Ok, this post is weird, but hear me out:

Is it possible to alter the fabric of reality with magick? I mean, isn't that the whole point of using magick, to impose one's will on the universe to make things happen, rather than "going with the flow?"

I have used magick to alter unexplainably situations & events. Not tremendously often, but several (dozen) times. For example: I was at this job where I was going nowhere, treated like a non-entity, and had my immediate superior be nasty to me all day. So one night I do a spell so I can get everything I want from this job. The next day the president calls me into the office, says I'm a genius (chortle), and gives me a huge raise (thousands of dollars) & a promotion. Then he says he's been noticing how my immediate superior has been picking on me, and asked me if I would like to straighten her out. So I said: "sure." And he goes and screams at her until she bursts into tears. Meanwhile, evil me was in heaven: I got everything I wanted. But it all seemed weird & artificial, like superimposing an image where it does not belong. And I wondered if I wasn't doing something wrong, just in terms of the flow of the universe.

What happens if me & other magick practitioners do stuff like this to reality over and over again? Are we undermining the fabric of reality? Are we pissing Somebody off? Is there a divine plan & are we setting it off course, bit-by-bit?

In one of my meditations I "received" (intuited?) the following information. That when we perform an effective magick spell for a certain desire that runs counter to the Plan, everything has to be "reshuffled." Sometimes the reshuffling can be very minor. Sometimes it can take months, even years--I have seen this in cases where I did a big spell & it has taken a long time to manifest & I assume it didn't work & I forget & months pass & all of the sudden it manifests.

And if the fabric of reality does get weakened, what does it mean? What happens?

I always thought that the big hoodoo about 2012 is that the fabric of reality gets severely warped, or reaches a point where it cannot hold itself together.

So I'm just wondering...

And for those who think this whole business of magick itself is total balderdash, I apologize for insulting your sensibilities. I know I'm just impressionable & prone to flights of fancy & just looking for security in an unsure world.

Ok, this post is weird, but hear me out:

I dont think "weird" is the word your going for here..

For example: I was at this job where I was going nowhere, treated like a non-entity, and had my immediate superior be nasty to me all day. So one night I do a spell so I can get everything I want from this job. The next day the president calls me into the office, says I'm a genius (chortle), and gives me a huge raise (thousands of dollars) & a promotion. Then he says he's been noticing how my immediate superior has been picking on me, and asked me if I would like to straighten her out. So I said: "sure." And he goes and screams at her until she bursts into tears.

In all of my years in the work place, being both a supervisor and an employee, have I ever heard something so obviously made-up. This sounds like a fairy tale.

The next day the president calls me into the office, says I'm a genius (chortle), and gives me a huge raise (thousands of dollars) & a promotion.

Really? Congratulations! A few questions if I may? To what position were promoted to? What prompted the "genius" comment? Did they have a parade for you or name a day after you? What was your position before? What miracle did you perform for the company?

Then he says he's been noticing how my immediate superior has been picking on me, and asked me if I would like to straighten her out.

Yup, every big boss I ever had, hated those mean bosses under them. Always picking on someone. Makin them show up on time and work. Those jerks!

So I said: "sure." And he goes and screams at her until she bursts into tears.

You two got a good laugh from this? What was the point? What exactly did he say?

And for those who think this whole business of magick itself is total balderdash, I apologize for insulting your sensibilities. I know I'm just impressionable & prone to flights of fancy & just looking for security in an unsure world.

You should apologize for printing trash and lies like this. I come to the site to avoid garbage posts such as this one. This thing belongs in the trash or at least BTS. Noone deserves points for this meaningless trash.

Oh, one more thing, I WANT THE LAST TEN MINUTES OF MY LIFE BACK THAT I JUST WASTED ON THIS THREAD !!!!!!!!!

