Can Time exist within Time?

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Oh, I've come to terms with that. The same amount of time elapsed for me as for anyone else. The actual experience was a bit different. I wouldn't say time was exactly stretched, but it was different. Once you go through that white tube thing, things won't be the same, and it is impossible to relate to anyone who hasn't experienced it yet. (Or don't remember...)

Yay! Got my 20 posts! Now I can flag this thread as it deserves!

Originally posted by godspetrat
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Oh, I've come to terms with that. The same amount of time elapsed for me as for anyone else. The actual experience was a bit different. I wouldn't say time was exactly stretched, but it was different. Once you go through that white tube thing, things won't be the same, and it is impossible to relate to anyone who hasn't experienced it yet. (Or don't remember...)

Yay! Got my 20 posts! Now I can flag this thread as it deserves!

Glad you brushed off those cobwebs and got chatty.

On the "white tube thing" I have a question.

Would you say it felt/looked like being a pulse of light (photon) flowing thru fiber optic cable, alongside zillions of other photons flowing thru their fiber in the cable?

Ribbit

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by godspetrat
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Oh, I've come to terms with that. The same amount of time elapsed for me as for anyone else. The actual experience was a bit different. I wouldn't say time was exactly stretched, but it was different. Once you go through that white tube thing, things won't be the same, and it is impossible to relate to anyone who hasn't experienced it yet. (Or don't remember...)

Yay! Got my 20 posts! Now I can flag this thread as it deserves!

Glad you brushed off those cobwebs and got chatty.

On the "white tube thing" I have a question.

Would you say it felt/looked like being a pulse of light (photon) flowing thru fiber optic cable, alongside zillions of other photons flowing thru their fiber in the cable?

Ribbit

It was just a pure white glowing yet not overwhelming sphere of light, as far as I can remember. Nothing fearsome, though I somehow knew I would be questioned, and was.

Originally posted by godspetrat

It was just a pure white glowing yet not overwhelming sphere of light, as far as I can remember. Nothing fearsome, though I somehow knew I would be questioned, and was.

It had to be an eYe opening experience.

Imagine what the experience is like when you wake up from this completely.

Ribbit

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by godspetrat

It was just a pure white glowing yet not overwhelming sphere of light, as far as I can remember. Nothing fearsome, though I somehow knew I would be questioned, and was.

It had to be an eYe opening experience.

Imagine what the experience is like when you wake up from this completely.

Ribbit

The only thing I have to fear about death now is the more advanced entities asking me:

"Why are you back here so soon?"

"Well, I like to smoke and drink..."

Originally posted by godspetrat

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by godspetrat

It was just a pure white glowing yet not overwhelming sphere of light, as far as I can remember. Nothing fearsome, though I somehow knew I would be questioned, and was.

It had to be an eYe opening experience.

Imagine what the experience is like when you wake up from this completely.

Ribbit

The only thing I have to fear about death now is the more advanced entities asking me:

"Why are you back here so soon?"

"Well, I like to smoke and drink..."

With me, my answer would be more like . . .

I swear! I didn't know she was married.

Ribbit

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by godspetrat

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by godspetrat

It was just a pure white glowing yet not overwhelming sphere of light, as far as I can remember. Nothing fearsome, though I somehow knew I would be questioned, and was.

It had to be an eYe opening experience.

Imagine what the experience is like when you wake up from this completely.

Ribbit

The only thing I have to fear about death now is the more advanced entities asking me:

"Why are you back here so soon?"

"Well, I like to smoke and drink..."

With me, my answer would be more like . . .

I swear! I didn't know she was married.

Ribbit

Heck, I've got a married woman interested in me right now! I won't go there. Just think of the children! I have no particular desire to be shot either, and go through that tunnel of light again!

reply to post by ButtUglyToad

First, Compression is caused by exerting force, which then causes a pressure differential.

Correct: But, if a dimension is infinite initially how can there exist a exerting force (time)?

A infinite dimension is a constant initially. This dimension has no reason to change. And this dimension have no exerting force present.

Initially a compression is not caused by a exerting force, because it dosent exist. The compression (time) must be caused by the infinite dimension alone.


