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Sheriff Joe's posse: 'Probable cause' Obama Birth Certificate a Fraud-now a Criminal Case!

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posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by juveous
The investigation is not irrelevant to me. I have my reasons for making it relevant, like for the fact that I just moved to Maricopa County.


I have no doubt you have your own personal reasons as to why this investigation is relevant, again this is a free country. Arpaio needs all the support he can get I suppose.


Its irrelevant because they did the investigation purely to sell a book. They signed on to author a book that would detail their findings 6 months ago.. They also started the investigation.... 6 months ago..

Gee safe to assume they may have altered some results to sell a book and make money???

For any investigation to be taken seriously it needs to be done by an independent source with nothing to gain.




posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous




It's not merely what I 'assume'. I fail to see how you can maintain the Hawaiian government's innocence in all this since they vouched for both birth certificates time and time again, and since people like you insist it's a fraud. I'd love to see you explain this away to me.
you asked me a question. I answered it plain. If birthers dont accept a hawaii voucher, then you could assume its because they think hawaiin officials are lying. What is to explain?


Who determines what is valid? Well we have the supreme court, we have representitives, we have constitutional guidelines towards the impeachment process. Birthers have exhausted all their options over this conspiracy theory of theirs, and yet they can't seem to convince anybody beyond their own ilk.

And i remember Arpaio stating where this would go, and whether the correct agency would take over or if it would be heard befor congress. So what is being done wrong here?


What do you mean by inconsistencies? I would assume by inconsistence you mean digital anomolies not found when you apply the same tests to other digital images of Hawaiian birth certificates? Did this posse conduct tests on other birth certificates? Did they even bother to make requests to Hawaiian authorities to give them templates of other birth certificates? I didn't see this in the conference.

You missed my entire point. The point was that because of so many different ways to test for why the document would behave a certain way, people will continue to find problems, because they are looking for them.



Obama doesn't have to do anything further, there is no requirement of him do so, it was never a requirement. The world won't always work your way, yet this is something birthers (including yourself here) can't seem to deal with. They didn't get the message in Georgia either. So you can stop telling me what you believe the whitehouse must or should do, you make the accusation, you've got your work cut out to present it to the masses, to the courts, to congress.


Yep i knew you would say he isnt required to. Missed that point too. The whitehouse should for their own sake
They could end this, but let it go on because the say they have better things to do. Crap excuse. All it takes is an announcement for anyone that wants verify it will be allowed on said date. It not only reinforces the president's willingness to deal with criticism, it would practically end the birther conspiracy. They need to swallow their pride, and get it over with, hell might even turn a few voters.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous




It's not merely what I 'assume'. I fail to see how you can maintain the Hawaiian government's innocence in all this since they vouched for both birth certificates time and time again, and since people like you insist it's a fraud. I'd love to see you explain this away to me.
you asked me a question. I answered it plain. If birthers dont accept a hawaii voucher, then you could assume its because they think hawaiin officials are lying. What is to explain?


Who determines what is valid? Well we have the supreme court, we have representitives, we have constitutional guidelines towards the impeachment process. Birthers have exhausted all their options over this conspiracy theory of theirs, and yet they can't seem to convince anybody beyond their own ilk.

And i remember Arpaio stating where this would go, and whether the correct agency would take over or if it would be heard befor congress. So what is being done wrong here?


What do you mean by inconsistencies? I would assume by inconsistence you mean digital anomolies not found when you apply the same tests to other digital images of Hawaiian birth certificates? Did this posse conduct tests on other birth certificates? Did they even bother to make requests to Hawaiian authorities to give them templates of other birth certificates? I didn't see this in the conference.

You missed my entire point. The point was that because of so many different ways to test for why the document would behave a certain way, people will continue to find problems, because they are looking for them.



Obama doesn't have to do anything further, there is no requirement of him do so, it was never a requirement. The world won't always work your way, yet this is something birthers (including yourself here) can't seem to deal with. They didn't get the message in Georgia either. So you can stop telling me what you believe the whitehouse must or should do, you make the accusation, you've got your work cut out to present it to the masses, to the courts, to congress.


