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Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say

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posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


But it's true.


There's nothing special about the human being until age 4.

That's what you get when you fabricate false words like "person".

What were you expecting when you chose to go against a simple scientific explanation of life?




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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what is life? iam tired of life



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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The worst thing about abortion, is when the baby has no say in the matter.

-Propulsion



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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it is not ok, nor moral to murder newborn babies, nor a human fetus...

edit on 1-3-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)


Nor is it OK or moral to tell a woman what is morally acceptable or not when it comes to HER body.

You may as well try to tell them that it isn't morally acceptable to have the kind of sex that will get you pregnant in the first place. Go ahead and take it a step further and tell that it's morally acceptable to do the money shot every time because it won't get you pregnant. Never mind the fact that that particular sex act, technically, is killing a baby that didn't even have a chance to get in the womb to live. Or better still, I can use your logic in my favor and when a woman turns me down for sex I can tell her " That's morally unacceptable for you because it's physcially unacceptable to me"...... and take it anyway. Never mind the fact that that's rape.....I just took the moral high ground right?

Where does the argument that you people think is valid stop? The fact of the matter is that you're trying to impose your moral stance on other people, and in a case like this there are too many variables involved to let any argument on either side hold water. You need to lighten up and let women be free to make their own decisions without the guilt trip. Whether having an abortion is the right or wrong thing to do, THEY are the ones who are going to live with that decision....not you. I'm not a woman but I can just imagine how hard a decision like this must be even without the likes of you breathing down their necks calling them baby killers who are going to hell. So you don't agree with some of the decisions they make? Tough. Get over yourself and quit thinking that you're some sort of spokesperson for God. Do you cry at night knowing that someone else got an abortion?

Get a life.

People just need to leave women alone when it comes to this becasue it's THEIR body, not yours. To suggest that you or anyone else is more qualified to tell some other woman what to do with THEIR own body is to suggest that they don't have the capacity to make up their own minds. You're basically insulting womens intelligence when you suggest what it is that they do with their bodies in this case.


edit on 1-3-2012 by Taupin Desciple because: Clarity

edit on 1-3-2012 by Taupin Desciple because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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Nor is it OK or moral to tell a woman what is morally acceptable or not when it comes to HER body.


I disagree, when bodies of two beings share a biological connection (such as in case of some pregnant women or siamese twins), then right to decide about their own body ought to be restricted in such a way to protect the other being, too. Also, foetus is NOT a part of the womans body, its just inside her.

For the record, I am generally pro-choice, but this particular argument is quite stupid, IMHO.
edit on 1/3/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
This is outrageous.


I personally don't see the outrage. Killing babies is the same as killing adults. We don't seem to care much about murder when it's an adult, probably because it doesn't pull at our heart strings quite as much.

I am also fully in favour of abortion, rights to abort, rights to kill babies if they are going to live a life of misery and cost the taxpayer millions to care for.

Call me cold hearted but I'm getting more and more numb to these issues.

Edit - Yet another fricking abortion linked post? Really?

T
edit on 1-3-2012 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by MeesterB
 


I agree. When first reading this I actually thought it was some kind of sick satire, in that they were saying how killing a newborn is the same as having an abortion, so killing a newborn should be ok if abortion is too. But after realising they are being serious, it kind of sickens me to think - who would kill a new born and what kind of parents would do this. Dont really want to live in a world where someone, an 'expert', could proclaim this.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


I'm not really seeing how it's anybody's business but the woman in question. Whatever her decision is, SHE has to live with. Nobody else.




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247
This has always been a difficult issue to discuss, but I will give you my opinion.

In a truly free society we have to allow people the freedom to do what they feel necessary. That would include birth control, morning-after pills and abortion in cases in which the pregnancy is in it's EARLY stages or in cases of rape and such. That is one of the downsides of freedom. Abortion is going to happen and we must all come to grips with that.

But abortion in the late stages of pregnancy becomes a real issue because that baby could live without the mother even when it is not fully developed. I think it's wrong.

Now when that baby comes out of the womb there is not any doubt no one has the right to "get rid" of the child for any reason! I don't care what kind of twisted reasoning these intellectual know-it-alls use to justify it, there is no damned reason to kill a child when it has made it through the entire pregnancy, only to be rejected at the very end.

So I say this is complete crap, and this no longer lies in the genre of a "woman's right to choose"!

By the way...what ever happened to the fathers rights? What if he disagrees with that sort of decision?



