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Cymatic Experiments - Harmonics - Atomic Alignment - Sacred Geometry - Nature's Art

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posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz


Exactly my point. Here we have a solid matter behaving as a liquid. Which is precisely what is shown in the particle "firing through slits" experiment.

no, not really. the water is just used to demonstrate how waves cancel out, the particle-wave duality of matter and the uncertainty principle only really happen at sub-sub atomic scales. there is no measurable or observable uncertainty in the position of the grains of sand.

did you perhaps watch the documentary "what the bleep do we know?" because it takes quantum mechanics and puts a new age spin on the concepts that don't reflect reality.


I have watched that movie, but I'm referring to the experiment done within that film (the cartoon with dr quantum.) there is no new age spin in that section of the film.

They demonstrate that particles make a wave interference pattern when fired through two slits... one at a time... just like water. But when they watch this process through a "measuring device" the particles return to acting like solids. (I have posted this clip on the previous page of this thread, if you want to review it and search for any "new age" connotations.)

They cannot explain how simply "watching" makes the particles lose the wave interference pattern.
edit on 3-3-2012 by Aqualung2012 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 

there is a difference between the waves in the water, and the waves that are particles. it's kind of like heat is kinetic energy, but throwing a baseball doesn't cause it to burst into flames.

we don't know the precise mechanism that causes the wave function to collapse, but that it can interfere with itself because of an uncertainty in it's position due to it's non-localization.

the water wave goes through both slits, but the particle-wave goes only through slit "a", and only through slit "b", it also goes through both slits and neither slit all at the same time. the states are in superposition if it isn't being observed, but what exactly an "observer" is and how it effects particle-waves is vaguely defined/understood.

consciousness isn't directly needed to collapse the wave function, as what does the observing in the double slit experiment isn't actually a human eye, nor human at all.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Right, it's a "measuring device." What I find to be so interesting is how even a "non-human" eye collapses the wave pattern.

It's as if the particles in the "measuring device" are aware themselves of being in and of a "measuring device" and are transmitting that intent it to the particles being fired...

Or perhaps through super position, the particles in and of the "measuring device" are trading themselves with the particles being fired, as an "expectation" is inherent in the design of the device! (e.g.: the scientist installing the device thinking "oh i can't wait to see these results!")

Ugh, the speculation spirals on and on and on...


edit on 3-3-2012 by Aqualung2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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In the film we see movement and know what caused the movement or pattern ie man made instruments
My question is - What is the source that was instrumental in creating the Big Bang and so the Cosmas we are aware of.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


That's WAAAAAY above top secret.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 


What !!! You mean not even Phage can explain or if he knows he is not telling
Seems every time Science finds an answer to big questions it comes up with more questions
I'm dissapointed and delighted all at the same time



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


Haha, no I don't think even the venerable Phage can put his mighty finger down on that one! (Try as he may)

But, back to the topic. If we run out of questions... I mean, really what's the point? Cymatics may be a narrower topic than quantum physics, and we may have more answers for it than we do quantum physics, but it's application is the continuous question.

Not to be too "new-agey," but each one of us is a mystery, an enigma, or so I believe. Each person, each moment each atom, literally defies definition... quite like the salt on the plate I think.

When given a stimuli, we spring into forms. From atomic particles arranging to make up cellular structures, to salt representing nodes of vibration, to human birth giving rise to the process of life and consciousness, to stars generating gravity and light... All of these things are tied together by the Now. They require a seamless and concentrated effort, energy.

The stimuli MUST be eternal, or else the forms would all collapse. Energy cannot be destroyed, as I have read. Only transformed...

Like Buddha says: "All things are impermanent." Looking closely at that statement, I find that "things" is important. Every "thing" which we can separate into a specific form WILL collapse, will transform. Matter being essentially energy is not exempt. But, Buddha also says that the Emptiness is eternal, and that all "things" arise from the emptiness.

So, if all "things" are impermanent, and energy is eternal... there we have understanding. Like a "wave (thing)" on a huge body of "water (energy)" we arise, move about, and fall back into the formless Void. But really, its not void at all... just not DEFINED!!!

So... if we run out of questions, I think consciousness will collapse. Just like when the vibration on the plate stops, the pattern will collapse.

*Perhaps the instrument which caused the big bang was the colossal implosion of the previous universe's worth of consciousness collapsing because they answered all the QUESTIONS!... and as our universe is still expanding, that is evidence of more questions still being created... and when there are no more, it'll retract as we answer them... until - BANG!*



edit on 3-3-2012 by Aqualung2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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I enjoyed this thread. I liked the sounds and seeing the patterns form was amazing. The Benzene ring was for me the best. An argument for an elegant Universe. We see these patterns everywhere, reminding ourselves.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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For the lack of a coherent way of understanding sound and any wave form visually/mentally, I ask what is an observer doing? What is the simplest kind of observer? Have you ever seen a video of a dark room with a white wall facing a blacked out window with a small hole? Essentially being inside a pinhole camera, you don't have to be in it to believe that it would do the same without you.
Can you equate this to the double slit experiment? The slit would be like the pinhole in that it transfers the picture on either side of the lens or hole! What is the smallest kind of pinhole camera? When we consider that atoms, molecules and lattice structures are mostly space, dark space. Are these arrangement of atoms and the spaces between and within them creating more iterations of pin hole cameras? Do materials in the observable universe "observe" reality for us? Is there some fractal nature in play as the pinhole cameras of your eyes reflect light into smaller pinhole cameras of the photo receptors which in turn reflect reality into molecular, sub atomic and who knows where the image ends! By the way I think what you see inside a pinhole camera is real time but at a lower refresh rate.
Of course as I finish these musings, the song in the background is "Insane in the membrane"...



