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US soldier who gave info to Wikileak nominated for nobel peace prize!

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posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by groingrinder
 

So... The part where the Constitution clearly and specifically defines Treason shouldn't apply to little Bradley Manning? That is among the only crimes actually defined, in specifics, within the Constitution itself. By that reading, he's guilty.

Now..We can debate for years (and people will) over the right or wrong of his motivation or the cause he may or may not have done it for. Fair enough.... However, the act he committed IS clear, it IS defined by law and by the ORIGINAL founding document of our nation, and he violated that by those terms. He's guilty of treason.

Now..... I welcome everyone who loves him so much, so work hard of mitigating arguments and how his reasons should over-ride his crime. Again though...The crime is a matter of cold, black and white definition...and he's good for every bit of it. Of course, I also don't see any mitigation..but that is where I differ from many here who do.




posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It never ceases to amaze me how many people hold this traitor up as a hero or something.

For those that suddenly excuse deep and hardcore betrayl because you happen to like the results, consider this.

What group, cause or movement do YOU feel strongly enough about to give everything to and dedicate yourself to entirely. Is there one? Lets make this practical since it's really hard to say this with pure theory.

Lets say, for instance, We're talking Occupy. It could be the Tea Party..but I'll use Occupy for the example. How about, instead of this being Manning betraying the U.S. Army he joined, it's OWS. How about, someone in top leadership of OWS proper when it was still camped in Manhattan, had a serious change of heart? You haven't...OWS hasn't..but this one guy has a hardcore conscience issue for whatever reason, and he was a fully trusted person by all, right up to that point.

Now this person doesn't have the guts or class to announce to the rest of OWS that he's come to hate them....No. This person decides to stay right there. Contact the media..for whatever they can get out of it, to see every internal document and recordings of all the off-the-cuff discussions that happen between OWS leaders outside the GA circle.

Basically, due to the person's position and change of heart, they can and do sustain irreparable harm and damage to the movement and the individuals who TRUSTED this person with their cause and their very lives. It isn't hyperbole to anyone who was in that movement and in the camps. Life isn't an overstatement, either. Same logic applies.



So...... I'm a right leaning kind of guy. I ought to applaud the example inside the top levels of OWS turning traitor in-place and working to bring the whole thing down from within, right? Nope.... Despite many probably applauding such a person as brave and heroic...I'd see *THAT* person as being as filthy a traitor as Manning. Different sides...different ideology and RADICALLY different circumstances.

This isn't about all that though. This is about a simple, core issue. Trust and Honor. Manning showed he has absolutely NONE. ...and by the laws and regulations of the military he joined, by his own free choice, he should be tried, convicted and executed for it. It's the most basic principles involved here. Ideology isn't one of them at the heart of it.


Maybe that's just a bad example... but you're missing the point. If an OWS official either did something illegal, or became aware of something illegal, then of course he would be justified in bagging the movement. Because the movement would be based on a lie. If your OWS was doing what it was mandated to do, then your hypohtetical problem wouldn't exist in the first place. Manning did take an oath, that is true. But his understanding of what that oath means matured since he took it.

Nobody except murderous lunatics would join the army if they knew just how corrupt it is. Manning became aware of this corruption. That organized corruption makes a mockery of the oath he took. Basically. the oath was already SHATTERED before he even joined the forces. He was doing his duty as a soldier in reporting this corruption. He was upholding his oath in doing this.

Or you could argue another way - the act that he blew the whistle on was clearly a violation of the rules of engagement. Nobody disputes that. Therefore, the illegal act was covering this up. There is no moral justification for keeping the lid on illegal acts. They are illegal for a reason. We have rules of engagement for a reason. They are not just lines of text, they represent the code of honor of the most advanced military the world has ever known. Key word here: Honor.
edit on 29-2-2012 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The crime is a matter of cold, black and white definition...

I find that the lack of an enemy having been named keeps it from being black or white. If you don't know who the enemy is, how can you be sure he aided them?



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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Manning is a patsy. That's what they do here. Blame it all on this soldier. Shame on American Army for this! They will be waiting for Ramadan to slaughter him.


edit on 29-2-2012 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-2-2012 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Neocrusader
 


Thank you for pointing this out, it seems some on this page are just so wrapped in the "service" mentality that they support murder for profit.

Manning was not violating his oath because he wasn't acting within his oath to begin with. No soldier in the middle east is acting on constitutional grounds. Our government hasn't respected what the constitution means to humanity for some time, I just wish some of those would just wake up and see this whole thing is a big bully game.

Dont ever piss us off or else.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It never ceases to amaze me how many people hold this traitor up as a hero or something.

For those that suddenly excuse deep and hardcore betrayl because you happen to like the results, consider this.

What group, cause or movement do YOU feel strongly enough about to give everything to and dedicate yourself to entirely. Is there one? Lets make this practical since it's really hard to say this with pure theory.