There are zero fathers' rights when it comes to this discussion. Roe v Wade didn't talk about the dads.

edit: Fathers or would-be fathers have to live with the decision that the pregnant woman makes. I guess in a relationship, there would be some input one way or another from the man to woman, but if it was a one-night-stand kind of thing, the man is either never going to know about it, or be slapped with a paternity suit / child support 9 months later...
edit on 1-3-2012 by primus2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by Lazyninja
 


What makes you think they are liberal? It's not really eugenics, but eugenics generally stems from more right leaning groups.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by Maslo
 


I'm not really seeing how it's anybody's business but the woman in question. Whatever her decision is, SHE has to live with. Nobody else.



I agree with your view, except in later stages of pregnancy. Then there are TWO individuals, a woman and a developed foetus not much different from a baby, that deserve protection. Thus abortion in this time frame is not a personal issue, but an interpersonal, "PUBLIC" issue, and it indeed is the business of a society to regulate it.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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sickening to say the least. we should abort all these so called "experts". it is hard to love your enemies when they want genocide in our communities......... they have said it before, there are too many people on earth, the last thing they want is another free thinking child to be here on the earth.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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The big question is when does the soul enter the vessel we call our three dimensional bodies?

At the microsecond of each of our "big bangs"...............literally when the sperm and the egg collide and a new being is created.

or

When the "fetus" is several months old and already fairly well on his/her way to being formed.

or

as some cultures believe a few days after birth, (I highly doubt because I have seen a still born 4 month old "fetus" an d and he sure looked like a baby to me).

Now -I do not ever presume to tell another woman what to do with her body.

A pregnant woman with no means of support, no education, no family support, no one in her life to help her and possibly even way to young either physically or mentally to care for herself much less a baby is a tough call.

If you are white, pretty, healthy (no addict), good genes, your baby has a very good chance of being adopted by someone with money that really wants and can give your baby a good happy home.

BUT

If you are Black, Hispanic, or dark skinned, a drug addict and your baby comes out with "issues"/"problems" less than perfect - well that baby will either sit in a institution for his/her life with no family or be bumped around from foster care to foster care.

I know, I've talked to social workers.............people that have money and want to adopt usually choose the cute blonde haired, blue eyed cherub.

In my early 20's I was raped..............I missed my period for two days which for me was highly unusual, (every 21 days on the nose).

Back then, abortions were illegal.

But, I had friends that knew a doctor and he was a certified surgeon.

No way, never thought about it for a second - if someone has 1/2 my bloodline in their veins they are mine to love, cherish and care for until I take leave of this harsh, cruel planet.

As it was my period came, I wasn't pregnant and I did see a doctor to be sure I had no diseases.

But during those two days I thought deeply about what if..............

I had and still have a very wonderful (38 years) husband who has always treated me like Queen Cleopatra. He was and continues to be a excellent father, all three of our sons love him tremendously.

Not everyone has the luck or foresight (me it was luck) to be in a relationship where they are going to be taken care of and I'm a tough old bird, but when you get in your later months girl you will need some pampering. My first was 18 hours of hard hard HARD labor, my child from hell I always write about the one with ADHD, the second and third are highly functioning autistic. (No drugs, ate healthy, didn't drink excessively - no drinking not even coffee during pregnacy, always ate whole wheat bread, no sugar (only honey), etc - very healthy lifestyle).

Back to the big question, one to ponder.

Personally I myself believe the soul enters the vessel/body at the time of the mini big bang when the sperm and egg meet and at the time the cells start to bubble bubble toil and trouble and divide into two cells............my own theory, feeling.

Having been pregnant three times...................men have no idea, none, zip, nada of what it is, the true magical, wondrous privilege a woman has to actually carry a little life within her.

My three sons and now a grand daughter are my life.

But, not everyone has the luck of being in a stable relationship with enough money (we struggled for decades to get where we are now and we are still struggling).

Most people in prison were not planned for, not wanted, not cared for, abused (if you have never had an abusive childhood, you have no and I mean NO COMPREHENSION of the damage being abused as a kid does to you.

We need to be telling our youth about birth control, and making it available to them without parental consent or knowledge........sorry but once a kid hits 10-11 with TV, magazines and the way the world is today they are getting sexually active at a younger age.

Free, available birth control clinics.

Once the cow is out of the barn it's sure darn hard to get him back in.

Once a girl is impregnated that's it, she's pregnant there is no going back.

