Chimpanzee vs. Human child learning

A brief, interesting clip from National Geographic's "Ape Genius" documentary, comparing how a chimpanzee learns when compared with human children. An experiment conducted at St Andrews University revealed that while children tried to tackle a puzzle without trying to analyze it, chimps of the same age used logic and managed to solve it This test shows that the human child, even when given tasks that obviously have no meaning, follows the instructions given to them by the perceived authority figure, whereas the chimpanzees are more pragmatic, and exclude the extraneous steps. I feel that this is a good example of why it is important to raise children to believe as many true things and disregard as many false things as possible. Children are our shared future, and teaching them to think critically and rationally, so they can grow up to be mindful, effective adults that use reason to help build a better world is vitally important.

The video made me think primarily about the role authority plays in the decisions we make, the children obviously did what they thought they should do because of what they were being told. Apparently the children tested were from all over the world, so that shoots down the idea that 'western' children might be more inclined to listen to authority (which is something I would have suspected).

The chimp got to the goal a lot faster by ignoring the teacher. I'm wondering if this is a flaw humans have developed as a result of living for generations in governed societies. Listening to authority has its values of course, but is what we lose more valuable?

Yes i think overall you got it.

It wouldnt supprise me humans getting more stupid over time is pure evolution and adaption at its pinicle, we hit a comfortable life (mostly compared to any animals) why develop more. And more to that, if we are not pushed to use our intelligence, specifically in our direct enviroment for survival, we will not develop the same abilitys a "lesser" animal who is pushed the limit can achieve.

This is fairly well documented in studys with the same species of birds from diferent enviroments were smarter the harder they were pushed, in their enviroment.

This is an excellent you tube documentary from the BBC and is a great watch, totallys show exactly what i have said so far. Its an hour an ep however, sorry

Sad but true, we are in a society where it is looked down upon and punishable if you question or disagree with the authority figure "teaching" you (education system for an example, if you do not get a question "right", you will be punished with a bad grade). Even though the majority of breakthroughs are from people who question the facts that are brought forward to them, or was once thought of as indisputable facts. World being flat, planets revolving around the sun, the undeniable existence of a God, all just a few of the many. But they're still many questions that can not be answered using the formulas we are currently using, how bee's fly being one, it doesn't match how mathematics and physics, according to them, a bee should not fly. Yet, instead of questioning our technique, we just leave it as a fact that they should not be able to fly, under our laws of understanding.

Sadly, the questioning innovator must struggle for many years, fighting a constant battle just to get their thesis looked at in a professional manner, and evolve the understanding of the universe for all of humanity. It's easy to see that we are going wrong in certain areas, and its easy to conclude that we need to be more innovative and collect new ideas to help push ourselves forward as mankind.

Are we smarter than chimps?

Nope.


At least our memory abilities aren't.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Thats actually part of the documentary i posted.
That monkey is the son of a mother trained in the same ways.

He has been playing that game for a LONG time, im pretty sure a kid fed sweets for a few years could match or beat it - its a little misleading more to do with memory too.

reply to post by Biigs


Considering sodium fluoride is cumulative in the body, I don't see the humans consuming it getting any better with memory or intellectual abilities. Sweets with aspartame are a nice chaser for the fluoride.

reply to post by Biigs


great find, I have seen clips that were taken from that video, amazing stuff. I used to think that what the animal kingdom lacked in emotion/compassion, we humans had gained. But it doesnt hold true, looking at our pets, and hearing stories about dolphins saving divers from sharks, hearing about their ability to use speech in the same way we do... I just dont buy it. It seems almost that humans have freedom above animals, to think and behave in more complex ways. But with that freedom came the ability to go against what is 'right' in nature. It's hard to define.

You would think then that Chimps would be futher advanced than humans.

reply to post by el1jah


Interesting question for you.

Who would be able to teach a monkey to peel a banana faster, his mother or a human teacher?

I propose that the monkeys geneticly enherited reflex and instinct will learn faster in its natural environment than a bazzare labratory environment with humans.

We cant expect too much because at a fundemental level the other animal knows only its own from birth, possibly more preprogramed compared to us because we no longer relay on instinct or reflex with our ability to perceive and control the environment we live in.

reply to post by Biigs


I agree that the chimp would do it faster, and also your reasoning, their instinct plays a vital role, and their experience from youth in nature would make peeling the banana fast very important (from the risks of living in nature). Modern humans have bypassed the natural risks, I think this has led to our further developing 'identity'. It is this identity that now drives the choices we make, the new external/natural pressures on us are the predators of style and trends, of consumerism, and ultimately money - those really makes us move efficiently (if we want them bad enough). Now our relationship with nature has become distant, if there is a flood, we build barriers, if there is a tornado, we put up a stronger roof. It makes me think about those people who will get to work in the worst snowstorm, risking their life because their psychological drives are more powerful than their instinct.

Originally posted by el1jah
The video made me think primarily about the role authority plays in the decisions we make, the children obviously did what they thought they should do because of what they were being told.

Yes, and nothing was told to the chimpanzees, so they decided what their goal was.

I'm sure that if they had told the kids "just get the sweet" they would do it without all that tapping, pushing and poking.

Edit: and no, I don't see it as a flaw.

reply to post by ArMaP


Both the chimps and the children were not told anything, they were shown the same act, for the same reward, the kids assumed they had to follow instructions, while the chimps did not make the same assumption. I think that assumption is the flaw. Obviously it's not about who is smarter, rather about the nature of learning.

reply to post by el1jah


The video shows a man saying to a little bot "this game we're going to play is about this special box I brought". He didn't say (in the video) that the goal was to get the candy.

As far as I know they didn't say a thing to the chimpanzees.