Seems like the old karma will kick in. I've looked into and done some small studies of magick, my personal conclusions are that it is not for me. Not because I don't believe in its effects. But because I don't believe in the way it is used.
All things have to obey basic laws of nature, if you start to try to defy them nature will allow it for a time until it becomes an issue. Thats when the "powers at be" will redress the balance. It was only after becoming heavily involved in the outdoors and such that my interest in magick faded. I started to see the magick of nature and how it works.

I saw that trying to bend things to my will was a futile attempt, since they can't be broken they just warp for a time before springing back to how they should be. As anyone whos shot elasctic bands will know, when they loose it kinda stings if you on the other end of it. Which is right where you are when you defy the basic laws of things.
Far from saying all magick is wrong. I have seen the way some folk use Wicca for an example( only as it seems to be the most popular and first thing in my head) they don't try to change things, sometimes give something a small nudge in a different direction yes. But change it's fundamental makeup no.

Just try to remember we are not gods, while you can move a plant from your garden to your kitchen, it will still be a plant and we do not have the authority to make it otherwise.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

What happens if me & other magick practitioners do stuff like this to reality over and over again? Are we undermining the fabric of reality? Are we pissing Somebody off? Is there a divine plan & are we setting it off course, bit-by-bit?

Sounds like your missing a basic grasp of how Magick works. Magick doesn't undermine reality. There is no difference in the greater scheme of things from using your will magically or using your will to kiss your bosses butt for a promotion, or using your will to work harder and get noticed. (Morally is another matter).

Results from using Magick come via natural means, which is why it can't be "tested" someone can always chalk it up to coincidence.

What the hell is Magick? Do you guys mean Magic?

Originally posted by feygan
Seems like the old karma will kick in. I've looked into and done some small studies of magick, my personal conclusions are that it is not for me. Not because I don't believe in its effects. But because I don't believe in the way it is used.
All things have to obey basic laws of nature, if you start to try to defy them nature will allow it for a time until it becomes an issue. Thats when the "powers at be" will redress the balance.

Magick doesn't defy the laws of nature, shooting fireballs out your fingertips only works in video games.

I saw that trying to bend things to my will was a futile attempt, since they can't be broken they just warp for a time before springing back to how they should be.

People bend things to their will all the time. Your responce to this thread was a result of you applying your will to your computer. A bonsai tree is a good example to people applying their will to nature. Yea if they stop appling their will to the tree it will revert to a bush or just die but as long as they are using their will to effect change it still will look how they want.

Just try to remember we are not gods, while you can move a plant from your garden to your kitchen, it will still be a plant and we do not have the authority to make it otherwise.

Well if that plant was a carrot, I can use my will to change it to .... err fertilizer.

Originally posted by RATT

What the hell is Magick? Do you guys mean Magic?

Aleister Crowley added the "k" to Magic so people would not confuse it with stage magic (David copperfield, Sigfrid and Roy, David Blaine).

The definition of Magick is

"is the Science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with Will"



[edit on 20-9-2004 by Cug]

sublime4372, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Have you ever experienced anything to do with magick? No? Then who do you think you are to comment?
Perhaps you would not have wasted 10 minutes on this thread if you hadn't wasted all our time writing your rather useless comments.

RATT - We spell it Magick to differentiate between true Magick and 'magic tricks/conjuring'.

Magick is basically pulling in the energy around you and making you mind focus on something from what I understand. You might do a spell for wealth and then go out a lottery ticket and win. You have to back up your spell with actions in the real world I believe.
We have some resident Wiccans/Magickians on the board who are experienced in these matters so hopefully they comment.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
sublime4372, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Have you ever experienced anything to do with magick? No? Then who do you think you are to comment?
Perhaps you would not have wasted 10 minutes on this thread if you hadn't wasted all our time writing your rather useless comments.

RATT - We spell it Magick to differentiate between true Magick and 'magic tricks/conjuring'.