"If you have a infinite dimension and a exerting force; you have two different dimensions present". This means that time has started already.

Time must be present before a compression can take place. Because a compression can not just instigate on its own without a reason/cause. It is this cause that must be the initial cause of time. But it can not be a external force, because nothing can exist out side of a infinite dimension. So the cause must instigated by the infinite.

Now, if a infinite dimension is a constant how can the dimension start a compression?

The only way it can take place is by:

1. Reason.
2. Action.

The infinite dimension must have a reason to change. The infinite dimension must also take action, because nothing else is present to do so.

As to your Expansion comment, I totally agree, but then, how does that apply to the expansion of the Universe?

First you have to understand that compressed energies have a different energy mass than the infinite. Its like a rock surrounded by a volume of atmosphere. You have two different states of mass energy. One that is very compressed (rock), and one state that is a lot less compressed (air). The rock will emit its compressed energies to the atmosphere, because air has less pressure. Pressure will always try to expand. Since the rock have a more compressed energy mass than air. The rock will emit its compressed energies to the atmosphere. The atmosphere will emit is energies to a atmosphere with less pressure than it has. Air will never try to compress it self to become a rock. But the rock will try to expand to the atmosphere.

The infinite dimension is not a compressed dimension. It is neither positive or negative; it just is. Its like a absolute vacuum. A absolute vacuum is neither positive or negative. It is absolutely neutral.

No matter what you place in a absolute vacuum. The matter will always be positive compared to the vacuum.

Since the vacuum/infinite is actually neutral the matter will emit its energies to it. That is how our universe is allowed to expand.

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by Baron01
A thought cannot exist in the past because it did never exist. For the observer it looks like the thought was real but in reality there were only selfmade (not even selfmade but it feels like that) signals going off in the brain which the observer observes as a thought.

The observer doesn't exist without thought.

Can consciousness exist without thinking thought?

Ribbit

edit on 5-3-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

The observer doesn't need any thought to exist. If it needs any thought in order to exist it wouldn't exist because thoughts are illusions. Basically everything that occurs within the brain is an illusion. Without the observer (your true self) you wouldn't be here typing on the forum.

The observer is like space. What is always here even if you don't think or do anything at all? Everything changes: your body, your beliefs, your life situation, your clothes. But something which isn't really a thing did not change, it's you. You can call it the observer, God, consciousness, awareness or whatever you like it are just words to describe the indescribable.

reply to post by Baron01

The observer doesn't need any thought to exist. If it needs any thought in order to exist it wouldn't exist because thoughts are illusions. Basically everything that occurs within the brain is an illusion. Without the observer (your true self) you wouldn't be here typing on the forum.

The observer is like space. What is always here even if you don't think or do anything at all? Everything changes: your body, your beliefs, your life situation, your clothes. But something which isn't really a thing did not change, it's you. You can call it the observer, God, consciousness, awareness or whatever you like it are just words to describe the indescribable.

The observer needs to exist to be able to have a thought. A thought is not a illusion. A thought exists at the very moment it is being formed. And it takes time to form a thought.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Baron01

 

The observer doesn't need any thought to exist. If it needs any thought in order to exist it wouldn't exist because thoughts are illusions. Basically everything that occurs within the brain is an illusion. Without the observer (your true self) you wouldn't be here typing on the forum.

The observer is like space. What is always here even if you don't think or do anything at all? Everything changes: your body, your beliefs, your life situation, your clothes. But something which isn't really a thing did not change, it's you. You can call it the observer, God, consciousness, awareness or whatever you like it are just words to describe the indescribable.

The observer needs to exist to be able to have a thought. A thought is not a illusion. A thought exists at the very moment it is being formed. And it takes time to form a thought.

When you think about let's say your dog. Is your dog really there?

reply to post by Baron01

When you think about let's say your dog. Is your dog really there?

If i think about my a dog which i dont have.

No, the dog is not there, but my thought about the Dog is. The thought is real.
I have to be existent and aware to be able to have the thought. I must also know what a dog is, to be able to form a thought about the Dog. So the dog(s) must also exist. Just not in my possession.

