US soldier who gave info to Wikileak nominated for nobel peace prize!

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
That is simply this. Did he or did he NOT release classified information, in bulk quantity, outside the people authorized to view it? Yes. He did. Didn't he? Guilty. Period and that really *IS* the end of it.

You keep saying this but you are not making a good argument for this being treason. For his acts to be considered treason he has to aide the enemy. No enemy has been named.

In your opinion what enemy did he aide with the leaking of that information?

Oh c'mon.. This is hunting for an argument that isn't logically there. He was a soldier serving in a combat zone, serving and supporting combat operations. A LARGE volume of what he kicked out the door en masse has direct connection to those combat operations and all aspects of them for the on-going war. Who do you think may have benefited from bottomless pits of after-action type reports from Afghanistan and Iraq?

Much of this stuff I would have LOVED to see. AFTER the war ended. Not during it. Sometimes I think people assume the Taliban/Al Qaeda and it's off shoots are computer illiterate or something. We aren't privy to information they somehow miss seeing. What was interesting to Americans was tactical level intelligence and invaluable training material to an enemy in daily contact with U.S. Forces.

The question of WHAT enemy benefited is so self evident I haven't thought it really important to reiterate.

The way I see it, if I was a soldier (which I wouldn't be anyway as it is just feeding into the whole war machine), i'd rather follow my conscience and commit "treason" against the freaking psycopathic criminals that are running these wars than just keep my mouth shut and be a good boy.

The whole "I was just doing my job" crap is a complete cop-out. Maybe he thought that by joining the army he was being a good citizen, but then he woke up to the reality about what wars are really all about.

Good on him I say.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by groingrinder

 

So... The part where the Constitution clearly and specifically defines Treason shouldn't apply to little Bradley Manning? That is among the only crimes actually defined, in specifics, within the Constitution itself. By that reading, he's guilty.

Now..We can debate for years (and people will) over the right or wrong of his motivation or the cause he may or may not have done it for. Fair enough.... However, the act he committed IS clear, it IS defined by law and by the ORIGINAL founding document of our nation, and he violated that by those terms. He's guilty of treason.

Now..... I welcome everyone who loves him so much, so work hard of mitigating arguments and how his reasons should over-ride his crime. Again though...The crime is a matter of cold, black and white definition...and he's good for every bit of it. Of course, I also don't see any mitigation..but that is where I differ from many here who do.

It is very common for companies to require employees to sign confidentiality contracts before they will allow you to work for them. You have to sign it before you know anything about the inner workings of the business or what standards of ethics they hold. Now, imagine you are hired by a company which is portrayed by it's recruting staff to be the pinnacle example of proper ethics, honor, and integrity.

What do you do then, when you find out that the product your company makes is killing literally millions of innocent men, women, children?

I do not think it would be considered ethical to help conceal these acts. Anyone who knew and helped hide these crimes surely does not have any honor and is also then commiting a crime.

Manning blew the whistle and brought to light several ACTUAL CRIMES. His action, and alleged crime, is the act of giving wikileaks the info, and therefore proving his motivation was to expose these ACTUAL CRIMES that were being actively covered up, to the entire world. He was not caught dealing in a back alley with Al-quaida or the Taliban or with any other enemy, so, the charges of "aiding the enemy" do not apply.

Originally posted by Sly1one

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It never ceases to amaze me how many people hold this traitor up as a hero or something.

Since you are soo keen to use analogies, try this one on for size...

Analogy #3

Top general for Hitler's army decides to spill the beans on the whole agenda early and Hitler gets assassinated before he could rise to power and make good on his agenda...

Is this general too a "filthy dirty rat" who has no "honor" or bla bla bla and needs to be shot dead by firing squad???

Or...

Does he get a pat on the back??


I don't think you thought your oath keeping, honor, loyalty, yes boss, yes sir, aye aye cap'n idea all the way through...

edit on 29-2-2012 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)

(snip) misread the specific example.