Magick is basically pulling in the energy around you and making you mind focus on something from what I understand. You might do a spell for wealth and then go out a lottery ticket and win. You have to back up your spell with actions in the real world I believe.
We have some resident Wiccans/Magickians on the board who are experienced in these matters so hopefully they comment.

read my post more carefully-- I didnt attack magick or how ever the "cool"way to spell it is. What I "attacked" was that half baked story. I challenge "Cassie" to prove that story in anyway, ANYWAY! its a crock. This site is here to DENY IGNORANCE, not bathe in it. Thats what BTS is for.

Sorry, I shouldn't come on here and write stuff when I've just got up on a Monday morning!

I apologise for my outburst! I see your point regarding the story, some more details would indeed be useful and as it stands it is rather like some weird movie.
Though the questions posed by Cassie are interesting, it does however sound suspiciously like the episode of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' that was aired here in the UK the other night in which the ex-school muppet 'casts' a 'spell' in which he warps reality to one where he is popular and some sort of super hero - tampering with the physical world and people's minds around him. It is in fact what sprung to mind when I read the post this morning. Perhaps this is what Cassie saw and brought forward this question?

Originally posted by RATT
What the hell is Magick? Do you guys mean Magic?

Pfffftt! Where have you been? Magic is for possers and wanna-bes! Magick is for the real cool people.

lol jonna

but seriously i do believe that Karma will seek it dues for actions that you may have prematurely changed or altered. While the paranormal is a big interest, magick is something I personally would not mess with. Everything has its price and I am not sure I want to pay the price for changing something that under normal circumstances i wouldn't have any control of.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
but seriously i do believe that Karma will seek it dues for actions that you may have prematurely changed or altered. While the paranormal is a big interest, magick is something I personally would not mess with. Everything has its price and I am not sure I want to pay the price for changing something that under normal circumstances i wouldn't have any control of.

Many magical people I know consider paranormal & psychic functioning, OOBEs, etc. to be just as much a part of magic as spellwork and ritual.

As to altering one's fate in defiance of Karma, I pose a question to you: Say you went to sleep with a bad feeling and then had a dream or vision where you are horribly injured in a car crash due to ice. The next day dawns sunny and clear, later turning to freezing rain, covering all the roads with ice just as you're about to go to a party. You look at the clock, and what do you know, it's the exact same time you started having your bad feeling the night before! Do you go out anyway, or call your friends and tell them never mind? If you choose the latter, have you changed your karma or not?

(This actually happened to me, btw, and after opting for staying in, I found out the next day that there had been a number of fatal & injurious accidents in the same area where the party was to be held.)

[edit on 20-9-2004 by Hecate100]

I would have to disagree with Cug!

Quote: "Is it possible to alter the Fabric of Reality with Magick?"

Yes - More or Less! You have to Realize that Reality is Pliable & Elastic. Your Personal "Reality" is just your Mind's Perception & Rendering of
"Universal Reality". Thats why every time you Learn something New & Expand your Conciousness -"Reality" Changes. Happens all the time right?!

What do you think "Money" is used for? It is all an Illusion! It is people trying to force their WILL upon "Reality". It is Exactly A.C.'s Definition of "Magick"! What is Cash - just Rectangular Pieces of Paper with squiggly lines of Incantations on them. It has "Value" because it is Perceived & Agreed upon by Entities doing Transactions as having "Value"!!!

Will Power IS Magick!!!

Have you ever noticed how Obnoxious some Advertisements are & how Hypnotizing/Brainwashing the Constant Stream of Commercials coming out of your TV are? Yup you got it -> "Magick". It can be used for Positive or Negative Purposes - but if you screw someone over don't expect to just get off Scott Free forever - Karma is indeed still in play!!!


[edit on 20-9-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 21-9-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

touche!!! I see your point, but I personally don't consider oobes, dreams, visions as being Magick in the way Cassie describes.