Yep i knew you would say he isnt required to. Missed that point too. The whitehouse should for their own sake
They could end this, but let it go on because the say they have better things to do. Crap excuse. All it takes is an announcement for anyone that wants verify it will be allowed on said date. It not only reinforces the president's willingness to deal with criticism, it would practically end the birther conspiracy. They need to swallow their pride, and get it over with, hell might even turn a few voters.


i suggest some people do a search on ATS for this subject "Proof of a DNC Conspiracy to Elect an Ineligible Obama",Its from 2009 I don't know if its a hoax. But if you add that topic to this topic it's over for Obama if not a hoax. basically it would show that obama isn't constitutionally the president of all 50 states only one hawaii and the Nacy Peosi omitted certain documentation in every state except hawaii. please look it up



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by bknapple32
 


someone already addressed this. Speculating the motive is more useless than confronting the evidence itself. That wouldn't make it irrelevant anyway.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by bknapple32
 


someone already addressed this. Speculating the motive is more useless than confronting the evidence itself. That wouldn't make it irrelevant anyway.


You're right, someone planning on making a money on an investigation they are about to do has no bearing at all on the results of said investigation...



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
you asked me a question. I answered it plain. If birthers dont accept a hawaii voucher, then you could assume its because they think hawaiin officials are lying.


Again, why do I have to assume? Through this investigation, Arpaio, his Posse, and yourself here concluded that the Obama's Hawaiian long form birth certificate was beyond a doubt a fraud, Hawaiian health officials vouched for it's authenticity on numerous occasions.

I invite you to explain your position away so as to make the Hawaiian health department and both the current and previous directors innocent considering your position on the birth certificates authenticity.



And i remember Arpaio stating where this would go, and whether the correct agency would take over or if it would be heard befor congress.


Yes, but Arpaio and his posse already concluded that the long form birth certificate was fraudulent, so they aren't really seeking an investigation anymore now are they? Just anything that would further their positions.

If Arpaio successfully gets his findings and his conclusions through to the appropriate channels, and eventually congress, following the guidelines of the constitution, then more power to him. His got plenty of birthers behind him and he has plenty of time.



You missed my entire point. The point was that because of so many different ways to test for why the document would behave a certain way,


Again, you're finding anomalies in your tests of one document, and yet you conclude it's fraud without investigating as to whether these anomolies appear on other documents of the same type. This isn't true investigating to me sorry. But if you think otherwise, it's really pointless to go on arguing with you if this is your logic.



Yep i knew you would say he isnt required to. Missed that point too. The whitehouse should for their own sake


Yes, you think the whitehouse should. I didn't miss your point.


They could end this,


Birthers stated that this was suppose to end with the release of the short form and following, the long form birth certificate. It was pritty much apparent to me and many others that this claim was a lie then, and it is a lie now. You don't have to tell me what you think should be done, you've still got a case to prove in the courts, to the masses and to congress.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by bknapple32
 


someone already addressed this. Speculating the motive is more useless than confronting the evidence itself. That wouldn't make it irrelevant anyway.


You're right, someone planning on making a money on an investigation thenicy are about to do has no bearing at all on the results of said investigation...

Nice try twisting words there
I said it was more useless than confronting evidence. A statement of contrast. Motive alone does not falsify evidence, but it can suggest it.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by juveous
The investigation is not irrelevant to me. I have my reasons for making it relevant, like for the fact that I just moved to Maricopa County.


I have no doubt you have your own personal reasons as to why this investigation is relevant, again this is a free country. Arpaio needs all the support he can get I suppose.


Its irrelevant because they did the investigation purely to sell a book. They signed on to author a book that would detail their findings 6 months ago.. They also started the investigation.... 6 months ago..

Gee safe to assume they may have altered some results to sell a book and make money???

For any investigation to be taken seriously it needs to be done by an independent source with nothing to gain.


There's a review of the ebook where it was found that most of the literature in there was cut and paste from older World Net Daily articles:
www.scribd.com...

This is only chapter one thus far, but check it out, I trust we'll find more old work cut and pasted. Corsi really knows how the reap in that money, and he's got maricopa county's name to help him with this. Zullo, the lead investigator, is also reaping the benefits.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by bknapple32
 


someone already addressed this. Speculating the motive is more useless than confronting the evidence itself. That wouldn't make it irrelevant anyway.


You're right, someone planning on making a money on an investigation thenicy are about to do has no bearing at all on the results of said investigation...

Nice try twisting words there
I said it was more useless than confronting evidence. A statement of contrast. Motive alone does not falsify evidence, but it can suggest it.


