Pictures requested by popular demand of planes in Groom and the NTS

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


Some were. Some weren't.

reply to post by boomer135


Do you know somebody which was called 'wolfbane'? He wrote interesting posts but I think he was fail. He told testimony which (of course if it could be true) was forbidden. On DLR forum archive there are his posts...

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


I've never heard of him.

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


I know of the character. This is all from memory, i.e. I'm not going to read all his posts again. Much of what he said was nonsense or not verifiable. However he is correct that MIT flies to Groom Lake. Well sort of.....

At one time, MIT had the lock on radar, and the misison was eventually transfered to Lincoln Labs. [The original research was done under cover at the "Radiation Laboratory", a name picked to be not so friendly. This was during WWII.] Lincoln Labs is linked up with Hanscom AFB. Today Florida is the place for USAF RF, but there is some residual work still done at Hanscom. At Hanscom, they have two test aircraft. Paul Revere (I forget the tail number, but you can google it) and N105TB. Now N105TB is the plane that Wolfbane refers to as the MIT plane at Groom Lake. Nobody has verified his claim that MIT has a hangar at Groom. [Or Lincoln Labs or Hanscom for that matter.] But N105TB has often been spotted around the Nellis range and playing with planes from Groom Lake. N105TB is not exclusive to Groom Lake. It has been photographed at Point Mugu. The plane is not a secret, so it doesn't need Groom Lake for security.

Hanscom is forever on the BRAC list.
Hanscom BRAC

In the days when McCarran had Passur plane tracking, N105TB could be spotting entering the Nellis airspace.

reply to post by gariac


When I was begginer at Area 51 terminology I've though that he is right and everything what he told is true. But after some time I'm pretty sure that his theorems are his imagine and he was writting everything what he wrotes what he though. Maybe some of his testimony are true but it's only coincidence. Also interesting is that why he suddenly disappeared from the scene...

reply to post by gariac


I couldn't find his posts in the search function....surprise surprise.

BTW Do NOT search for "MIT Groom Lake hanger", unless you like the "liar"

reply to post by boomer135


Here are some of his posts:
www.dreamlandresort.com...
www.dreamlandresort.com...

Sighting made by three Swiss hikers(www.dreamlandresort.com...) is not confirm, but after I've contacted with one of the best known Black Projects interceptor I believe Meinrad Eberle's sighting. Boomer, did you ever heard about that sighting before? If so, guess what kind of plane it was?

Originally posted by GroomLakePolishFAN
reply to post by boomer135

 

Here are some of his posts:
www.dreamlandresort.com...
www.dreamlandresort.com...

Sighting made by three Swiss hikers(www.dreamlandresort.com...) is not confirm, but after I've contacted with one of the best known Black Projects interceptor I believe Meinrad Eberle's sighting. Boomer, did you ever heard about that sighting before? If so, guess what kind of plane it was?

Yeah im familiar with the sighting. The only problem I see is that Fastmover could mean any aircraft capable of high speed, not necessarily an "aurora" type aircraft. It could have been an F-22 and they fudged the entire story. Why would they fly the aircraft they described knowing that the team was on Tikaboo and watching?

That being said, I tend to believe the story because of the things i've seen. It's possible that they flew the jet knowing that someone was there. I can't say what type of aircraft it was or wasn't though.

Hey Boomer,

Just a quick question, do you know if they give you a NDA specifically saying whether or not you've worked at groom lake or not?

Cheers

Originally posted by Stealthbomber
Hey Boomer,

Just a quick question, do you know if they give you a NDA specifically saying whether or not you've worked at groom lake or not?

Cheers

I dont know cause I never worked there. We flew out of Edwards mostly. I do remember that NDA's were pretty standard, yet I don't ever remember seeing a specific base or area on the forms. I think it would be kind of dumb on the part of the government to have that kind of documentation around somewhere that may land in the wrong hands and be published. but i'm not sure what kind of language would be on an NDA for the groom workers.

But now that you bring that up, might be a cool way to see what the government says about naming the base. Perhaps they still use "an operating facility near the groom dry lake bed" or something.

So, going further, if you sign an NDA that is Top Secret, you shouldn't be able to tell someone that you even signed a Top Secret document then right? Imagine sitting in military court....

Prosecutor: "Is this the NDA you signed while working here?"
You: "Thats classified, I could tell you, but Id have to kill you"

Prosecutor: "Isn't it true that you told your friends about something you saw after signing this Top Secret Non-Disclosure?"
You: "What Top Secret NDA?"