Yes yes yes in a perfect world a girl would wait until she's had a college education, met and gotten to know a nice young successful young handsome, intelligent man with a brilliant future, both have gotten to know each other for a few years, possibly lived together to make sure they can get along and compromise on daily issues and after marriage, wait a few years to save up money for a nice little house and to ensure the baby(ies) will have a two parent household and not be one of 10,000,000 kids that live in a one parent, key latch home - coming home alone to watch the crap "they" are showing on TV or playing on a violent video game "they" are promoting.

To many babies are unwanted--continued below
edit on 1-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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-- continued

Too many babies are unloved, abused, not planned for.

I was the product of a love affair, unwanted, unplanned for.

Luckily my older mother (43) loved me with all her heart and treated me like I was her everything. She gave me a good foundation that would see me through a very rough life....read Oliver Twist and you will get an idea of my life.

At 9 she died of cancer and my father, being married to another woman could not, would not claim me.

I went to live with my older sister and her abusive husband...........most of the members of his family (male) were abusive.

I was told two weeks after my mother was buried, "Listen cookie, nobody gets a free lunch in this world, you will do exactly what I tell you to do or you will wind up in a orphanage - got it. Your days of being a princess are over."

As it was I endured 11 years of physical, mental and sexual abuse.

Most people that are gung ho on no birth control, no abortions, no anything but abstaining haven't a clue as to what real life is like for some people.

While I believe in my heart abortion is murder - I myself would never allow anyone to kill my baby - myself I believe nobody has the right to tell another woman or girl what to do with her body.

It's a mixed bag, I don't believe in abortion as a answer, but some people have no other options if they want to continue on with their life.

I know a woman who has a sister (on Trinidad Island) that went to have a illegal abortion. She bled out and now is mentally handicapped.

If we outlaw abortions, they will continue and they will be performed on kitchen tables by people that don't know what the hell they are doing.

Give another 20 years and that unwanted, unloved baby will end up being another inmate in a prison, another confused, hateful, sad, unloved, psychologically messed up adult.

The subject of abortion saddens me.................I see any baby on TV, hell, please don't leave a baby on my doorstep or abandon dog or cat, I'de be over runned.

Everyone should be wanted, loved, cherished and cared for.

Nobody should have to go through being unwanted, unloved, uncared for - NOBODY.

-- FREE, AVAILABLE BIRTH CONTROL AND SEX EDUCATION --

For those that say abstain, well then throw out the TV's, movies, magazines, video games and all the other crap that is promoting sex, sex and more sex first.

We live in a society that now promotes sex. Our children are exposed to so much garbage it's not even funny.

We no longer live in a Leave It To Beaver Society (If there ever was one).

You want to stop abortions than education, is the answer.

Teaching our youth responsibility and what being a parent should entail and how to prevent unwanted pregnancies.............most of all how to make good life choices that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Too many people are being born that are unwanted, unloved, unplanned for and with not enough money to give them a reasonable start in life.
edit on 1-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
The big question is when does the soul enter the vessel we call our three dimensional bodies?

At the microsecond of each of our "big bangs"...............literally when the sperm and the egg collide and a new being is created.

or

When the "fetus" is several months old and already fairly well on his/her way to being formed.

or

as some cultures believe a few days after birth, (I highly doubt because I have seen a still born 4 month old "fetus" an d and he sure looked like a baby to me).



The soul does NOT enter the baby until the baby takes its first breath.
The soul leaves the body with the last breath.
This is ancient occult law.

But killing a baby AFTER its been born IS murder. Which is what this thread is about.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Pigraphia
Hitler actually hated socialism because socialism means everyone is equal.



he didn't hate socialists, just communists and Jews- the clue is in the name

NATIONAL SOCIALIST

Always worth using instead of the term NAZI,



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 




"ancient occult law",



You don't know do you, you really don't, let's err on the side of caution though and say that it exists before the first breath is taken



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Lazyninja
 


What makes you think they are liberal? It's not really eugenics, but eugenics generally stems from more right leaning groups.



not so, it has been oft employed by left leaning organisations/states



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 




I think, as opposed to "getting" a life, he is interested in preserving it


"WAH WAH WAH IT's A WOMAN's BODY"



With the great blessing comes great responsibilities, not just a subjective notion of "rights"



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 





The soul does NOT enter the baby until the baby takes its first breath.
The soul leaves the body with the last breath.
This is ancient occult law.


I don't believe everything I'm told.

I felt each of my 3 son's consciousness before the third month.



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