Lets say, for instance, We're talking Occupy. It could be the Tea Party..but I'll use Occupy for the example. How about, instead of this being Manning betraying the U.S. Army he joined, it's OWS. How about, someone in top leadership of OWS proper when it was still camped in Manhattan, had a serious change of heart? You haven't...OWS hasn't..but this one guy has a hardcore conscience issue for whatever reason, and he was a fully trusted person by all, right up to that point.

Now this person doesn't have the guts or class to announce to the rest of OWS that he's come to hate them....No. This person decides to stay right there. Contact the media..for whatever they can get out of it, to see every internal document and recordings of all the off-the-cuff discussions that happen between OWS leaders outside the GA circle.

Basically, due to the person's position and change of heart, they can and do sustain irreparable harm and damage to the movement and the individuals who TRUSTED this person with their cause and their very lives. It isn't hyperbole to anyone who was in that movement and in the camps. Life isn't an overstatement, either. Same logic applies.



So...... I'm a right leaning kind of guy. I ought to applaud the example inside the top levels of OWS turning traitor in-place and working to bring the whole thing down from within, right? Nope.... Despite many probably applauding such a person as brave and heroic...I'd see *THAT* person as being as filthy a traitor as Manning. Different sides...different ideology and RADICALLY different circumstances.

This isn't about all that though. This is about a simple, core issue. Trust and Honor. Manning showed he has absolutely NONE. ...and by the laws and regulations of the military he joined, by his own free choice, he should be tried, convicted and executed for it. It's the most basic principles involved here. Ideology isn't one of them at the heart of it.


Since you are soo keen to use analogies, try this one on for size...

Analogy #3

Top general for Hitler's army decides to spill the beans on the whole agenda early and Hitler gets assassinated before he could rise to power and make good on his agenda...

Is this general too a "filthy dirty rat" who has no "honor" or bla bla bla and needs to be shot dead by firing squad???

Or...

Does he get a pat on the back??


I don't think you thought your oath keeping, honor, loyalty, yes boss, yes sir, aye aye cap'n idea all the way through...




edit on 29-2-2012 by Sly1one because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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So whats the point if he dose get the NPP Obama got one just for showing up



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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He exposed crimes/wrong doings that the government was doing. I give him a pat on the back. He is a whistle blower, not treasonous.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
He exposed crimes/wrong doings that the government was doing. I give him a pat on the back. He is a whistle blower, not treasonous.

Crimes ..Perhaps. That isn't the point though, even if I do agree. In fairness, I actually *DO* agree on some of the material. DECADES worth of it, spanning at least 2 wars and a few smaller conflicts though? Do you actually believe he even KNEW what he was releasing? After all...it took entire staffs of people weeks to sort this stuff the first time around and rumor has it...Wiki has some of the most sensitive stuff still under wraps. (Did Manning REALLY stop at Secret/NOFORN level? Hmm..

Regardless though. This still comes down to one thing and ONLY one thing. There is nothing else involved, and that much will come hit little Manning between his eyes when he's sitting before the Judge in his Court Martial. That is simply this. Did he or did he NOT release classified information, in bulk quantity, outside the people authorized to view it? Yes. He did. Didn't he? Guilty. Period and that really *IS* the end of it. Everything else at his trial will be about context and maybe a stab at mitigating his acts for the sentence he does actually get.

I'm shocked by how many people are so emotionally hung up on how Wikileaks chose to use it and how Manning claims he was thinking when he did it. Who really CARES? He still walked into the tent, day in and day out, perhaps Saluting some and noding to others. A Smile to friends, I'm sure. All the while...KNOWING......KNOWING...he was betraying every last one of them, and would continue to as long as he could do it without being caught.

Vomit classified material AND TAKE CREDIT FOR IT, and you have the Pentagon Papers. Right or Wrong...it took guts to do that. Amen.

Vomit classified marterial and HIDE like a coward until they FINALLY ferret your sorry butt out by investigation and it isn't honorable, it's pathetic cowardice and I can think of no better description.

Perhaps if a couple people here have someone close betray them (outside of relationships) and see people badly hurt over it, attitudes may be a little different. It's amazing how living a situation can bring entirely new definition to a similar one in the news. Frankly, Bradley is awfully lucky he got off that base alive at all. THAT shows just how well disciplined the United States military really is. Any other Military...I'd have serious doubts about a man like him even living this long.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
That is simply this. Did he or did he NOT release classified information, in bulk quantity, outside the people authorized to view it? Yes. He did. Didn't he? Guilty. Period and that really *IS* the end of it.

You keep saying this but you are not making a good argument for this being treason. For his acts to be considered treason he has to aide the enemy. No enemy has been named.

In your opinion what enemy did he aide with the leaking of that information?



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Alright, he exposed crimes that a government was doing. That is whistle blowing. Whistle blowers should be protected by law regardless of the organization they blew the whistle on.

He didn't help the enemy from what I have seen, therefore not treason. When a government is doing criminal things, you have to take charge...not just let them lay down and rape you. If you are doing crimes with my tax money, I have every right to know and he had every right to tell.