My feelings are a matter of deep principle, not debating points. Many topics are, but this one isn't to me. I'll answer just about any scenario the same way and all that may differ is how useful a rat can be and what their ultimate fate ought to be after they stop being useful. Rats are still rats.


I'll concede I'm not among the best crowd for this specific opinion and move on though.....

The whole concept of war is obscene. Along with the blatant disregard for innocent human life.

Of course Santorum and his fanatical crowd won't have you use contraception in the name of the sanctity of human life....but if it's dropping bombs on and shooting up Muslims, well, #, that's ok!

What a #ed up psychopathic bunch of morals these kooks have.

The video sickens me.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Your mentality towards Bradley Manning is soo soo flawed....

In this day and age, In America of all places the world should give people a medal for treason!. America is too corrupt and needs to be dismantled ASAP. You all didn't believe in the New World Order, And now they've stolen and sold off your country.

As for what Bradley Manning did well he just made the collapse occur faster. And for this he deserves a medal.

Please note: im speaking about the government and military industrial complex. Not the American citizen. They are victims in this situation.

Bradley Manning = Hero with Intelligence...

Wait a minute, you mean they have not hanged this #ing traitor yet??

Wait a minute, you mean they have not hanged this #ing traitor yet??

reply to post by mileysubet


Your aware you talking about Bradley Manning right? Not Henry Kissinger or David Rockefeller....

How do you have that mind frame? What American mind control have you been subjected to?

Our enemy is Terror which the US spreads everywhere it goes.
So... wait. Run that by me again?

Originally posted by mileysubet
Wait a minute, you mean they have not hanged this #ing traitor yet??

That is one very unAmerican statement.

You must not know a lot about our constitution.

I understand your confusion if you are unfamiliar with what rights Americans are supposed to have and hope that you have the time to familiarize yourself with it soon.

As for the video.... I feel this is a very justified reason to spread my disgust.

Something that irks me greatly even beyond my nausea...

What are reporters?

They are *witnesses*

...and in this case, I think these are Holy witnesses.

Their families are in my prayers that they can somehow believe they will see their loved ones again.
i wish that somehow they could just reach out and touch their spirits and know that it is real.
These people were obviously very brave and they should be very proud of them. I know that this realization of what is lost may make it seem to hurt even worse and it never should of been, yet still it is not in vain.
They were heroes.

reply to post by Vitchilo


If Obama won the peace prize. I'm sure anybody can. Hell even I can just for sitting on my ass, from what I've seen that's the only thing Obama does.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Emphasis is mine,

It would appear to me that Manning actually kept to his oath, he was defending the constitution from the enemy within, he is a hero, a full blooded American hero. Those calling for his death are the true sick ones, the minute you call for anyone's death, anyone's you are a trying to incite murder, because the taking of life is murder, there is no justification for killing except where your life or your families life is in danger. America, the UK and all the corrupt governments around the world continually murder everyday all around the world using BS excuse to justify their blood lust fuelled greed, Peace prize? Yeah absolutely, he should have a statue on the Whitehouse lawn

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well in the days of Hitler, loyal people to Hitler and his government/army, planned an assination on Hitler since they thought; it's better when he's gone since they saw him as something evil, they failed and paid with their lives.
And we consider them as hero's.

So as an outsider seeing a guy such as Bradley, risking so much; to try to let the truth out, my hat off.

I see the current army/power in the US as something evil so in my eyes, he's a hero.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Were any American soldiers killed or harmed because of the leak?

Why do Americans think its okay to occupy countries and thread the citizens like # because they have another religion than you? That is racism. I'm christian, and I had a muslim girlfriend. Muslims are human beings like you and me.

who is next? Iran?
And dont start with the WMDs. That doesnt work like last time.

I took courage to do what he did. I think he was pretty much aware of possible consequences of his actions. Even if he didn't think he will get caught...still...mere possibility of being caught doing this...you know you're in for a sh** storm...that would deter most zealous men from coming forward with this.

Also, I find it amusing argument that he should have reported it to his superiors or something (aka...proper channels)...that would only accomplish more cover up. The truth would have never reached the public.