The type of magick, i wouldn't partake in is the weaving of spells, incantations, rituals, etc to change or benefit an individual or situation, i believe that is the type of magick that cassie means.

as for a dream altering karma, now that is a tricky one and one which i too have crossed the border and have followed a dream's advice and then spared of certain consquences, now whether or not I changed my karma or that it will come back to me, I am not sure, but it hasn't happened yet, but I don't rule out the possibility that karma allowed the dream to warn me, since if it wasn't for my good karma, i may not have had the dream and may not be here today.

btw, i love discussions like this

Originally posted by worldwatcher
touche!!! I see your point, but I personally don't consider oobes, dreams, visions as being Magick in the way Cassie describes.

I know, I was merely pointing out that the line between magic (with or without the "k") and the paranormal/psychic phenomena is blurry at best. While I tend to separate them for analytical purposes, I've not noticed much of a difference in practice. IMHO, of course.

The type of magick, i wouldn't partake in is the weaving of spells, incantations, rituals, etc to change or benefit an individual or situation, i believe that is the type of magick that cassie means.

Aye, but more often than not, the benefit spreads far beyond just one person. For example, an increase of money achieved via spellwork will enable one to contribute to charitable causes or even start a business (thereby providing income to others), and a spell to make one open to meet the love of one's life may well result in a happy family. Considering any act made out of attachment/fear/desire affects one's karma, it doesn't seem to me that magic is any different than normal human activity in that respect.

as for a dream altering karma, now that is a tricky one and one which i too have crossed the border and have followed a dream's advice and then spared of certain consquences, now whether or not I changed my karma or that it will come back to me, I am not sure, but it hasn't happened yet, but I don't rule out the possibility that karma allowed the dream to warn me, since if it wasn't for my good karma, i may not have had the dream and may not be here today.

I'm actually looking forward to reincarnation, and considering I try to help and not harm people, I don't worry too much about karma. I'm paranoid enough, thanks.

btw, i love discussions like this

Me too!

[edit on 20-9-2004 by Hecate100]

Originally posted by Cassie Clay
In one of my meditations I "received" (intuited?) the following information. That when we perform an effective magick spell for a certain desire that runs counter to the Plan, everything has to be "reshuffled." Sometimes the reshuffling can be very minor. Sometimes it can take months, even years

Its about to get weirder!

I've often wondered about this myself before. How can people conduct magick spells without having to remove anyones free will? I'm a believer in the multi-universe theory and perhaps that provides the answer. It is said that for each choice we make a universe is created for every opposite of that choice.

I've also noticed that spells are never resolved the same day (at least to my knowledge). So I believe that when a spell is cast we are basically putting forth a request to swap our consciousness with ourselves in another universe under the ideal conditions that we chose. When we sleep our souls are supposedly set "free" for a time so perhaps it could arrange this swap.

This could be what was meant by "reshuffling" in your intuition. The reason the time varies between resolution of spells could be because your ideal universe does not yet exist so you are waiting for the choices to be made that will give you what you want.

So as I see it your not undermining the fabric of reality your just taking advantage of it. You have to be carefull when doing this though. You get what you want but you become part of a seperate universe with its own different timeline. What happens there might not happen here, and it could end up being worse than what you left.

What is reality?

The reality known in North America is different then that known to Hindu monks, which is different then that known to the inhabitants of the Canary Islands, and so on and so forth.

So, what is reality? If you are raised to believe in magic, and all its workings, then your outlook of life will differ with someone who was raised Catholic. A shaman's reality, even though bound in the spiritual and the natural, does differ when compared to an English Wiccan, even though she too believes in the spiritual and natural. Understand?

Personally, I feel that if you believe in something strong enough, and if several others do as well, then it will come to be...

Originally posted by sublime4372

Ok, this post is weird, but hear me out:

I dont think "weird" is the word your going for here..
Well what word am I going for here, "genius"? It's easy to sit back with your little cartoon avatar of a 5-year-old in his pajamas and act like you know everything about the universe.

