Ignorance in UFO debunking

Skeptics please don't get angry about the title—I am only talking about SOME debunking not all.


I re-watched and episode of 'UFO Hunters' called 'UFO dogfights'. I was so angry and frustrated after I watched this that I decided to make a thread about it, even if only to let out my own frustration about the incident.

Below is a link to the episode on Youtube.
www.youtube.com...

The first part of the episode talks about Paviz Jafari's UFO sighting over Tehran in 1976. At one point Jafari estimates the object jumped nearly 28 miles in a split second. The estimation is based on the distance from the object (which was determined by radar to be 27 miles from the plane) and the number of degrees the object jumped (which was ten degrees).

In other words, a UFO 27 miles away jumped ten degrees to Jafari's right, and according to Jafari it did several similar maneuvers.

Source: UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials go on the Record chapter nine

At around 18 minutes into the UFO Hunters episode the experiment starts. They attempt to prove the 'jumping' done by the UFO could have been made by any aircraft—even one flying only 300 miles per hour.

Here's the experiment:

They have two planes flying side by side next to each other, and one accelerates and turns as fast and hard as it can to the right, losing the second plane behind it. They seem to think this is evidence that any plane could easily duplicate the maneuvers the supposed UFO made, but this is completely false.

An object jumping ten degrees to someone's right when the object is right in front of the person is not difficult at all. You could even do it with your hand! Put your hand in front of your face and move it very quickly a short distance to the right. Does this mean that your hand just jumped 28 miles? Of course not! It depends on the distance the object 'jumping' is away from you.

In the UFO Hunters episode the planes are almost wingtip to wingtip when the experiment starts.
In the actual encounter, the UFO was very far away from the plane. 27 miles according to Jafari. What were the UFO Hunters trying to solve with that experiment?

The experiment itself was confusing to me and please forgive me if I am completely missing something.

I disagree.
UFO Hunters does not display ignorance. It displays idiocy.

Originally posted by Phage
I disagree.
UFO Hunters does not display ignorance. It displays idiocy.

Possibly both?

Either way, it was a terrible show.

sorry you already asked this question, i misread. but i agree why didn't they factor distance in. d=rt right? simple math can explain how any man made aircraft could not preform this maneuver without the pilot dying from g-forces

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Skeptics please don't get angry about the title—I am only talking about SOME debunking not all.


I re-watched and episode of 'UFO Hunters' called 'UFO dogfights'. I was so angry and frustrated after I watched this that I decided to make a thread about it, even if only to let out my own frustration about the incident.
snip

First, your disclaimer not withstanding, do not assume that all skeptics are debunkers. Some skeptics, such as myself, have successfully debunked erroneous claims and I've posted them here. Some skeptics can be hard-nosed such as Robert Sheaffer. But as I've stated, being a skeptic is normal and being a believer is abnormal since mental conditioning results in beliefs and allowing others to control your behavior, mental and physical, has to be abnormal.

The people that you see on "UFO Hunters" may be knowledgeable in their specific fields but when they become debunkers, anyone familiar with the subject in this case UFOs, is not going to use 100% logic, reason, and common sense as has been shown over and over. I've never been crazy about dramatizations of real events 'cause only a documentary could represent it better. For dramatizations, many factors have to be changed to fit assumed theories.

What's worse about the "UFO Hunters" is having to look at and listen to one of the most famous "nuts" in UFOlogy, Birnes. I wouldn't give him the time of day. It could have been worse, it could have been Stanton Friedman!

UFO hunters is merely there for entertainment only not finding truth....sort of like YouTube....you wont find anything of value on YT....UFO hunters is about as reliable as.....Ghost Adventures with that cheesy Zack...

...IMO of course...

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Agreed. how can we possibly believe that a show made solely to make money for a network will give truthful, objective, unbiased opinions on something that they are trying to generate revenue off of. that show is only rivaled in stupidity by the show monster quest

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Skeptics please don't get angry about the title—I am only talking about SOME debunking not all.


I re-watched and episode of 'UFO Hunters' called 'UFO dogfights'. I was so angry and frustrated after I watched this that I decided to make a thread about it, even if only to let out my own frustration about the incident.

