Schwan's delivery trucks run off of propane

I heard around town that Marvin Schwan owned the patent on the engine. I think Schwan's trucks are the only vehicles on the planet that run off of propane. I'm not sure why the patent wasn't ever sold but Im guessing he was not allowed to, but who knows. Schwan's was founded in my hometown and around there, not everybody knows this little fact. Figured Id share this with ATS


www.theautochannel.com...

reply to post by MNnativeamer


I don't really think this is anything new. en.wikipedia.org...

In Australia we have LPG (liquid propane gas) pumps right along side the regular fuel pumps. It's a lot cheaper too.

reply to post by MNnativeamer

reply to post by MNnativeamer


Hank Hill would be proud!

my buddy had a old suburban that ran off of propane he bought it like that but i dont know if it was made in the factory running off propane

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Whats the MPG like on propane? It's cheaper, but is it cheaper per mile/kilometer?

reply to post by MNnativeamer


My car runs on CNG (compressed natural gas), it's really clean and cheap but it takes forever to fill the tank up (about 12 hour on my home fuelling station). Some gasstation have installations to fill it up in 3 minutes but those pumps are few and far between.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Oh by the way, it takes on about 18kg of CNG (at 93 cent per kg at the pump and 50 cents per kg for home fuelling) and that takes me about 350/400 kilometers.....

Peace

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Well I'm not really sure so I did a little search:

LPG costs a little more than half the price of petrol or diesel, but fuel economy will be about 20-25% lower. Overall running an LPG car costs approximately a third less than a petrol only car – but only once you've recovered the cost of the conversion.

Conversion of an existing petrol car so it can run on petrol or LPG costs between £1500 and £2500, so you'll need to travel around 14,000 miles a year to make the conversion worthwhile.

source

1/3 less is quite a good saving imo, especially if you bought a new LPG car and didn't need to convert it (I'm not even sure if they sell ready-made LPG cars).

reply to post by operation mindcrime


CNG isn't as good as LPG, it's just supposedly "safer".

CNG, on the other hand, being roughly 50% more expensive than LPG for the fuel itself, also requires higher compression and thus thicker walled tanks, adding to its material cost and weight. Refueling stations are also much more expensive to build than LPG.

en.wikipedia.org...

lol, look at the propaganda on Wikipedia... this is what they have to say about LPG:

However, it has drawbacks because it is heavier than air and tends to collect below a vehicle or tank during leaks, which would allow it to ignite explosively upon ignition.
---
It is rarely used in developed countries as a transport fuel due to above mentioned drawbacks.

So I suppose Australia isn't a developed country?
I guess we must be like the only people who use it so much...
And I can't even remember the last time I heard of an LPG car explosion.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

CNG isn't as good as LPG, it's just supposedly "safer".

No....it's safer, cleaner and cheaper!!

Peace

LPG system can be mounted in any petrol car (there are some diesel versions but in early stages abd expensive).
We are up to forth generation of LPG fuel injection tech. First two were mounted at air intake which resulted in poer loss since it had to be modified and was unable to take all the air it needed.

Since third generation the sequence injection was introduced which works almost like petrol injection.

LPG usage is cheaper than petrol let me give You an example:
1.5 petrol engine with 3rd gen LPG system:
consumption in liters/100km
Petrol mixed conditions(city+roads) : 7.5-9 liters
LPG mixed conditions : 9-13 liters (more in lower temperatures).

so as you see it uses more than petrol but its still alot cheaper

Sorry for wierd terms but i never had any use of automotive terms when i was learning english

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Then why does Wikipedia state CNG is "roughly 50% more expensive than LPG" hmmmm?

And I don't think it would really be much cleaner, if at all. LPG is very clean as it is.

Also, CNG tanks needs to be much thicker. The only downfall of LPG is that it's heaver than air.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Then why does Wikipedia state CNG is "roughly 50% more expensive than LPG" hmmmm?

And I don't think it would really be much cleaner, if at all. LPG is very clean as it is.

Also, CNG tanks needs to be much thicker. The only downfall of LPG is that it's heaver than air.

Well if you are going to use wiki as your source.....

My government has this thing with taxes. They put tax on the fuel you buy. Because CNG is less polluting and is considered a "green fuel" it is taxed less.

On top of that my country (the Netherlands) is sitting on a hugh amount of natural gas and thus it costs less here.

Peace

We get LPG (propane) cars from the factory in Europe and have done for a long time. They usually can run from LPG and switch over to petrol when it runs out. Typically they are called 'dual fuel' cars.

I would guess that 20% of filling stations have a pump.

The UK government also subsidises getting existing cars converted.

LPG costs about half the cost of petrol at the pumps but LPG for home heating is much cheaper and is identical.

reply to post by operation mindcrime

My government has this thing with taxes. They put tax on the fuel you buy. Because CNG is less polluting and is considered a "green fuel" it is taxed less.

I'm fairly sure the Australian Government also does a similar thing with LPG here to give people incentive to convert to LPG. Because LPG is also considered a "green fuel". Although Wikipedia does state CNG is greener than LPG, but by how much I'm not sure. It's clear that LPG and CNG cars are both much cleaner than petrol cars.

On top of that my country (the Netherlands) is sitting on a hugh amount of natural gas and thus it costs less here.

Well that would explain it. Although wouldn't they be able to use that gas to make LPG as well? I'm not really sure what the main difference between CNG and LPG are, chemical wise, except that one is compressed gas and the other is liquid gas. It seems odd that LPG would be more expensive than CNG anywhere in the world.

reply to post by EasyPleaseMe

I would guess that 20% of filling stations have a pump.

In Australia it's more like 80 to 90 percentage, possibly even higher. It's even possible all of them have LPG pumps now, but I don't really pay that much attention to know for sure.

Oh wow, check out this CNN article released just yesterday:

Long Beach, California (CNN) -- Gasoline at $4 a gallon is no worry for T. Boone Pickens, the billionaire energy investor from Texas. He drives from his home to his office in a car that runs on fuel costing less than $1 a gallon.

His method: He has a device that fuels his Honda Civic GX with natural gas from the pipes that serve his home. And he thinks there's a lesson there for America's energy woes.

Pickens, who is speaking Wednesday at the TED2012 Conference in Long Beach, California, said America needs to make natural gas a building block of a plan for ending oil imports from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Natural gas is "cheaper, it's cleaner, it's abundant and it's ours, and we're fools not to use it," Pickens said in an interview with CNN.

How a billionaire fills gas tank for $1 a gallon

There isn't a thread on this yet... I think I might make one.

LPG system can be mounted in any petrol car

If your car is fuel injected you will have a lot of problem trying to convert the car as the computer controls everything when its running on gasoline.

You will have to find a way to control the engine to run it on CNG or LPG that meets your state and federal rules. some states like Calif require that any conversion meet there california air resources board requirements and they have to be tested BY the CARB before they can even be sold.
or they have to be original equipment on a new vehicle
i you in a CARB approved conversion be prepared to pay more then one that is Just EP approved

I am trying to just convert a carbureted engine motorhome engine to TBI fuel injection so i can get better fuel control and cleaner burn in the engine so i get better MPG. but CARB does not want cleaner motor homes just money for there agency to approve the systems.

At this point it looks like i will have to move out of the state to be able to install the system.
But that is one of the reasons i am buying the motorhome as i can not stand the regulations that don't make any sense in Calif any more.
I am moving back to Texas