For example: I was at this job where I was going nowhere, treated like a non-entity, and had my immediate superior be nasty to me all day. So one night I do a spell so I can get everything I want from this job. The next day the president calls me into the office, says I'm a genius (chortle), and gives me a huge raise (thousands of dollars) & a promotion. Then he says he's been noticing how my immediate superior has been picking on me, and asked me if I would like to straighten her out. So I said: "sure." And he goes and screams at her until she bursts into tears.

In all of my years in the work place, being both a supervisor and an employee, have I ever heard something so obviously made-up. This sounds like a fairy tale
I also hexed my b***h supervisior and watched a stream of roaches fly out of her desk while she was standing on top of her chair screaming. Being the good worker I was, I kindly smashed them dead with my shoe & threw them in the trash. Oh, and all her files for the big report got corrupted that day too. But I guess I must have planted the bugs & broke into her computer & corrupted her files, huh, because magick doesn't exist? Because obviously you have all the answers in life.

The next day the president calls me into the office, says I'm a genius (chortle), and gives me a huge raise (thousands of dollars) & a promotion.

Really? Congratulations! A few questions if I may? To what position were promoted to? What prompted the "genius" comment? Did they have a parade for you or name a day after you? What was your position before? What miracle did you perform for the company?

I was promoted from Assistant Nothing with no experience in that field to Manager in three months. I had a raise of 9 thousand dollars. The President of the firm actually said that I was a "genius" (tho I can see why you're so upset, because obviously the title of genius belongs to you). What miracle did I perform for the company--nothing, I just performed a miracle for myself.
Then he says he's been noticing how my immediate superior has been picking on me, and asked me if I would like to straighten her out.

Yup, every big boss I ever had, hated those mean bosses under them. Always picking on someone. Makin them show up on time and work. Those jerks!
No, actually my immediate superior told me that I was a white-trash dullard with no fashion sense & she would insult me on a regular basis. That's why watching her cry like a little baby was so much FUN!! You sound like a boss who gets very frustrated with your workers & can never understand why those lazy bums complain. But you should only start worrying when they start carrying around a book with a pentagram on it; you don't want to p**s those workers off.

So I said: "sure." And he goes and screams at her until she bursts into tears.

You two got a good laugh from this? What was the point? What exactly did he say?
He told her to stop picking on me & that she thinks she's such a big deal but she's really a nothing, and if he hears her insult me one more time he's gonna fire her. Oh, and the VP was in there yelling at her too. I got more than a good laugh from it. I think I got an orgasm from it.

And for those who think this whole business of magick itself is total balderdash, I apologize for insulting your sensibilities. I know I'm just impressionable & prone to flights of fancy & just looking for security in an unsure world.

You should apologize for printing trash and lies like this. I come to the site to avoid garbage posts such as this one. This thing belongs in the trash or at least BTS. Noone deserves points for this meaningless trash.
Oh, one more thing, I WANT THE LAST TEN MINUTES OF MY LIFE BACK THAT I JUST WASTED ON THIS THREAD !!!!!!!!!

Oh but you read the whole long thread & then wasted more of your valuable time picking it apart quote by quote? What exactly is the bug up your @$$? There is no reason for the hostility unless something about my post bothered you in a far deeper way than mere "insulting of your intelligence." If you don't want to believe in magick, fine. It's better for people like me if people like you (and the majority of the populace) don't believe in magick. If the woman at my job believed in magick & then all this stuff happened, she'd think I was a witch & firebomb my car (or at least key it up very bad). The closemindedness of people like you is exactly the advantage I need. Keep up the good work, pal!

Originally posted by AgentSmith
It is in fact what sprung to mind when I read the post this morning. Perhaps this is what Cassie saw and brought forward this question?

Actually, I saw an ad for the movie "The Forgotten" where it looked like reality was being radically altered so certain people no longer existed; and it got me thinking about the "fabric of reality" (if indeed it there is such a thing).