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Phage

Since we are not talking about electromagnetic radiation here, no, it's not the same. Except that interference patterns are created. The only thing going on here is acoustical (mechanical) waves bumping into each other in very complex ways.


Yet if we could 'see' electromagnetic radiation interference patterns there's no reason that they couldn't form just as intricate patterns, if not more so....?



Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

did you perhaps watch the documentary "what the bleep do we know?" because it takes quantum mechanics and puts a new age spin on the concepts that don't reflect reality.


....that don't reflect observable, quantifiable reality.



Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

consciousness isn't directly needed to collapse the wave function, as what does the observing in the double slit experiment isn't actually a human eye, nor human at all.


The device simply records the experiment and converts it into a specific format so that it can be observed by scientists. Humans are still the only ones doing the observing. I think it is arguable that one must possess some semblance of consciousness in order to observe anything.



Originally posted by Emeraldous
Of course as I finish these musings, the song in the background is "Insane in the membrane"...


Cypress Hill eh. Of course all you did was play the song right.......




edit on 3/3/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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I found the BBC video about camera obscura, very short 3:30 mins.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 


It's as if the particles in the "measuring device" are aware themselves of being in and of a "measuring device" and are transmitting that intent it to the particles being fired...

No.
There is no awareness. It is in the nature of the device to cause the collapse.

Let's say I a have a balloon full of some unknown gas and I want to find out what that gas is. I can do this in a couple of ways (all of which will affect the balloon) but let's be dramatic. I use a hollow needle attached to a vacuum device to pierce the balloon and extract some of the gas to analyze it. I have collapsed the balloon and found that it contained oxygen. Yeah!

In checking your tire pressure you change it. In using a kitchen thermometer you change the temperature of what it is you are cooking. The observer causes the change by virtue of performing the observation because the observation cannot be made without doing so.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 3/3/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by 1littlewolf
 


Yet if we could 'see' electromagnetic radiation interference patterns there's no reason that they couldn't form just as intricate patterns, if not more so....

Electromagnetic waves do form interference patterns. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the comparison of mechanical waves to electromagnetic waves. Mechanical waves do not exhibit the wave/particle duality shown in the video.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by 1littlewolf
 



The device simply records the experiment and converts it into a specific format so that it can be observed by scientists. Humans are still the only ones doing the observing.


i've thought about this before, but it doesn't seem to make sense. what if the information was recorded, but not viewed by anyone, just deleted? in your theory, this wouldn't cause the wave function to collapse. this would also require the particles to "know" the future.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aqualung2012
 


It's as if the particles in the "measuring device" are aware themselves of being in and of a "measuring device" and are transmitting that intent it to the particles being fired...

No.
There is no awareness. It is in the nature of the device to cause the collapse.

Let's say I a have a balloon full of some unknown gas and I want to find out what that gas is. I can do this in a couple of ways (all of which will affect the balloon) but let's be dramatic. I use a hollow needle attached to a vacuum device to pierce the balloon and extract some of the gas to analyze it. I have collapsed the balloon and found that it contained oxygen. Yeah!

In checking your tire pressure you change it. In using a kitchen thermometer you change the temperature of what it is you are cooking. The observer causes the change by virtue of performing the observation because the observation cannot be made without doing so.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 3/3/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


You are correct. The only think that is missing is the ... why ?
And that is the big question.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


You know you need to be careful or you will really miss phage. I see you often taking the mysterious out of the equation but even Einstein was discovering the complexity and integration of balance by meditating to tap into the divine, the sublime, the mysterious and intelligence and 'knowing' above and beyond plain old , old science.

It takes a knowing higher than intellect to truly become open to the next higher understanding. He knew far too late for public but 'got it' in his personal life.

Nothing new can be discovered from the mental, intellectual, it must come from intuitive which has nothing to do with mental science, it has everything to do with the science of the inner.

I hope you find that balance.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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I LOVE the thread and have worked with my children on the subjects touched on here, it really has made them more open and understanding to the whole.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by antar
 

Some people find beauty in mathematics and physics.
Some people find beauty in understanding how things work.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 

Thanks enjoyed reading your post - I like your thinking.
I think the experiment shows an underlying pattern or principle that is in everything.
like mega structures such as galaxys - whos geometry is measurable by mathmatics and falls into patterns
The sand already existed in our reality we changed that reality with instruments causing it to vibrate into patterns
Of course we might be in trouble if the sands ot the Sahara started to vibrate such
I think the sand was already vibrating at its natural frequency like all things do.

But yes Buddah and such had many of things nailed a long time ago -
Maybe we ask the same fundamental questions of reality but from a different perspective and technology- being all modern and that - and come up with different answers that are merely fascets or interpretations of the bigger picture.
We stand on the shoulders of giants



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by antar
 

Some people find beauty in mathematics and physics.
Some people find beauty in understanding how things work.


Correct again.

E= MC2
No math is needed to know this's wrong.



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