Fair enough, what do you think about it? Do you think the fact they planned this ebook to contain the results, before the results were found, implies something as much as I do? Keep in mind, the lead in the investigation (and co author) stated he set out to prove the BC was real, but was so saddened to find the bc was fake. Really? Then why plan the ebook with a tea party co author before the results? To me it seems obvious their results would show the bc was a fraud.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous


Again, why do I have to assume? Through this investigation, Arpaio, his Posse, and yourself here concluded that the Obama's Hawaiian long form birth certificate was beyond a doubt a fraud, Hawaiian health officials vouched for it's authenticity on numerous occasions.

you have to assume because that is literally what you are doing. I could swap that word out with infer, maybe conclude, point is they didn't say it they were lying. Re-read this if you have to


I invite you to explain your position away so as to make the Hawaiian health department and both the current and previous directors innocent considering your position on the birth certificates authenticity.

What do you want me to say? They would like to examine the Hawaiian BC, not take their word for it, if I understand correctly. My position is to let them. Why do want me to state my level of doubt ob percentage form or somehing?


Again, you're finding anomalies in your tests of one document, and yet you conclude it's fraud without investigating as to whether these anomolies appear on other documents of the same type. This isn't true investigating to me sorry. But if you think otherwise, it's really pointless to go on arguing with you if this is your logic.
no I actually agree with you, their method of control should have been a Hawaiian BC from the start, there’s was about testing the random layers that should have been seen, but were not. Its about the complexity of the image, because they were comparing a Pdf with that.

Yes, you think the whitehouse should. I didn't miss your point

ya did miss it. Check Context. It was a about what I suggested, you took it as what was required.


They could end this,


,Birthers stated that this was suppose to end with the release of the short form and following, the long form birth certificate. It was pritty much apparent to me and many others that this claim was a lie then, and it is a lie now. You don't have to tell me what you think should be done, you've still got a case to prove in the courts, to the masses and to congress.

Alright, I'm just saying if you let them investiagte, what could they honestly say that wouldn't result in them shutting up from being satisfied



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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ELreply to post by bknapple32
 


Its definetely suspicious. It means they expected to find something, so its impossible to really state you were shocked at findings. Unless they were hoping to find something, but not expectingit. Most of the book is the pressconference, so it could have initially been something else, and then just used publishing contract to spread word of coverage



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by juveous
I could swap that word out with infer, maybe conclude, point is they didn't say it they were lying. Re-read this if you have to


So from what I take from that response, you cannot explain to me how the Hawaiian health department with both the previous and current directors, whom vouched for the authenticity of both birth certificates, could be innocent in all this?

Did the whitehouse slip the fraudulent birth certificate to trick them into authenticating it? Did they release the real birth certificate but it was secretly swapped with a fake one without any Hawaiian official noticing?

The truth is, you know that your position on the long form birth certificate directly conflicts with that of Hawaii, you can't bring yourself to say it you know because it would stretch your position alittle too far for comfort. Tell me that I'm wrong now, come on, give me your theory on why Hawaii could be innocent in all this since you're not accusing them of anything.



What do you want me to say? They would like to examine the Hawaiian BC, not take their word for it, if I understand correctly. My position is to let them.


I'm trying to see whether you find this logical. Since they without a doubt concluded the birth certificate was fraudulent, why would they want to examine the actual BC? These are the investigators you have put your complete trust on concerning this issue.


no I actually agree with you,


No you don't. From this posse's investigation you have already concluded the long form was fraudulent.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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These videos about his photographs are distrubing...



I know a real good Con Artist can be a true Artist who can manuplate and decieve others into believing whatever they want others to believe. I will give Team Obama credit they've done one hellva job!



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by relocator
 


You need to get a better BS meter as that video is complete nonsense!

So much of that analysis is complete nonsense.

But sure, you don't care do you?

Just pushing more propaganda around...

Turns out the guy what made that is probably mentally ill:

barackryphal.blogspot.com...

read to the end...

He certainly is NOT a expert in imaging, and apparently even the freepers have turned on him for posting such insane #...

That doesn't stop Orly the Russian dentist from using him though... big surprise...

The other thing you should note about this con artist Ronald Pollard/Polarik is that he's repeatedly lied about his identity and his credentials...

Maybe check the source of something before you believe it; DEFINITELY check it before you post it online...

Finally, here a link to a REAL computer expert taking apart Ronald ("Ron") Pollard/Polarik's claims:

www.hackerfactor.com.../archives/235-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis-Part-II.html

Lot's more debunking here:

barackryphal.blogspot.com...
edit on 6-3-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Source

AP Exclusive: Obama's transgender ex-nanny 'proud'





JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- Once, long ago, Evie looked after "Barry" Obama, the kid who would grow up to become the world's most powerful man. Now, his transgender former nanny has given up her tight, flowery dresses, her brocade vest and her bras, and is living in fear on Indonesia's streets.


