of either (both stances would be preferable) would be able to answer a question i have. If anyone is wondering i don't really believe either system has the fix-it-all economic solution to our world. I am merely looking for the answers.
I have a flatmate who is a bit of a socialist veteran and has been researching it intensively for years. He has many, many books on it. He believes that Capitalism is a heavily flawed system and that it will soon fall.
He believes that it will fall because it has a need to constantly expand. I asked him why this would happen and he says that 'this is a world of finite people and finite resources and that this constant expansion will inevitably be its downfall. It will all fall when theres no more room to expand'
This confuses me greatly... I always figured that corporations and companies can only exist if there is a market for their products or services. Therefore I believe that they could only expand themselves if the market and demand for their products/services increased. And if the market does increase, then within the company; profits, wages and product value should increase also. If there is no increase in profits then there wouldnt be expansion right? And when profits begin to decline then so does the company.
So why is expansion a bad thing?
Why and how is it always expanding even when profits go down?
And what the hell is this expansion limit thats supposed to destroy capitalism worldwide forever? Exactly what happens within the economy when this limit is hit? Apparently this is the view of a lot of Socialists and 'Great Thinkers' have, so i figured somebody here could answer my question. Pro Capitalists are welcome to answer too. Thanks
Believing that neither has all the answers is the most intelligent position in my opinion.
I think this garbage system will fail because everything is screwed up... I also think 5 Billion people
shoveling all their money to 1,000 people is not a recipe for success. But I wouldn't blame that on
capitalism, or socialism, it is just that the world rewards corruption and wealth with extra benefits
that eventually compound into more and more corruption and consolidation of power AKA money.
Well, I think capitalism is the natural war to opporate in the world. It is how you give and take
and it is symbolic of the work process (you give to receive, like you plant seeds and get food
in return) so I think it will always be the back bone of any system, but it is also very susceptible to
corruption because it is based upon competition. As we all know, many will try to win at all
costs, on such a large scale, it is hard to detect or effect large scale corrupt, manipulation and
criminality. This current system might fail when people get tired of the cheating, or when the
uber wealthy dicide to depopulate the Earth.
The laws of supply and demand are complete BS in my opinion... They can explain somethings
but they do not explain everything and they complete fail explaining other things. It is the WORST
part of capitalism, people believe in it like it was a religion.
Inside the company you are mentioning above, you ASSUME that "wages and product value" are
actually of any concern to management. I think raising wages is probably not in the benefit of
many companies because that means management gets smaller bonuses. Raising wages is
only a good thing when you need to retain employees, or if you are not so concerned about profits.
In America, the top (imagine a company) of the citizenry are getting massively more wealthy,
while the bottom earns less and less. Meanwhile prices go up and up, which is why the top is
getting more and more wealthy. In theory prices should fall when the majority of people are living
on less, but here in America the opposite is true. Because the theory is a big pile of bollicks
Well it's bad when it actually starts hurting the Earth or the people who inhabit it. If profit motive
makes people go hungry it is bad (for them) and good for the rich bastards who concocted the
Because many businesses will go to China and employ slave labor to maintain over all
profitability. But this undermines the host population which creates more contraction of
the bottom economic rungs. then businesses FORCE people to accept less and less and less
because there is no other option.
That is crazy in my opinion, capitalism is a good force when it is not destroying people mindlessly.
I think naked capitalism should be employed in small endeavors
Originally posted by blarged
I agree. But both sides are always competing with the 'i'm right, your wrong' attitude which at the end of the day doesnt get anyone anywhere because both sides generally walk away feeling as though they have won their debate regardless
Too true. I think that the people are more to blame then the system itself however. They become consumed by greed and subsequently become sociopaths no longer caring about their workers.
Absolutely. Not all of us care for others in the same way or at all for that matter. It also doesn't help that the media is full of liars and cheaters as well. Same could be said about government. While sheeple may be a little thick and dull they know when they have been wronged personally
Don't quite follow you here. Care to elaborate?
I'm talking about lets say... a successful company within a thriving industry. Wages wont necessarily need to be driven down in order to maintain profits. And successful companies (not always) generally do give their workers better benefits and better pay. And i agree that prices should fall. But don't they go up usually due to money inflation?
Yes but how does expansion hurt the earth and its people? Are you talking about environmental pollution and resource theft? Thats a different case altogether. Lets just say expansion without those two. How is that bad?
That is one of my key issues with Capitalism. Outsourcing of jobs is evidently greed-based and theres no excuse for it really. Especially with all the redundancies that are incurred as a result. Such a selfish act.
I'm glad we share the same view but not quite the full answer i was looking for. Thank you very much for your time. I shall look into 'naked capitalism' as this is a term i haven't heard yet.edit on 4/3/12 by blarged because: (no reason given)