Use retina poppers on Iraqi insurgents

The US has a dirty little weapon nicknamed a 'blinder.' Drop adherence to a couple conventions and they could be mass produced right away.

It's a laser the size of a flashlight that you can tape to the side of a rifle barrel really quickly. It takes low amounts of easily-rechargable power. It will pop your retinas from 500 yards away if you look at it when its fired.

The thing the jihadi were most scared of when fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan was the prospect of being wounded or blinded, especially by land mines which often popped off feet. Men in that society have to provide for their family and the idea of being an invalid was worse than being a martyr, or a Shaheed.

When the jihadi are fighting they don't care about dying. Commanders never said "We had five KIA," they said "Allah be praised, we had five Shaheed."

Shaheed is an Arab fighter killed in holy war. It's like the ultimate Catholic confession, you go straight to heaven no matter your life's sins.

The US is making a lot of Shaheed, and it doesn't seem like there's any end to the stream of martyrs.

So, start wounding them, not killing them. If you can't even look at the US troops it's pretty hard to fight them.

[edit on 20-9-2004 by taibunsuu]

I've often stated that when you're fighting fanatics, you have a fantastic weapon at your disposal....their own superstitions... Sadly, the administration chooses not to utilize this...and there are ways to do it without violating treaties/conventions, etc.

So i assume this would be like a super powerful laser pointer?

I can only see this weapon being effective if the soldier with this tech' is a sniper.

It wouldn't be a retina popper if it was aimed anywhere else.

Sanc'.
edit:context

[edit on 20-9-2004 by sanctum]

Bomb them with pig blood. No heaven, no 72 virgins. Take crop dusting planes and spray the problem areas with pig blood.

Do you really want to set a precedent for this type of warfare?

What happens in the event of a war with China or some other technologically advanced nation?
Do you want them to use this technology on US troops?

Technology of pig blood???

Bomb them with pig blood. No heaven, no 72 virgins. Take crop dusting planes and spray the problem areas with pig blood.

Now you're seeing the point...

I'm more for burying any of them face down, away from Mecca, and with a pig's foot thrown in for good measure, but your idea's good too, hehe.....

Originally posted by groingrinder
Bomb them with pig blood. No heaven, no 72 virgins. Take crop dusting planes and spray the problem areas with pig blood.

Yeah, that shows a great deal of respect for the majority of Muslims that actually live in peace.

I predict mirrored sunglasses will become all the rage in Iraq soon..!!

Originally posted by Koka

Originally posted by groingrinder
Bomb them with pig blood. No heaven, no 72 virgins. Take crop dusting planes and spray the problem areas with pig blood.

Yeah, that shows a great deal of respect for the majority of Muslims that actually live in peace.

I predict mirrored sunglasses will become all the rage in Iraq soon..!!

Yeah, right. All these peace loving Muslims would rise up and dispose of the rebel fighters. That is if they really were peace loving. The truth is, in the areas controlled by the rebels, there are no peace loving Muslims. If there were, they would make the rebel fighters leave.

AceOfBase if we use this technology against the Iraqi insurgency it will not make the Chinese suddenly want to use it against us. They'll want to use it against us even if we don't use it. Anything that works.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Do you really want to set a precedent for this type of warfare?

Well, don't fight the US and you won't be blinded. Seems simply. This is only part of the strategy. The dudes don't care about dying, not when people are in such a religious fervor that they're saying the soon-to-be martyrs are giving off sweet scents and are shining with auras and halos. Disabling wounds might make them think twice.

What happens in the event of a war with China or some other technologically advanced nation?
Do you want them to use this technology on US troops?

War conventions are only made to ensure that the nations with industrial power and money win. These guys we fight are too smart for that. There's no freaking honor I mean come on, sh*t or get off the pot. What's so great about getting hit with a .223mm bullet traveling 3,000 feet per second, the thing ricochets through your body at supersonic speeds, carves you up from the inside out and let's you die from irrepairable internal trauma and bleeding. That's one of the reasons why the countries adopted it - bigger drain on manpower to care for the wounded than it is to leave the dead.

But if you want the weapons to sound nice, we can always just say that the blinder is an advanced laser site with the side-effect of blinding the target. Well you're gonna shooting at the poor bastard with bullets that turn his internal organs into jelly anyway.

You don't have to be the one who sets the precedent Verfed.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
The US has a dirty little weapon nicknamed a 'blinder.' Drop adherence to a couple conventions and they could be mass produced right away.

It's a laser the size of a flashlight that you can tape to the side of a rifle barrel really quickly. It takes low amounts of easily-rechargable power. It will pop your retinas from 500 yards away if you look at it when its fired.

