Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say

reply to post by Unity_99


I hear you, and your unction is not distasteful. My encouragement to you is not to dissuade your judgments/desires, my encouragement to you is to emphasize that your application of judgment should be with yourself and should be sovereign, but where you judge others, it should be overwhelmingly considerate, gentle, and mostly impotent (just as my encouragement is unable to directly change you - it is by the renewing of your mind/heart that life grows in you). To say again, I am not necessarily opposed to your view, but I am against any one person thinking that they can exercise impunity in their judgment against others. There are natural balances to such poor conduct (as our society is experiencing now), but our goal should be for us to live with such a repentant heart that we can make judgments without fostering more decay than we are trying to prevent.

My reasoning behind being pro life isn't as most people is...



Abortion can cause CANCER.





I dont like babies. Nor care if they are aborted.... I think that is truly a women's choice....



HOWEVER i Must object to any proceeder that could endanger the patient...

Originally posted by truthinfact
My reasoning behind being pro life isn't as most people is...



Abortion can cause CANCER.





I dont like babies. Nor care if they are aborted.... I think that is truly a women's choice....



HOWEVER i Must object to any proceeder that could endanger the patient...

Huh?

How does removing a fetus from the body cause cancer? Chemical abortions might -- I don't know, I'm not versed on that, but mechanical abortions cannot cause cancer.

reply to post by Laokin


Fantastic post.
I also agree that, in this realm, all things are simply shades of gray.
Where I might differ is that there is certainly a "direction" or "way" that leads to Life and a way that leads to death. And thus, the path is narrow and few are on it. The easy and commons paths are to never judge or to judge without grace.

Chemical abortions***


Thats true the physical ones dont.




Still like I said... women's choice..


My personal opinion... Id like a lil me some day =]

reply to post by gecrazy


You're absolutly right. I've said it in a post in the past. A friend of mine was raped and got pregnant. She couldn't handel it. She started to punch herself in the stomach and mutilate herself. She could could handle a living thing growing inside her spawned by such violence and hate. It was evil to her. She got an abortion and emidiatly she was better. Not 100% better but better. Now she leads a normal life has kids and everything. If she had kept the kid she would probably ended up killing herself. Now, you fanatical pro-life people, tell me that wasn't the right descision.

reply to post by XelNaga

say they were raped by a parent. why would they want that child? say they were raped in general. why would they want that child?

Being unwanted is not a capital offense, yet. That time is obviously coming.

reply to post by Unity_99


..Unless Liberals believe that at some magical moment coming out of the vagina a baby is suddenly "a person" then by their logic a new born baby, who cannot function as an adult, is in fact not a Human. It's a multi-celled organism that can be exterminated at the will of the mother (not the father, he gets no say because everyone knows men cannot have emotional attachments to their offspring.. duh)

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Laokin

 

This is propaganda aimed at the pro-life group to cause a rally against abortions.

You may be right. But I dont think it is despicable. Quite the opposite, if some views used to justify abortion can be used to justify killing newborns, then by all means, we need to oppose them. And I am saying that as a pro-choice.

Then the propaganda worked on you.



Some views can be used to justify theft and murder too, however -- we still do it on a day to day basis.

Or do we not have soldiers shooting other soldiers who have nothing to do with the argument at hand?


Reality is much more dynamic than you make it out to be.


Children cost money, health cost money -- a poor persons family may fall ill and die because they cannot afford the luxuries of the many, in this particular situation, you could be killing 3-4 people. If an abortion alleviated that condition and the child never existed -- wouldn't that be the appropriate action in regard to the sanctity of life?


Most people have problems putting themselves in other peoples positions, not realizing that nobody gets to be successful purely on merit. There is always circumstance, there is always coincidence, there is always luck (i.e. being born into money vs being born poor.)

Starting in the middle and moving up is easier than starting at the bottom and moving up, however -- people always assume it's the product of the actions of the person in question that results in their outcome.


The real truth is, people all depend on other people, nobody is absolutely independent.


The views used to justify the killing of a murderer are the same views often used by the murderer unless he is a psychopath serial killer who kills just for fun.

Most murders are incited by an injustice. And so we deem it reasonable to kill a man who murdered a man who murdered his wife.

Reality is murky and the bottom line is context matters.