Prosecutor gets mad and points: "THIS ONE SMART ASS!"
You: "I don't know, its classified Top Secret"

CASE DISMISSED!!

reply to post by boomer135


Sorry I should have worded it better, I meant if you've ever been to the facility. I just sort of assumed you went there because you had a pic on finals for it

Regarding naming the base they might just threaten people instead of making them sign something, it would probably have the same effect

Thanks for explaining that to me

Originally posted by Stealthbomber
reply to post by boomer135

 

Sorry I should have worded it better, I meant if you've ever been to the facility. I just sort of assumed you went there because you had a pic on finals for it

Regarding naming the base they might just threaten people instead of making them sign something, it would probably have the same effect

Thanks for explaining that to me

My crew flew into groom for a SCI briefing on a particular jet I was refueling. It was a first actual offload to said jet ever. So it was pretty cool. An NDA was signed of course, but I don't recall it saying Groom or Area 51 on it. Now at the time I was doing this cool stuff, I was nowhere near being a member of ATS or even thinking about how special it was to refuel the jet. So looking back it was a blast, and I wish I took more pics.

The pictures that you have got are awesome anyway! will you be allowed to share the pics once said jet gets declassified? If it ever actually does.

Yeah im familiar with the sighting. The only problem I see is that Fastmover could mean any aircraft capable of high speed, not necessarily an "aurora" type aircraft. It could have been an F-22 and they fudged the entire story. Why would they fly the aircraft they described knowing that the team was on Tikaboo and watching?

That being said, I tend to believe the story because of the things i've seen. It's possible that they flew the jet knowing that someone was there. I can't say what type of aircraft it was or wasn't though.

Probably Groom know that they were there gauging by fact of having bonfire on the peak at night before sighting. But interesting is that after take off this "fastmover" at the base there was no any other movements even Janets didn't appear that day...but Boomer I think that you expect what aircraft it could be so can you tell if this aircraft resident at Groom? I don't asking for any specific of aircraft but only a fact of where this "fastmover" based.

Originally posted by GroomLakePolishFAN
reply to post by boomer135

 

Here are some of his posts:
www.dreamlandresort.com...
www.dreamlandresort.com...

Sighting made by three Swiss hikers(www.dreamlandresort.com...) is not confirm, but after I've contacted with one of the best known Black Projects interceptor I believe Meinrad Eberle's sighting. Boomer, did you ever heard about that sighting before? If so, guess what kind of plane it was?

If only they had a camera with them. Oh wait, they did. ;-)

Now lets do a reality check here. Take a real project like "Bird of Prey." Patches? Check! Sightings...well no. Accurate leaks regarding the project....uh not even close. Gee, it seems those Groom boys and girls can keep a project out of the eye of visitors to the range. This includes people who have been there multiple times. But alas, the Swiss show up one day and the base brings out the saucers. Oh wait, make that the Aurora. Proof? Well darn, no photography. But we do have a recording of a fast mover. Then again, who doesn't have a recording of a fast mover. What flies at Groom Lake? Large cargo (Janet 737), small cargo (Beech Janet), and fast movers. Fast movers can be regular jets for proficiency training, or foreign assets like the SU-27 that has been photographed at the base.

Ok, so name another known project that never got spotted? No problemo. How about the Pole Cat. Hey, it was photographed by Lockheed in the daylight. I guess the crack swiss spotters were busy poking holes in cheese and missed the Pole Cat.

Name me another! Sure, how about the RQ-170 Sentinel. The USAF announced the new UAV squad at the TTR. Mind you, this is a base where you can just drive and snoop. No hikes from hell. Nobody got a shot of it. It was never spotted until it was deployed in theater.

Does Groom fly aircraft in the daylight? Yep. Do they know you are on TIkaboo? If they don't, heads should roll. In fact TIkaboo was a viewing location before they stole the other spots like Freedom Ridge and White Sides. If you read Tom Mahood's "first Tikaboo", they got to the peak and found a small rock wall set up as a wind deflector. There was a bench using timers from perhaps the USGS crew. [Source of the wood is unknown.] So yes, the base has probably known about TIkaboo Peak before Mahood and associates went to the top.

So 15 years pass and this story still isn't confirmed. Kind of remind you of he who shall not be named, except 25 years have passed and still no confirmation of his story.

The Swiss Mountain Bat story is link bait.

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN

But interesting is that after take off this "fastmover" at the base there was no any other movements even Janets didn't appear that day.

