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Obama administration plan would kill rival bird to save spotted owl

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posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Obama administration plan would kill rival bird to save spotted owl

To save the imperiled spotted owl, the Obama administration is moving forward with a controversial plan to shoot barred owls, a rival bird that has shoved its smaller cousin aside.

The plan is the latest federal attempt to protect the northern spotted owl, the passive, one-pound bird that sparked an epic battle over logging in the Pacific Northwest two decades ago.

...



The hubris demonstrated by this example of ecosystem management is beyond belief.. :shk:

Am I the only one who thinks this is the height of arrogance? In most contexts, if one species diminishes at the successful presence of another, does it really make sense to intentionally eliminate the prevailing species?

edit on 28-2-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Okay, so did anyone ask the other Owls how they feel about being shot to death so others may live?


This is totally absurd. Indeed. The only thing I think Obama is trying to save by this one is the endangered VOTE represented in animal rights activists in the Pacific Northwest. Perhaps he sees those states running close? Hmm... There sure is no other logic that explains such willful meddling with what any half way intelligent person would clearly see is evolution in action. Ugh..



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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They need the spotted owl for their bohemian grove rituals.

It's just not creepy enough if they switch to pigeons.
edit on 28-2-2012 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


This isn't some crazy idea by Obama....this sort of thing goes on all of the time! For instance on Faulkner Island many Black-crowned Night-Herons have been killed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service because the herons prey on the young of the federally endangered Roseate Tern.

Killing one species that isn't endangered in order to save another species that is, is actually quite common.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 


I am quite aware of the frequency of this type of endangered species management.

The approach is about as wrong headed as any government policy can get.


Knuckle heads..



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Yes, when species are put at a disadvantage because of interference of humans.

At this point there is nothing natural about managed forests. So now natural resources have to act like an artifical balance.

Understand a little more about forest and ecology management before making such statements.

The barred owl is coveres all of North America. It will be fine.

edit on 29-2-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Now THIS is what i call affirmative action !!! Killing out one species to promote another....Sounds to me like the Obama administration plan across the board !!!



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by loam

The hubris demonstrated by this example of ecosystem management is beyond belief.. :shk:

Am I the only one who thinks this is the height of arrogance? In most contexts, if one species diminishes at the successful presence of another, does it really make sense to intentionally eliminate the prevailing species?

edit on 28-2-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)


They aren't going to eliminate the barred owls - they don't want any species to be eliminated - that's why they are giving the spotted owl a chance to survive. Geez, the ignorance here is beyond belief...



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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I guess they can only shoot them to a point less they become protected themselves.

Then the government will have to find something else to shoot to save the both of them.

If the government wasnt some monstrous blood-thirsty irrational war-mongering psychopathic entity this would all be very funny. But since government is all of those things and more I'll just say: Hail lord government!



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 



Originally posted by nixie_nox
Understand a little more about forest and ecology management before making such statements.

The barred owl is coveres all of North America. It will be fine.



Perhaps you should take your own advice.

The point is not that this policy threatens barred owls, but that it insufficiently addresses why spotted owls (or any species in decline for that matter) are in decline in the first place.

This style of ecosystem management just makes a bigger mess of things.

Without fully understanding and addressing the reasons for a species' decline, you will still likely lose that species and materially impact many others by the arrogant removal of the ones that actually succeed in the present environment but you think are a problem.


In the end, it will make matters much worse, not better.

reply to post by kaylaluv
 



Originally posted by kaylaluv
Geez, the ignorance here is beyond belief...


Indeed. Perhaps you should reconsider your position.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com... ml?tid=pm_pop

The latest plan for spotted owls was accompanied by a presidential memorandum directing Interior to take a number of steps before the plan is finalized, including providing clear direction for how logging can be conducted within areas designated as critical habitat and conducting an economic analysis at the same time critical habitat areas are proposed.

Salazar and other officials stressed the new plan’s job-creation component, noting that for the first time logging would be allowed in areas designated as critical habitat for the owl. Previous plans had prohibited logging in areas designated as critical habitat.



Well, now we have a new Presidential memorandum providing clear direction how logging can be conducted in critical habitat areas that includes an economic analysis. An economic analysis of what exactly? I smell bs all over this.

New logging jobs in areas designated as critical habitat sound like risky business, but that's OK we can trust our government now can't we? A Presidential memorandum providing clear direction on how to conduct logging in critical habitat. This is scary.

The upside is the potential for more critical habitat areas:



The American Forest Resource Council, a timber industry group, was skeptical that so-called ecological logging would produce a significant amount of timber or jobs. At the same time, the plan has the potential to double the amount of acres designated as critical habitat, said Tom Partin, the group’s president.



Which probably means less National Forests because the logging is destroying the critical habitats.


It's not really about saving/destroying owls, it's about money.


The new plan, which replaces a 2008 Bush administration plan that was tossed out in federal court, affects millions of acres of national, state and private forest land in Washington, Oregon and Northern California.


So, you get the picture? We are talking about logging in millions of acres of forest land. Sweet deal, not.


Obama is playing God with the owls and dictator with these damn Presidential memorandums.
edit on 2/29/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: add link



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by loam
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Originally posted by nixie_nox
Understand a little more about forest and ecology management before making such statements.
The barred owl is coveres all of North America. It will be fine.