Below is a link to the episode on Youtube.
www.youtube.com...

The first part of the episode talks about Paviz Jafari's UFO sighting over Tehran in 1976. At one point Jafari estimates the object jumped nearly 28 miles in a split second. The estimation is based on the distance from the object (which was determined by radar to be 27 miles from the plane) and the number of degrees the object jumped (which was ten degrees).

In other words, a UFO 27 miles away jumped ten degrees to Jafari's right, and according to Jafari it did several similar maneuvers.

Source: UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials go on the Record chapter nine

At around 18 minutes into the UFO Hunters episode the experiment starts. They attempt to prove the 'jumping' done by the UFO could have been made by any aircraft—even one flying only 300 miles per hour.

Here's the experiment:

They have two planes flying side by side next to each other, and one accelerates and turns as fast and hard as it can to the right, losing the second plane behind it. They seem to think this is evidence that any plane could easily duplicate the maneuvers the supposed UFO made, but this is completely false.

An object jumping ten degrees to someone's right when the object is right in front of the person is not difficult at all. You could even do it with your hand! Put your hand in front of your face and move it very quickly a short distance to the right. Does this mean that your hand just jumped 28 miles? Of course not! It depends on the distance the object 'jumping' is away from you.

In the UFO Hunters episode the planes are almost wingtip to wingtip when the experiment starts.
In the actual encounter, the UFO was very far away from the plane. 27 miles according to Jafari. What were the UFO Hunters trying to solve with that experiment?

The experiment itself was confusing to me and please forgive me if I am completely missing something.

edit on 2-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: made source bold so its easier to see

It was that exact episode that put me off the show. Seems a UFO incident is an excuse to go up in a stunt plane

I agree that any attempt at using a "recreation" to debunk a UFO sighting is faulty in it logic to begin with. Even if someone was to perfectly duplicate a description or photo/video, that doesn't mean it actually happened that way at the time. At most, it means maybe it could have, which is like saying anything could have happened.

Real, honest and useful debunking takes thought and effort. That doesn't always translate to good TV, though.

Originally posted by Bigfoot12714
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Agreed. how can we possibly believe that a show made solely to make money for a network will give truthful, objective, unbiased opinions on something that they are trying to generate revenue off of. that show is only rivaled in stupidity by the show monster quest

And let's not forget "FINDING BIGFOOT". With all of the episodes that have been presented you'd think that by now the odds would have been of the team coming up with some success. They hold their "town meetings" in which the local folk tell the team about their numerous local encounters, the team then goes out to the same areas and they scream their heads off in the woods trying to get replies from the elusive creatures and pretty soon we're going to be in season 100(!) and we'll still see the same ol' failed attempts.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by Bigfoot12714
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Agreed. how can we possibly believe that a show made solely to make money for a network will give truthful, objective, unbiased opinions on something that they are trying to generate revenue off of. that show is only rivaled in stupidity by the show monster quest

And let's not forget "FINDING BIGFOOT". With all of the episodes that have been presented you'd think that by now the odds would have been of the team coming up with some success. They hold their "town meetings" in which the local folk tell the team about their numerous local encounters, the team then goes out to the same areas and they scream their heads off in the woods trying to get replies from the elusive creatures and pretty soon we're going to be in season 100(!) and we'll still see the same ol' failed attempts.

My biggest problem with all these shows that are out to find "evidence," whether it be ghosts, bigfoot or what have you, spend a maximum of what TWO nights trying to find what they are looking for. how about a week in these so called "haunted locations?" why not a month? building evidence is extremely important and NONE of these people do that. they go to locations and tape for a night, hear some noises and leave. good work...

reply to post by Bigfoot12714


These programmes are a joke.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
UFO hunters is about as reliable as.....Ghost Adventures with that cheesy Zack...

My Mom watches Ghost Adventures and tells me she only watches it because she's hoping a ghost would choke that guy or beat his @ss.

@OP, don't take it to heart. There's plenty I'm sure who watched that episode and walked away with the same unfulfilled and cheated feeling that you have. Those who walked away thinking "that legit experiment proves it could have been a plane" are the ones lacking good judgement. I prefer seeing you here making a thread about how it sucks instead of a thread of how it proves something.