So why did I say the article was despicable, because it's written in a way to make people believe society as a whole justifies abortion in the same way they do killing newborns and infanticide.

In reality, nobody condones infanticide outright, at least nobody that is part of the popular opinion.

In other words, the article is pure B/S. It's a lie.


If I were to convince you that going to the moon is wrong, I should convince you based on merits, not by saying ridiculous things like space aliens will eat you if you go to the moon. That is an appeal to emotion, specifically fear. A formal logical fallacy. That would be manipulation not free thought.


Abortion and infanticide are two completely different things. This article states that they are morally the same -- this is a pure falsity, as they aren't. So when a reader goes "Oh hey, Infanticide is like Abortion, thus we need to do something about abortion -- even though I'm pro-choice" you've been manipulated by falsehoods and for a lack of a better word, brainwashed into siding with the author.


To get somebody to side with you based on untrue or subjective rhetoric that is being spun to purposefully manipulate for political gain the opinion of your subject is just outright wrong.

It's the exact definition of propaganda.

Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of political warfare.

Propaganda is wrong. This is propaganda. Hence -- it's despicable.

I really don't think it's a matter of opinion that it's propaganda. And the definition of propaganda is a negative -- which means it's bad.

So when somebody does something that is bad on purpose isn't that despicable by definition?



TLR
----------

The article is an appeal to emotion, specifically sympathy. Which is a formal logical fallacy. This makes the entire article wrong, completely, as it's using ILLOGICAL argument to convince a reader based on their natural emotion of sympathy to change their stance on a political issue.

reply to post by Dasher


Judging those who have done things, some according to customs who didn't think deeply enough on it, and some who acted poorly but grow past this, is not what any of my posts are about. Its about the group consensus or Law, which has to remain in place to protect Life. These are basic common laws.

Its not judgment on anyone, I would never judge a person who has been in that situation or was forced or felt it was necessary due to the circumstances of their culture or conditions, to even make such a choice.

I don't blame people for any thing, only want freedom, healing and upliftedness for all.

I blame the self appointed board of directors of the school and even there have asked myself, well, if I was born in such a circumstance, how hard would it be to walk away from that family or wealth and copy Buddha, and wake up?

So while I occasionally slip into blame there, I'm sorry for that, and only wish we could encircle them in their pits and throw down a hand to boost them up and out.

But, when people speak up from positions of authority, or paid to do so, to promote an agenda, they are very responsible for their words and actions, as they greatly impact everyone.

So they need to do some deep thinking, because I've had some very knowledgeable friends assure me that some of these people believe they are really doing the right thing. That this is necessary to advance the species and have been lied to by entities over their heads for a long time. Love does not HARM. Its quite basic. Wolves don't serve Goodness. So some are truly distorted in their thinking.

Others have sold out, to darkness and think they have no choice.

I'm here to say they do.

I would say this to them:

Renounce it, there its over. Now, try to reach into the smaller amount of light that has suffered from so much harm to others, and start to seek for help and courage to deal with this, to face with empathy for your victims what you've done, and don't give up, ever.

Rather go through that, for anytime you hurt another, you're hurting yourself, with Help And Support, than alone.

So, whoever on this agenda needs to make a U-Turn. And they still can.

reply to post by Unity_99


Well we cluster-bomb, without discrimination, our poor and destitute brothers and sisters in the middle east, so what does that say about how our ociety is treating the lessers of us out there?

I know, I know, "they" are not part of "our" (americas) society right?

What do you expect from the western worlds experts of academia when this kind of "war" is permissable?

Did you all really think that we would only treat others like this and it doesn't come home to roost?

Bottom line is there is NO respect for human life any where on this planet when it comes to the haves speaking about us have-nots...

Not saying it's right, really just sayin

reply to post by CaLyps0


Why? Would you or your better half get an abortion? Would a member of your family get an abortion? Would any of your close friends have an abortion? If the answer is no then what is it to you? It changes nothing to your life. It doesn't effect you in anyway what so ever. Go about your day and let that poor rape victims cope in their own way with the atrocities that were done to them. Who are you or anybody else to say that they have no right to expunge that evil seed from their body?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


So that teenage girl who gives birth to her baby in a bathroom, kills it, and then throws it in a dumpster, isn't doing anything wrong? Or does she actually have to take it to a Dr. to kill it? Because that would be the right thing to do. Babies aren't "morally relevant"? This article disgusts me!

reply to post by AlienStalker


I don't. And have spoken up enormously about it. I even phoned in on the crisis line when they first started bombing in Afghanistan, for my baby was in his playpen when I learn of a family and their children/baby blow apart, and they did not die quickly. The father made it home and had to hold them in his arms as they died.

