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Time travel, is there anything written in stone?

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posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Let us just say that in the future time travel will be possible. Scientist have discovered that the "grandson kill grandpa" problem is possible in a parralel universe and that there are no conflicts with the laws of nature.

With my limited brainpower I have difficulty to follow the following thought experiment. Maybe it is because I tried to find a difference to hard that I miss what is right in front of me.

There it goes..

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and did see what certain stock would do...and return?

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and influenced certain stock and know what it will do....and return?


Is there a difference..?

Did I not change in the second trip and created a new time-line in an other universe? And what consequence will this have for my future prediction in my own universe?




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by zatara


Let us just say that in the future time travel will be possible. Scientist have discovered that the "grandson kill grandpa" problem is possible in a parralel universe and that there are no conflicts with the laws of nature.

With my limited brainpower I have difficulty to follow the following thought experiment. Maybe it is because I tried to find a difference to hard that I miss what is right in front of me.

There it goes..

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and did see what certain stock would do...and return?

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and influenced certain stock and know what it will do....and return?


Is there a difference..?

Did I not change in the second trip and created a new time-line in an other universe? And what consequence will this have for my future prediction in my own universe?








If you shifted into the future of a parallel universe and returned to your own there would only be a chance you could get rich because you had seen events of that universe and not your own. There is no reason events of a similar universe would turn out the same in yours.

If you were hopping to the future of different universes then you would only be seeing potential futures your own universe might take. Depending on the similarities of said universe to your own.

You would need Al and Ziggy along for the ride to help work out all those probabilities

edit on 1/3/2012 by Grifter81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


If you run physics equations with the time variable inverted, things do not necessarily return to the original conditions.

I.E: if you release some gas into space it will disperse. If you run the equations exactly the same but with time running negatively, the gas still disperses.

The Genie won't go back into the bottle.

Messing with time may not have the effect that many imagine.

Changing the past merely creates an alternate future possibility/possibilities. The original timeline exists still as an alternate universe.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Indeed. There is no accounting for your own universe when you visit another one.

Here's a twist: you visit another universe via time travel in order to win the lottery. In the process, you are discovered by CIA, and in the eventual gun fight as you return to your portal, you kill the POTUS.

Meanwhile, at the same time, the "you" from that universe, having been mistaken for the original "you" (you) travels to YOUR universe via time travel, finds that you're not there, kills your family, and returns at the same time you return to your own world.

Your family is dead, and the other you is being hunted by the FBI. I could write more, but...well, there's really no need. Suffice it to say that either one or both of you end up dead and/or stranded in a universe that isn't your own.

See how this happens?
edit on CThursdaypm535303f03America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
Indeed. There is no accounting for your own universe when you visit another one.

Here's a twist: you visit another universe via time travel in order to win the lottery. In the process, you are discovered by CIA, and in the eventual gun fight as you return to your portal, you kill the POTUS.

Meanwhile, at the same time, the "you" from that universe, having been mistaken for the original "you" (you) travels to YOUR universe via time travel, finds that you're not there, kills your family, and returns at the same time you return to your own world.

Your family is dead, and the other you is being hunted by the FBI. I could write more, but...well, there's really no need. Suffice it to say that either one or both of you end up dead and/or stranded in a universe that isn't your own.

See how this happens?
edit on CThursdaypm535303f03America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



That'd actually make a very good premise for a novel.


Wayne...



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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I tried to think about the same thing only going back in time to give myself info, I had to stop after i realized that in order for that to happen I would throw myself in a loop because whenever I got the that point in the future I would always have to go back in time to give myself the information. How could i possibly move forward from that? Then i thought about the fact that it would be impossible if you believe that a change in the timeline just causes a branch off of the original timeline. Then like suggested above the multiple universe thing, my only problem with that one is does going forward or back in time necessarily equate to crossing into another universe?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by N3kr0m4nc3r
 


If you give yourself information in the past your past self will act upon that information which will create a fork in the road. Your original timeline (where you didn't go back) will still exist but there will now be another divergent timeline/universe where you gave your past self the information and 'he' acted upon it.

The question is, when you go back to the future (to coin a phrase
) do you return to your original timeline, or the divergent one?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Grifter81
 


In the first probabillity I travelled in the same universe to see what the stock will do. Or is that not possible, will you always travel into an other universe when time-traveling?

With other words, is it impossible to timetravel in your own universe, no matter what you do?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by zatara
 


If you go to the future and then come back to the past with your information then simply acting on that information will diverge the time line. Ie you get rich where you wouldnt have.

Your original time line would still have to exist to avoid paradox, because you would still have to go to the future to look at stock as it was in the original timeline in order to get rich.
edit on 1/3/2012 by Grifter81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Grifter81
reply to post by zatara
 


If you go to the future and then come back to the past with your information then simply acting on that information will diverge the time line. Ie you get rich where you wouldnt have.