We can not make a thought about something that does not exist in one way or another. But we can manufacture a fictional thought about something that does not exist if we put our mind to it. You have to do it by will.

reply to post by spy66


I don't know if this world is really real but it sure feels like real. Stub your toe and it hurts. Mess up and you die. Seems about as real as it can get. If that dog that may not exist craps on your floor, it still has to be cleaned up. If that dog bites you it still must be treated so it does not get infected. If you don't feed that dog that may not exist you may find it trying to eat you. Since everything seems to show it exists then in our reality it does exist. No matter what we feel is really out there we still need to be able to operate semi-normally in this reality or will suffer consequences. Pondering on other options is ok, but awareness of where we are here and now is crucial. sorry to disturb your train of thought, I just want to make sure the trains still on the tracks.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Well time is relative to how much space is stretched by either mass or energy. So looking at it from this point of view all sorts of time or mixed up.

But you are sort of refering to a Platonic time place, right? I think time is just entropy or at least the arrow of time is what we call entropy. Since space is expanding (either being stretched or "growing"), I am not surprised that entropy is increasing as a net.

The idea that our 3d world with time as a virtual 4th space dimension is a holograph created by the outer surface of the Universe (which then is the holographic plate), is quite interesting.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Baron01

 

When you think about let's say your dog. Is your dog really there?

If i think about my a dog which i dont have.

No, the dog is not there, but my thought about the Dog is. The thought is real.
I have to be existent and aware to be able to have the thought. I must also know what a dog is, to be able to form a thought about the Dog. So the dog(s) must also exist. Just not in my possession.

We can not make a thought about something that does not exist in one way or another. But we can manufacture a fictional thought about something that does not exist if we put our mind to it. You have to do it by will.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

I just gave an example. Think about something you do have. It looks very real but it isn't.


''No, the dog is not there, but my thought about the Dog is. The thought is real.''

Where is the thought? Is the thought real or do you think the thought is real?

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

First, Compression is caused by exerting force, which then causes a pressure differential.

Correct: But, if a dimension is infinite initially how can there exist a exerting force (time)?

A infinite dimension is a constant initially. This dimension has no reason to change. And this dimension have no exerting force present.

Initially a compression is not caused by a exerting force, because it dosent exist. The compression (time) must be caused by the infinite dimension alone.


"If you have a infinite dimension and a exerting force; you have two different dimensions present". This means that time has started already.

Time must be present before a compression can take place. Because a compression can not just instigate on its own without a reason/cause. It is this cause that must be the initial cause of time. But it can not be a external force, because nothing can exist out side of a infinite dimension. So the cause must instigated by the infinite.

Now, if a infinite dimension is a constant how can the dimension start a compression?

The only way it can take place is by:

1. Reason.
2. Action.

The infinite dimension must have a reason to change. The infinite dimension must also take action, because nothing else is present to do so.

As to your Expansion comment, I totally agree, but then, how does that apply to the expansion of the Universe?

First you have to understand that compressed energies have a different energy mass than the infinite. Its like a rock surrounded by a volume of atmosphere. You have two different states of mass energy. One that is very compressed (rock), and one state that is a lot less compressed (air). The rock will emit its compressed energies to the atmosphere, because air has less pressure. Pressure will always try to expand. Since the rock have a more compressed energy mass than air. The rock will emit its compressed energies to the atmosphere. The atmosphere will emit is energies to a atmosphere with less pressure than it has. Air will never try to compress it self to become a rock. But the rock will try to expand to the atmosphere.

The infinite dimension is not a compressed dimension. It is neither positive or negative; it just is. Its like a absolute vacuum. A absolute vacuum is neither positive or negative. It is absolutely neutral.

No matter what you place in a absolute vacuum. The matter will always be positive compared to the vacuum.

Since the vacuum/infinite is actually neutral the matter will emit its energies to it. That is how our universe is allowed to expand.

Sew then, what hapens when you finite the Infinite, which would require compressing the Infinite into a defined amount of Space?

Ribbit

Ps: You said:

"The infinite dimension must have a reason to change."

Sew why did the Infinite finite itself?