I denounce and renounce it all and don't vote.

I hand back the karma to the bloodlines and have already been told, that there is already one government, this is all a show, at human expense.

I only stand for this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
The World I want to See

And have given them this warning and invitation to light and love:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
To All TPTB/Black Ops, Time To Wake Up To Equality and Love

And also, as to their karma and traps for people:

www.upgradereality.com...

When he got in Buddha’s presence he verbally abused him, he insulted and offended him.
Buddha was unmoved.

He simply turned to the man and said: ‘ May I ask you a question?’
The man agreed and said: ‘ Well what?’

Buddha: ‘ When someone offers you a gift and you decline to accept it, to whom then does it belong?’
Man: ‘ Well then it belongs to the person who offered it.’
Buddha smiled: ‘That is correct.’

Buddha: So if I decline to accept your abuse, does it not then still belong to you?
The man was speechless and left.

In this case, 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Originally posted by gecrazy
reply to post by Unity_99

 

I just don't get why people think abortion is wrong. yes i do believe that your killing a living being ,but what if that person became pregnant by someone who raped her? I think everybody should have the right to have an abortion. And be happy

edit on 29-2-2012 by gecrazy because: (no reason given)

You realise most abortions are not because of rape right, it is a lifestyle choice, and there is precious little "happy" about any of it

Perhaps in a not too distant future, non productive members just won't exist.

Maybe the right to live will only be an option for people within a certain IQ range.

If the POTUS can legally have you assassinated for being belligerent, who knows, conduct in schools may improve dramatically.

I am sick of experts with no love for humankind.

reply to post by blueorder


Abortions do exist because of rape. Reproduction is not a lifestyle choice for many or most. All over the world. Nor is it substantive equality, to treat women/girls like this, and burden them like this either.

Substantive is worded into Canadian Constitution. And I remember a constitutional lawyer giving a very detailed explanation as to what it means.

Its not just: you are equal, now go and be unequal in a pyramid dog eat dog world, like most people think.
It means, everyone has different circumstances, and that those circumstances must be equalized.

That is why I am cautiously pro choice and with fast detection, and eveyrthing covered, an abortion can be performed in scant weeks. Before the baby has rem sleep and starts to have what I would call, a soul joining the body.

We are not our bodies, we join the body.

Even as a child, coming in like a beam of light and taking a dark warm snuggly nest is one of my memories. About 2 on, when I started asking in my heart, where did babies come from, where did I come from.

But if an accident happens, and someone who would be traumatized and destroyed in their cores at being forced to carry a child, discovers they're pregnant, but it too late, then they need help, good services, adoption agencies, and lots of counseling and support, if they've been raped or are too young to have the child.

Otherwise they just need a socially equal and just society with great services, and childcare being equal to work.

reply to post by Unity_99




Sorry what, most abortions are not because of rape, so what exactly are you talking about- to repeat, most abortions are a lifestyle choice.

Originally posted by Lysergic
Eugenics is alive an well

Maybe not such a bad thing considering we've made natural selection void.

Contraception is available, and people need to be educated, especially young people on it's use. But once there is a conception, every effort ought to be made to support every pregnant woman to bring that baby to term, except under the most dire and exclusive circumstances, because once concieved, although unborn, there is new life.

And just imagine if reincarnation is true, what abortion does to short-circuit the circle of life after a brave soul has made the courageous choice to incarnate, only to be immediately terminated, how unjust would that be?

70,000,000 abortions in the USA can't be a good thing for the karma of the nation whereby most were aborted and thrown away simply due to inconvenience or because it was not "practical".

Pro-life choice, that's what I advocate. Doesn't overturn a woman's right to have an abortion, since she has autonomous rights over the ingerity of her body, just makes the choice to carry the baby to term and giving it up for adoption, the best possible choice for one and all, including the baby and that's baby's future family.

By contraception, I don't mean morning after pills which also terminate post-conception.

Once there's conception there is new human life, and it ought to be protected, particular since it's the most vulnerable among all people, including the unborn.