Originally posted by loam

Perhaps you should take your own advice.


I do, as you will notice by my next response.


The point is not that this policy threatens barred owls,


I didn't say it did, I said the owl will be fine.


but that it insufficiently addresses why spotted owls (or any species in decline for that matter) are in decline in the first place.


Um, that would be from competition from the barred owl, the whole reason you started the thread in the first place.

Also because of habitat loss, which is also the debate surrounding the spotted owl in the first place.



This style of ecosystem management just makes a bigger mess of things.


How so?

Now for the real conspiracy here:

The mess has already been made. It was heavy logging that put the spotted owl in decline in the first place.
Bush sided with the lumber companies to increase logging in those areas by 22%. Fortunately it has been repeatedly shot down in the courts.

The real conspiracy here isn't the removal of the barred owl, it is the logging.
For one, the lumbar companies are now arguing that if there isn't a spotted owl, there is no longer a reason to protect the forest. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sneaking in and poisoning the birds. JMO.
And until logging companies have their way and have decimated that forest, this controversy will never stop.



Without fully understanding and addressing the reasons for a species' decline, you will still likely lose that species and materially impact many others by the arrogant removal of the ones that actually succeed in the present environment but you think are a problem.


Again, the reason for decline was stated in your own source. Loss of habitat and competition by the barred owl. The same habitat that has caused controversy for 25 years.I mean, seriously?

Anywhoo, not all owls are being shot:


In addition to shooting hundreds of barred owls, the new plan calls for their non-lethal removal by capturing and relocating them or placing in them in permanent captivity.

link


Now for the real conspiracy here, the barred owl is the least of the problems. The DOI wasn't developed to protect resources but to make them federal lands to exploit them.

From your source:


better managing forests, officials can give communities, foresters and land managers in three states important tools to promote healthier and more productive forests, Salazar said.



A plan announced Tuesday would designate habitat considered critical for the bird’s survival, while allowing logging to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfire and to create jobs.



memorandum directing Interior to take a number of steps before the plan is finalized, including providing clear direction for how logging can be conducted within areas designated as critical habitat and conducting an economic analysis at the same time critical habitat areas are proposed.


This is about money.

This memorandum is just a bandaid to make it look like the spotted owl is being protected to cover up the fact that they want to log these areas.

Wild and forest fires ARE nature's way of keeping forests healthy but clearing out overgrowth. To "manage" forests to prevent fires IS artifically maintaining an ecology. Using the prevention of wildfire is an excuse to log. As they would rather sell the trees and make money then have nature wipe them out naturally.

This is a sad movement. Logging doesn't provide that many jobs. This administration is trying to balance economy and ecology.


The plan affects more than 24 million acres of forest land in Washington, Oregon and Northern California.


There is the cheddar.






edit on 29-2-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


Ah, I got a phone call while posting and you beat me to the punch. But yea, this stinks.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


How funny! Well, I'm glad some else sees what's going down.

I just found an article about Bush's failed attempt to do the same. It's worth a read:
www.science.siu.edu...


"To be in compliance with (The Endangered species Act) you have to have a recovery plan based on the best available science," he said. "The peer review said it's not based on the best available science. Either they follow up on that problem or it will take some Congressional action."



and

The plans were also reviewed independently by The Wildlife Society, a leading professional organization of wildlife biologists, which also found the recovery plan so deeply flawed that it should be scrapped and a new one developed from scratch.



Hopefully, the Wildlife Society will have some influence/input in this decision before any action transpires.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by loam


The hubris demonstrated by this example of ecosystem management is beyond belief.. :shk:

Am I the only one who thinks this is the height of arrogance? In most contexts, if one species diminishes at the successful presence of another, does it really make sense to intentionally eliminate the prevailing species?


My answer: DUH!
thats why YOU are not in politics....
....

Joking aside - NO. I fail to see the logic here.

STAY OUT OF NATURE'S AFFAIRS...lest you want ~NATURE~ to "manage" you...

Thank you,


ThatGuy45



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Owls are put on this Earth to help control pest population for man's benefit.

The bigger the Owl the more pests they devour. Will these enviro-wackos own the next rodent caused virus?

The spotted owl has always been an environmentalist wacko favorite. I remember previous controversies surrounding this species.
edit on 29-2-2012 by Carseller4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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We have a similar problem in the UK with introduced species, like Grey squirels and crayfish in rivers.



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by EnigmaAgent
We have a similar problem in the UK with introduced species, like Grey squirels and crayfish in rivers.


It's crawfish. And who could ever complain about crawfish...they are very tasty!



posted on Feb, 29 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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They should put one spotted own and one barred owl in a cage death match for survival of the species. Winner take all.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Carseller4
Owls are put on this Earth to help control pest population for man's benefit.

The bigger the Owl the more pests they devour. Will these enviro-wackos own the next rodent caused virus?

The spotted owl has always been an environmentalist wacko favorite. I remember previous controversies surrounding this species.
edit on 29-2-2012 by Carseller4 because: (no reason given)


You just always post out of your arse?

Or just looking for a chance to call environmentalists wackos without reading the source or the explanations in this very SHORT thread?

And if you HAD read the thread instead of coming on here to call people names, you would of known that the other controversies surrounding the spotted owl have been discussed.





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