Okay I'm trying to validate your claim the youtube video about his photo's is BS and I find this...



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by relocator
 


So...?

Does that in any way back up your original claims??

And what does it even have to do with him?

His nanny?

Clutching at straws...

If you can still find Ron's "anonymous declaration" online you'll find him lying about no one, but TWO college degrees....

But sure Obama is bad because of some unrelated crap about his nanny...



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


Don't get your panties all in a wad... It was just something I found...lol

I don't like the guy that made the video...I just thought it was interesting to explore. Hell we know the BC is fake...Right. Why not the photographs? Geez...

Your source states he won't even try to debunk the guy because he believes the guy is untrustworthy. So I back to square one.



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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And the plot thickens....


Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by xuenchen
Breitbart has a followup article.

Important Topic Updates
In a follow up to yesterday's article, Breitbart writer Ben Shapiro is claiming that a tape exists of that 1998 production of The Love Song of Saul Alinsky in Chicago.

Obama was an Illinois State Senator at the time and he participated in a discussion panel after a performance of the play.

However, the "only" copy is in the possession of someone who will not release it !!

They must be hiding something ?

If Obama is so proud of his record, then why suppress historical materials


Obama Ally Won't Release Alinsky Tape







edit on Mar-06-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)


I just caught this story this morning and its yet another head scratching moment from those covering for the big O. Clearly the discussion after the play will shed some real light on Obama's ideology and his core set of values. The woman even said that the Play Poster was never meant to be public.

I can't wait for the Obama library to open after his reign comes to an end. It will be devoid of all materials prior to 2008.

By the time Obama got to Chicago he had clearly become the man that he is today. Same radical ideals and affiliations today. I just wonder how many fires the Obama Bunch can put out at one time.

This whole Alinsky Naivete is getting old. Funny, the lengths that have been taken to keep all things Alinsky under wraps. Obama wrote two books and never covered any of his time as a student of the Alinsky Method or his work as a professor of it. Oh well... The truth hurts....


Here: www.abovetopsecret.com... extra DIV



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Ok guys...I've found something...

[sarcasm]
"Sheriff" Joe Arpaio,hmmm..... Arpaio ...now that sure sounds foreign to me...
Is he even American?
Is he even eligable to be a "sherrif", was he even born in the USA????
I feel as if he's Mexican or something, we should demand his Birth certificate![/sarcasm]

Damn, playing that kind of game is so ridiculously easy!



posted on Mar, 6 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by relocator
 


His BC is NOT fake... that's just mre political propaganda.

Multiple ACTUAL document exerts and the State of Hawaii and the State of Georgia have said as much.

On the OTHER hand, the ONLY people that claim it's fake are people like yourself that gt your info off of YouTube and propagandists who have a political goal in mind.

This is why this is so annoying, all of this debunked crap gets pushed around on forums by people, like yourself, that don't even BOTHER to see if it's true and if the source is reputable.

Well, guess what... all the sources for the birther movement are JUST AS SKETCHY as this guy.

You could tell in about 5 mins that this guy, your "source" was bogus, so why is Orly Taitz putting him on the stand?

Hmmmm..?

She must know he's a liar and doesn't have proper credentials? Yes?I mean if you could figure that out, surely the birther queen can? And if she can and still puts him on the stand as an expert, then she's lying in court, yes?

And if she CAN'T? Then why would ANYONE trust her?

And she's the mouthpiece of the ENTIRE movement.

Think about that.

No, really. Think about that.

Put aside, for 2 mins, your feelings about Obama, the feelings, and engage your brain. Ask why Orly is putting that guy on the stand in a court as a document expert.

Then remember what the judge said, in Georgia... None of her witnesses were credible... Including this guy...

Because he's not credible is he?

So....

Why is she lying?

Why is the entire right-wing media pushing her lies around?

Why did Sheriff Joe write a book with the guy behind the Kerry Swift Boat attacks?

Why is Fox News publicising that?

Why in WND so intent on pushing this?

WND is owned by Joseph Farah: en.wikipedia.org...

Read that.

And Farah is buddies with Richard Mellon Scaife:

en.wikipedia.org...

Who funded this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Go do some reading.... ask if these people are who you should be trusting for "truth" about Obama.

Just use a tiny bit google and stop trusting your beliefs to your gut and your biases.

You don't have to agree with Obama (I don't on many many things), but don't believe lies and propaganda.



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