Do you have any documentation on this weapon? Is this a DARPA project? Aside from the technological issues of the physics package of such a weapon, how are you going to hit a retina at 500 yards?

I think Koka hit the nail on the head. If we start disrespecting the Muslim religion, then we disrepsect all Muslims, not just the bad ones. It would be akin to a Muslim army dropping aborted fetuses and upside crucifixes on rebel Christian factions. It would piss off too many people.

I also have a problem with this type of weapon.

It's designed to maim and mutilate, not kill, when a crowd of screaming jihad monkeys are waving AK-47's the last thing you want to is blind them and send them into screams of pain, they'll begin cutting down everything in range of the bullets.

A dirty weapon.

Ahh...but with my idea, you are only punishing the guilty.... Terrorists might think twice if their "sure thing" (martyrdom) was suddenly whisked away by such a burial.

The very idea is pretty ironic....using terror against the terrorists....

Fight fire with fire...

Originally posted by Nerdling
I also have a problem with this type of weapon.

It's designed to maim and mutilate, not kill, when a crowd of screaming jihad monkeys are waving AK-47's the last thing you want to is blind them and send them into screams of pain, they'll begin cutting down everything in range of the bullets.

A dirty weapon.

When the alternative is to open fire on them so they end up shooting the whole place to swiss cheese anyway...

War is hell, and even the best decisions aren't always 'good' decisions. An example would be if you have a group of POW's you're escorting from battle. They're slowing you down too much and you lack enough supplies to keep them fed. You have a choice- Either shoot them all now, or release them so they either die of exposure or reveal to the enemy your location and situation. Neither if those is a decision you want to make, but it's a decision you have to make.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by taibunsuu
The US has a dirty little weapon nicknamed a 'blinder.' Drop adherence to a couple conventions and they could be mass produced right away.

It's a laser the size of a flashlight that you can tape to the side of a rifle barrel really quickly. It takes low amounts of easily-rechargable power. It will pop your retinas from 500 yards away if you look at it when its fired.

Do you have any documentation on this weapon? Is this a DARPA project? Aside from the technological issues of the physics package of such a weapon, how are you going to hit a retina at 500 yards?

Though the United States has taken a leading role in halting landmine exports, it has blocked a proposed protocol governing a new generation of laser weapons that blind their victims. Not surprisingly, U.S. corporations are leaders in this technology.

"Laser technology, which realized significant advances through its application to ophthalmological surgery that can restore sight, has been field tested by the U.S. Army in laser rifles that blind their victims�often permanently. Large-scale manufacture and deployment of these Arms could be imminent."

How would you like to be blinded for demonstrating?

Believe me, If they have intentions of opening fire then they're going to do it, if you blind them then they're going to firing wildly into the area causing others to fire.

Plus, On an international level you'd be hung for this, its mutilation. Just because theres no stumps or bloody limbs it doesnt make it "clean".

Then again, when you're fighting for your own then mutilation and terrorism becomes acceptable. Brave American boys liberating Iraqi's by blinding them if they get too rowdy.

Funny how that one works.

This Chinese toy was FIELDED in 1994, which means the US can have them far better in 2004:

"Although most countries play down the power of their lasers to blind on the battlefield, China, for one, has made no pretense of this potential use of its 73-pound, battery-powered ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber." In fact, China has begun advertising and marketing the ZM-87 laser on the international market as a weapon against both soldiers and sensors. The target market for the Chinese ZM-87 laser weapon is the Third World, including so-called rogue states (e.g. North Korea and Pakistan). U.S. Army intelligence sources report that China North Industries Corporation, or Norinco, first displayed the ZM-87 in November 1994, and then again in March 1995, at an arms exhibition in the Philippines. At this exhibition, "China succeeded in crossing two thresholds: for the first time it offered a tactical laser weapon for overseas sale on the open market; and for the first time such a system�s primary function was overtly proclaimed as the causing of human eye damage."

Norinco�s specification sheet for the ZM-87 states that the effective distance of direct human eye injury is two to three kilometers, and the effective distance of human eye injury by adding a magnifying sighting telescope seven times normal strength is less than five kilometers. Norinco also indicates that the effective distance for flash blinding is ten kilometers, and that the ZM-87 can simultaneously transmit fifteen megawatt laser pulses at two different wavelengths. Although the Chinese system is not as portable as several of the American prototypes, its desired effect is the same: to injure or dizzy the eyes of an enemy combatant, in order to cause the enemy to lose combat ability or to suppress the enemy�s observation and sighting operations.

If they're in the hands of North Korea, that means there is a chance they could be used against US troops in the future.

Does that change your view of this use of this weapon?
Do you still think armies should utilize this?

[edit on 20-9-2004 by AceOfBase]