I reread that pile of horse droppings and they never said no Janets were flown that day. I also did a search for Janet and didn't find it. The cheese dudes just never reported Janet flights.

Janets 737s fly Monday through Friday unless it is a federal holiday. They can fly other days as well.

Generally the non-Janet aircraft don't start flying until 9AM. They don't want to start a test with all those Janet flights I suppose.

reply to post by gariac


You are right of fact that he never told anything about Janet flight but it's only in the net. In Aircraft Illustrated magazine there were six episodes called "Secrets of Area 51" from March to August of 2000 year. I'm having almost every except August one. When you read April issue there is interview with SMB. He told us that one of Janet 737s landed at Runway 32 sometime before "fastmover" take off. In March episode there is photo of this Janet when it taxied along Runway 32. On this picture you can also see Hangar 23 doors open.

On this page is exactly March episode from AI "Secrets of Area 51":
www.webbfeatproductions.com...

reply to post by GroomLakePolishFAN


I have made a directory on my PC for the Swiss team. I call it swiss_alpha_hotel or something like that. None of the DLR photos have exif on them. Then again, who cares since it is just photos of the wankers.

The magazine is basically more of the same garbage. Our cheese dudes are great at taking photos of themselves. Too bad they didn't photograph the secret aircraft.

Let's dissect the transcribed radio chatter. The article talks about aircraft under military control. Uh, if you are being handled by Nellis control, they you are under military control. So really what the article should have indicated is when aircraft are under control of Groom Lake.

Now once you being handled by Groom Lake, there are two services: control and tower. Control is like normal ATC approach/departure and tower is self explanatory. But when Groom is handling traffic, they do try to make the comms somewhat cryptic. Thus when the controller says "same type of aircraft", it doesn't mean the plane is classified. You can be in a 737 and the "same type of aircraft" is heading towards you.

Our crack team of investigators put Red Flag / Weapons School frequencies and Tonopah Test Range frequencies on the scanner. Really really really stupid. You can miss Groom chatter if you put extraneous frequencies on the recording. So yes, Silver Bow means the TTR. When they mention "bullseye", that is weapons school or Red Flag. [Rather than state exactly where a plane is in lat/lon, during warfare the players use a "bullseye" for reference. That is, all aircraft have a bearing range altitude relative to the bullseye.]

Note that "control" and "tower" have both VHF and UHF frequencies. Groom ATC generally simulcasts VHF and UHF for safety, that is, they want all players to have situational awareness. But ATC can just talk on the UHF frequency if they want. They also have multiple transmitter sites that they can switch on the fly. Now we don't know if the cheese dudes had the UHF frequencies in the scanner. That combined with the stupidity of monitoring frequencies not related to Groom Lake makes it easy for some bits of the conversation to be missing. So this paragraph or two about tower instructions being incomplete is pretty much irrelevant.

The scan is so bad I can't tell much about the base photographs. However open hangar doors are not a big deal. When I photographed the F117 at Groom, they had opened the hangar doors.
Open hangar doors on this page
Unlike the cheese posse, I actually took photographs of base and planes. What a novel idea!

You might want to listen to some base scanner recordings to see for yourself that there is nothing weird about the tower saying "the winds are calm".
Janet audio

After nearly a decade and a half, I an quite confident Swiss Mountain Bat didn't see anything, but did enjoy getting their photos in the press.

Originally posted by Stealthbomber
The pictures that you have got are awesome anyway!

will you be allowed to share the pics once said jet gets declassified? If it ever actually does.

That particular jet I don't have pics of but I'm in a couple pics locked up somewhere. Whether they release them or not is up to the government I guess. The problem is that if they are released and I go "hey thats me!" then everyone will know my true identity (not that's its hard to find) other than the three or four people on this site who know who I am.

Now some of the pics that I do have are pretty breath-taking if you ask me. Only two people on this site have seen them (well three since my fiancee joined up). I know it isn't going to explode the entire "black world" scene if and when they declassify these two jets I have pics of, and i post pics, but really who can say they even have a close up (50 feet away) pic of a classified aircraft in their posession?

(And the only reason I showed these two people is because I was posting alot of stuff without backing it up. Credibility is everything on a website. And I know that those two individuals wouldn't go run off with a story about them.)

After all,

reply to post by gariac


I have respect for your research. And I like your website too. I was listening radio transmissions between Groom and Janets several times.

- - -

Boomer, did you ever was on Tikaboo?