Answer: To have Children!

Pps: You also said:

"Since the vacuum/infinite is actually neutral the matter will emit its energies to it. That is how our universe is allowed to expand."

No! That's your science's theory on the expansion, when in thuth, how the Universe can expand is it is growing back into its Infinite once self and as you stated, for there to be gowth, there must be a force exerted and that force comes from within and without each of the two spatial verses.

Originally posted by Baron01

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by Baron01
A thought cannot exist in the past because it did never exist. For the observer it looks like the thought was real but in reality there were only selfmade (not even selfmade but it feels like that) signals going off in the brain which the observer observes as a thought.

The observer doesn't exist without thought.

Can consciousness exist without thinking thought?

Ribbit

edit on 5-3-2012 by ButtUglyToad because: (no reason given)

The observer doesn't need any thought to exist. If it needs any thought in order to exist it wouldn't exist because thoughts are illusions. Basically everything that occurs within the brain is an illusion. Without the observer (your true self) you wouldn't be here typing on the forum.

The observer is like space. What is always here even if you don't think or do anything at all? Everything changes: your body, your beliefs, your life situation, your clothes. But something which isn't really a thing did not change, it's you. You can call it the observer, God, consciousness, awareness or whatever you like it are just words to describe the indescribable.

Saying the Observer is like Space is like saying the Person is the Body, sew that's kNot a good correlation.

The werd "observer" denotes one that watches, which requires action, which, of course, goes down IN Time and to observe/watch anything requires logical abilities, which then requires math, which require Thinking.

Have you ever thought of the possibility that everything you see as an individual observer is n0thing more than Thought?

As to the indescribable, it's only indescribable if you cannot observe it. Sew just because you dew kNot remember, doesn't mean others suffer from your amnesiatic condition, for the only description for our Mother is m0m.

Ribbit

Originally posted by Baron01

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Baron01

 

The observer doesn't need any thought to exist. If it needs any thought in order to exist it wouldn't exist because thoughts are illusions. Basically everything that occurs within the brain is an illusion. Without the observer (your true self) you wouldn't be here typing on the forum.

The observer is like space. What is always here even if you don't think or do anything at all? Everything changes: your body, your beliefs, your life situation, your clothes. But something which isn't really a thing did not change, it's you. You can call it the observer, God, consciousness, awareness or whatever you like it are just words to describe the indescribable.

The observer needs to exist to be able to have a thought. A thought is not a illusion. A thought exists at the very moment it is being formed. And it takes time to form a thought.

When you think about let's say your dog. Is your dog really there?

No, but neither are you!

Ribbit

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Baron01

 

When you think about let's say your dog. Is your dog really there?

If i think about my a dog which i dont have.

No, the dog is not there, but my thought about the Dog is. The thought is real.
I have to be existent and aware to be able to have the thought. I must also know what a dog is, to be able to form a thought about the Dog. So the dog(s) must also exist. Just not in my possession.

We can not make a thought about something that does not exist in one way or another. But we can manufacture a fictional thought about something that does not exist if we put our mind to it. You have to do it by will.

Once you Thunk IT, IT exists.

But many believe that if you can't see the fnords, they won't eat you.

Ribbit

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by spy66

 

I don't know if this world is really real but it sure feels like real. Stub your toe and it hurts. Mess up and you die. Seems about as real as it can get. If that dog that may not exist craps on your floor, it still has to be cleaned up. If that dog bites you it still must be treated so it does not get infected. If you don't feed that dog that may not exist you may find it trying to eat you. Since everything seems to show it exists then in our reality it does exist. No matter what we feel is really out there we still need to be able to operate semi-normally in this reality or will suffer consequences. Pondering on other options is ok, but awareness of where we are here and now is crucial. sorry to disturb your train of thought, I just want to make sure the trains still on the tracks.

If you could create a holographic reality (aka: Memorex) that you couldn't tell from real and everything that could happen for real, can also happen in your holographic reality, up to and including death, then what difference would there be between Real and Memorex?

Answer: No difference, except with the holographic reality, no one has to clean up the mess when the party's over.

Ribbit