Clearly you like crimes being covered up, which is a felony in most states, but only if the average joe does it...not the government bureaucrats.
edit on 29-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 

So maybe one or two pieces of evidence that indicate potential wrongdoing on the US military's part justify releasing thousands of documents and pieces of information that might assist the enemy in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, and in other places where this information can be used to kill more innocent people? I think it's premature to give this man an award and probably stupid.

Remember these're the same people who gave the nobel peace prize to Yasser Arafat. See link:
www.palestinefacts.org ...

If he had JUST leaked the heli video or pieces of evidence that were potentially incriminating then there would be much more widespread support of this man. The reason there isn't is because he's irresponsible. When someone acts like this, there're consequences. National security demands that the military enforces its laws. To not do anything gives others who might copy cat Bradley Manning the green light.

I feel sorry for Manning. He had a troubled past. In many ways, I feel like I have a lot in common. I am also a computer guy and grew up not fitting in. I know what it's like to feel bottled up inside. But I cannot accept him releasing so many documents so haphazardly. He should have known that he might be assisting bad people who do not have the lives of innocents on their mind. It seems to me that his troubled mind confused him and made him blow the lid off everything in a very sloppy way. He was desperate and rationalized it by telling himself that secrets (of the nature he worked with) should not be kept secret, regardless of whether they helped the enemy or not. He probably told himself that the benefits to society outweighed the risks of bad people having access to it. To his conflicted mind it made sense.

I personally feel he did not meet the requirements of his job psychologically.
edit on 29-2-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



Yeah... Others nominate him for a Peace Prize. I'll sit back and quietly hope a Military Trial nominates him for a firing squad or a good hanging.
Wow, and here we have the problem with "oaths" to one small group of people, without consideration for the greater population. It's the same thing with secret societies. They all protect each other and if one of them tries to expose the corruption and wrong doings of that group their fellow members will string them up or shoot them in the head, because they are "traitors". It's just sick. I prefer to call them messengers of the truth. Destroyers of lies. Builders of hope. Spreaders of love. Dismantlers of corruption. Get the hell over your corporate police state nation and try to see the bigger picture for once in your life.
edit on 29-2-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You ever been inside Wrabbit?
You talk pretty squeeky,,
This Manning fellow has a conscience.......and balls of pure brass......
The Assange dude is simply another leetch......manning did what his heart told him to do......
He not only kept his oath to the best a man could do, but now hes gonna maybe die for doing so.....You know hes gonna die a thousand times a day for the rest of his life probably......just to bring guys like us the real truth.....I aplaud that act...............!
I doubt many here have the same intestinal fortitude.......
Dont be so negative about a true patriotic unselfish act of love.......i dont think you really get it yet......
Peace bro...............s



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Some of us still have hold to honor..........no matter what the cost to their own life they will speak out the truth for those that are vicitimized.

Bradley Manning is a hero in my book.

Bush Jr. should be where Bradley Manning is not vice versa.

This is one crazy civilization where good is evil and evil is good.

Like Alice in Wonderland.

Mr. Manning simply let the world know officially what the planet already knows, America is a corporate run bully, hell bent on stealing the resources of other countries in the name of "Homeland Security and Liberty".



edit on 29-2-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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I will say this thread did generate some great opinions on the matter and for the most part is free of personal attack. I think Manning did violate his oaths and will spend the rest of his life in jail in some form of isolation.

BTW, I'll mention one thing that others did not. If Manning is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize he won't be at the banquet to collect it. The 500K award will be spent of his defense and appeal. My best,
edit on 29-2-2012 by airforce47 because: wrong word.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Hahahahaha! Didn't Obama won that prize? Wasn't Obama the President of the United States? Yeah, I thought so.

And for the "The Nobel Peace Prize folks are not exactly USA-huggers" , why is it so? Is it that USA is a war mongering country? Why an organization such as Nobel PEACE Prize would love an aggressive nation? (not that i believe what you stated is true, see the first paragraph)

I love you FlyersFan and Wrabbit2000, you are my true inspiration.

Peace out.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Anyway.. There is the official Oath he took according to Uncle Sam and the legal code. He gave Oath to his nation, his President and his Commanding Officer. He betrayed all 3.


I think if I had access to such data and saw what govt is doing, I would have done my best to pass it to Wikileaks. He betrayed President and Commanding Officer? Fine. They both are nothing more than puppets of the elites. And you say that he betrayed his nation? What about the same President and Commanding Officer betraying mankind by remotely bombing innocents? And some say that the info might have helped the enemies to gain vital knowledge. LOL. Even thought what your president and commanding officers are doing?

And how good is an "official Oath" and "legal code" under which you have to participate in mass killing directly or indirectly? When you can't even have the damn guts to tell to the nation what you are really doing behind the curtains to the people on some other land?

If I saw what was happening and remained silent, I would have killed my own soul and submitted it to the elites like most of them already have.

edit on 29-2-2012 by morpheusxxz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Sly1one
 


Star for you man! I couldn't have said better.

Peace out.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by airforce47
I will say this thread did generate some great opinions on the matter and for the most part is free of personal attack. I think Manning did violate his oaths and will spend the rest of his life in jail in some form of isolation.


Since no one has the nads to push for a good hanging.



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