Check out this small story from my country. Some years ago...(more than 10), a wife of the president of my country was involved with some charity work, through a charity organisation which she set up, using her housband's political power. A woman working in a bank that was handling oranization's account, realized that this woman was skimming the organization, and using this money (which was donated) for her own private purposes. Anyway...bank teller came out with hard evidence...the public was outraged of course. Wife of the president was stealing money form a charity organization. Epilogue was ?....

Bank employee wound up in jail for disclosing secret bank statements. Presidents wife was not touched, the whole ordeal slowly faded in to background. Nobody is mentioning it today...similar thing will happen to Manning. He will surely be severely punished, and those that committed atrocities will go free and maybe get a medal or two (for bravery or something)...and are probably those that cheer for Manning execution in the first place.

So, what do we do? We punish those that uncover illegal activities...how much you wanna argue (as in Mannings case also) that they broke the law/oath by uncovering the ugly truth, the final judgement needs to be a moral one.

Our laws are not clear enough to determine completely what is wrong and what is right. We need to sometimes go by our conscience...is it right? If you are religious person...than by all means go by your religious beliefs. They should be a moral standard, at least in writing.

I just yesterday heard one of our local reporters commenting, that America likes dissidents and openly supports them....when they are in a foreign country.

Bottom line....the TRUTH is more important than any oath or law. Those who speak or show the truth...must never be punished. However ugly it may be. Sometimes ugly is good...it promotes change. Truth must never be
hidden.

In the end...aren't we all here in this forum for that reason...seeking truth behind lies and manipulation ?

Originally posted by Tennessee77
It is very common for companies to require employees to sign confidentiality contracts before they will allow you to work for them. You have to sign it before you know anything about the inner workings of the business or what standards of ethics they hold. Now, imagine you are hired by a company which is portrayed by it's recruting staff to be the pinnacle example of proper ethics, honor, and integrity.

What do you do then, when you find out that the product your company makes is killing literally millions of innocent men, women, children?

Me, I would report my findings to the relevant law enforcement or product safety agency. Bradley Manning could have done that. Bradley could have gone to CID, or his congressman, or a number of other persons with his alleged evidence of wrongdoing. But he didn't. He gave it to an international broker of stolen information. And 99% of it wasn't even evidence of alleged crimes. The "Bradley Manning--Crusading Exposer of Corruption" boat don't float.

He broke an oath and violated the terms of a sworn agreement. Deserves every bit of punishment he gets.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by Tennessee77
It is very common for companies to require employees to sign confidentiality contracts before they will allow you to work for them. You have to sign it before you know anything about the inner workings of the business or what standards of ethics they hold. Now, imagine you are hired by a company which is portrayed by it's recruting staff to be the pinnacle example of proper ethics, honor, and integrity.

What do you do then, when you find out that the product your company makes is killing literally millions of innocent men, women, children?

Me, I would report my findings to the relevant law enforcement or product safety agency. Bradley Manning could have done that. Bradley could have gone to CID, or his congressman, or a number of other persons with his alleged evidence of wrongdoing. But he didn't. He gave it to an international broker of stolen information. And 99% of it wasn't even evidence of alleged crimes. The "Bradley Manning--Crusading Exposer of Corruption" boat don't float.

So you would report a chopper incident to whom? Product safety agency? Law enforcement? Your superior (who probably knows about it already and probably gave the order to go ahead with it)? Your congressman?? And he would ragingly go against the military that is currently waging war with "terrorists"? Would you have even seen the chopper incident footage if he did any of that?

Oh I forgot...you don't want to see...don't want to know...just follow blindly and ask no questions.

Anyway...I don't condone any secrecy...secrecy from whom? Are you as a tax payer and an American, privy to those secrets? No you aren't. Do you benefit from them ?

One of the greatest people once said...and you know which one is is...

"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it."

Amen to that...

Kudos to the guy.

Exposing the lies and deceit of a corrupt war is always a good thing in my book, even if it is classed as a blatant betrayal to his government.

Don't shoot the messenger. Shoot the corrupt leaders handing agendas down the chain of command instead!