Your original time line would still have to exist to avoid paradox, because you would still have to go to the future to look at stock as it was in the original timeline in order to get rich.
edit on 1/3/2012 by Grifter81 because: (no reason given)


Yeah, right...then that is what I will do...



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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I don't know. I'm currently reading SlaughterHouse Five, and find the idea within Billy's being "unstuck in time" and the aliens view of time as a collection of moments, all existing forever.... in each moment we are trapped like bugs in amber. If you were to travel back in time, you have already done it, in a sense- that wouldn't change the present, because the present already includes your trip.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by zatara
 


Take it from me, time-travel will never be practical, lets pretend it will be possible, it would require a type 3 civilization, using the power of an entire galaxy, it would require a machine the size of a galaxy to harness the energy of every sun of an entire galaxy, 400 billion suns, to open a pin-hole in space-time, where that pin-hole 'worm-hole' goes is anyones guess. We are type 0, in a hundred years we *may* become type 1, if we don't blow ourselves up, possibly a thousand years before type 2, possibly a million years before type 3, etc, etc, etc.

Pretending you are in a comic-book universe where time-travel is easy, cheap, and practical, you get the stock quotes for tomorrow, their the stock quotes of a parallel universe, you invest and you lose everything, nice try.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by Razimus
reply to post by zatara
 


Take it from me, time-travel will never be practical, lets pretend it will be possible, it would require a type 3 civilization, using the power of an entire galaxy, it would require a machine the size of a galaxy to harness the energy of every sun of an entire galaxy, 400 billion suns, to open a pin-hole in space-time, where that pin-hole 'worm-hole' goes is anyones guess. We are type 0, in a hundred years we *may* become type 1, if we don't blow ourselves up, possibly a thousand years before type 2, possibly a million years before type 3, etc, etc, etc.

Pretending you are in a comic-book universe where time-travel is easy, cheap, and practical, you get the stock quotes for tomorrow, their the stock quotes of a parallel universe, you invest and you lose everything, nice try.


You are right if you reason with what you,... or we can comprehand of the reaility we live in today. Many people forget that we have yet to discover what matter and energy really is. If you say that t-travel will need the energy of the sun or an entire galaxy you are probably right. But, maybe there are more ways to Rome, ways we haven't discovered yet. There are serious theories about using the properties of gravity in order to communicate with paralel universes...if they exist.

Maybe if we come to understand what gravity is a whole new box of applications will open and will time-travel be one of them....just saying. Conventional solutions can get a job done but new scientific or technological knowledge can get the same job done with less effort or energy.



posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by zatara


Let us just say that in the future time travel will be possible. Scientist have discovered that the "grandson kill grandpa" problem is possible in a parralel universe and that there are no conflicts with the laws of nature.

With my limited brainpower I have difficulty to follow the following thought experiment. Maybe it is because I tried to find a difference to hard that I miss what is right in front of me.

There it goes..

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and did see what certain stock would do...and return?

Would I be able to make profit on wallstreet because I travelled to the future and influenced certain stock and know what it will do....and return?


Is there a difference..?

Did I not change in the second trip and created a new time-line in an other universe? And what consequence will this have for my future prediction in my own universe?










good to see someone debunking the debunkers of time travel hypothesis with multiverse theory (which is greatly becoming the status quo in quantum mechanics) ... see "fabric of the cosmos" on youtube

the " you can't kill your grandfather" theory only applies to ONE universe... not the infinite universes model...

but you have to factor in that multiverses only occur according to probabilities of natural phenomena and preferential choices in free will.... ie: "anything that would likely happen.. will happen in these multiverses" .. not "anything and all that can occur would occur"

i think the "timeline maps" in the books that the men in hats have in the movie "the correction bureau" is a good example of this.


another thing to note is the role conciousness plays in the creation of reality here... where unconcious matter would follow the exact same mathematical path of motion and extrapolatated unfolding change that it would under the basic laws of physics .. guided by cause and effect... ie: the first que ball hit.. causes the rest of the balls to knock out in the same exact fashion...

what would make universes different.. would be the preferential conscious decisions made by certain sentient beings .. acting on along linear time.. but MORESO when able to reflect on the concepts of past an future and desire.. and being able to choose separate outcomes and guide their will this way.. thus unfolding in time towards much larger different outcomes... ie: a founder of a city decides to build at set location and name the city after the current sweetheart of his, OR he founds the city at a different set location and names it after a different sweetheart (mistress) ... because of a tiny decision of how he felt that day towards one of the girls... extrapolate 200 years and the bustling metropolis based off of his location to found it and name of city go off on completely different paths of probabilities and possibilities with different architecture, people, and names...
edit on 3/3/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)



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