Incompetent People Too Ignorant to Know It

reply to post by Sparky63


I can relate to what you say, but on the other side.

I once went in for a job interview and told the man up front I had done some of the same type work but on a limited scale. He told me he knew my old boss before that plant shut down, and if I could work for him, I should fit right in wt his place.

We talked for a while and agreed on pay and jobs to be done.

Then he tells me. "You know, everyguy I have working out here is a f****ng idiot. Not one of these people knows their @$$ from a hole in the ground."


Some how that made my appreciate being hired by this guy even more.. (Not really)

I like to think that atleast I may have raised the cumulative plant IQ by a very little bit. ha ha ha

reply to post by NoHierarchy


I wanted to thank you for your post with the wiki link to the Dunning–Kruger effect. While I myself posted a quote in this thread about the impact of this "effect" on our society, I had not been aware of the information that you linked to. Reading through it, I gained some insight and for that, I thank you.

So... if idiots don't know they're idiots how do you know who's not an idiot even if you're reading posts claiming idiots are ingorant of their idiocy?

Who can you trust if you can't even trust yourself?

Originally posted by Floydshayvious
So... if idiots don't know they're idiots how do you know who's not an idiot even if you're reading posts claiming idiots are ingorant of their idiocy?

Who can you trust if you can't even trust yourself?

edit on 29-2-2012 by Floydshayvious because: (no reason given)

You can trust the climate scientists....oh wait, never mind.
You can trust politicians....uh,scratch that one.
You can trust religious leaders...LOL.
You can trust corporations to do what's right...just kidding.
Trust me...

Trust no one.

Originally posted by Maxmars

We pick leaders who swear their 'severe' competence (to coin a phrase) and we allow ourselves to become their 'followers.' But even if they believe it... it doesn't mean they are correct... and frankly, they wouldn't know either way.

The ultimate takeaway of the research is the reminder that you really may not be as great as you think you are. And you might not be right about the things you believe you're right about. And if you try to joke about all this, you might not come off as funny as you think.

Good topic

First of all, that first sentence that I quoted sums up many of the problems we're facing in this country today. The blind leading the blind and it's that way by choice. It reminds me of that old Pearl Jam song "Better man" We the people are woman in bed with that guy, the system, simply because we can't find a "better man." We've settled. But there are some of us who've woken up to that fact and "settling" simply isn't an option anymore. We want to be better on an intellectual level.

So what happens after we "wake up?" Well, since the system has been in place for so long now, abruptly leaving may be too much of a shock to that system to be an option. So we keep the system alive, functioning, by playing the game while we both know that it's just a farce. We do our own things seperatly, but still technically together. It's an emotional divorce with the real thing on the horizon. The only way to make sure that the change happens is to slowly implement a new system. This is something you have to put your emotions into. And if that means using the current one to do that, then so be it. ( While keeping the old system on a business level sweetheart.....YOU taught me that

The second paragraph is what leads me to believe that this psychological study of intellect could have been done better. Maybe by not putting the psychological aspect into a clinical study. This is best learned by personal experience, and my personal experience tells me that ignorant people know what their limitations are. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that they're walking in cirlces drooling on themselves. Way back when I was a prick about everything I used to patronize certain people. Stupid people aren't so stupid that they can't see that. Trust me. It got me in more than my share of fights.

And last but not least, I really don't see the connection between the intellectual study and the humor study. It's as if the last part, the humor part, was put in at the last minute because it was an inside joke that someone wanted to make public. Remember, I used to patronize people quite a bit. I know it when I see it.

Call me stupid but I don't get it. (Get it? )

The OP's point is well taken. It is a huge problem. It is similar to the "Peter Principle" by which people are promoted to a position one step beyond their level of competence. It's like a systemic flaw that eventually leads to a time when all important positions are occupied by incompetent people.

It is aggravated by things like nepotism and cronyism. No society can withstand this trend toward incompetence at the top.

If a competent person makes it to the top, it is really fluky.

It might be the reason there is such an attempt made to dumb down the electorate, to bring them more into line with their leaders.

There is only one solution. Smart people have to be even smarter.

There used to be a bearded bum who lurked on the Yonge St. strip in Toronto. His name was Joseph Smolij (sp. ?). He was a well known speed chess champ in town who was rarely beaten. Once in a while some smooth quiet student from Ryerson or U of T would beat him but that was rare.

I was watching him demolish someone one night when he looked up from the board and said something I'll never forget. He said: "Good idea, no good. Need a better one!"

Smart people have got to get smarter, kinder, nicer, politer and develop their senses of humour. If they do, we have hope.

there are known knowns
known unknowns
and unknown unknowns

these last are what we are here for
things that we dont know we dont know

whoever put mental agility comparison to a sliding scale (I.Q. test) was appealling to simpletons

We pick leaders who swear their 'severe' competence (to coin a phrase) and we allow ourselves to become their 'followers.' But even if they believe it... it doesn't mean they are correct... and frankly, they wouldn't know either way.

Except the reality is that while people may not agree with the policies or stance of our politicians, the truth is that these folks are actually quite intelligent. To suggest that they are so "ignorant" so as not to know it is ludicrous. Even the most reviled, annoying politician has a VASTLY greater knowledge of "what is going on" in regards to events, laws, and the state of the country, more so than your average citizen.

You may hate 'em.. but I think this study does not pertain to the majority of our leaders.

There is no such thing as an idiot - there are just humans of varying intelligence.

I read and have been exposed to a tremendous number of things so usually I have a very unique take on situations and can give pretty good advice. That doesnt make me a better person just a smarter one.

Yes sometimes when I see an illegal with that vacant stare on there face as is common in so cal I can't help but think durrrrr but I try not to behave as such.

Or the people that tell me they would do anything for there kids even die but are unable to be a decent husband to keep there family together and work things out.

there are all kinds of what could be called idiocy but the truth is we are all human there arent any idiots only a scale of inteligence and someone has to be at the bottom of every bell curve.

Here's a thought:

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.... you can, however, fool yourself forever.

If you believe in God, you're an idiot.

That should be if you don't believe in God. Would be consistent with being an idiot for not believing the official 9/11 conspiracy, etc etc.

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by Iwinder

Good thread and I am wondering if this "No child left behind" or nobody fails and everyone gets a trophy just for being here today has anything to do with these findings.

I totally agree with your comment and was once bashed by a group of my co-workers for telling them I wouldn't lie to my kids and tell them they were "winners" or "special" if they were not. They thought that I would be a cruel parent, but I argued that it would be more cruel to spend a lifetime encouraging a child who is tone deaf that they sound amazing and will be a world famous singer one day. If they planned on becoming a professsional singer, based on the lies, it would be devastating for them to learn the truth years later and have their dreams shattered. Also, they would probably have less motivation and dedication to keep improving because they already think they are the best and become lazy, a bad quality for anyone.

It's better to tell people when they are losers or lacking and give them the encouragement to do better and work harder, than give out trophies for failing. I feel like that is the main cause of failure in the American political and business systems, no one is holding Congress or CEOs responsible for failure.

You shouldn't walk away with millions of dollars, prizes, or lifetime pensions when you fail, it provides no incentive to succeed and do better.

The worst part is this attitude is systemic to the whole US population.

edit on 29-2-2012 by MaryStillToe because: (no reason given)

In my opinion to lose and lose big time is good, to fail and fail big time is good.

I remember when I was about 7 years old and my Dad was soldering some wires for his ham kit and he told me flat out don't touch that soldering iron because it is hot.

I did touch it and to this day I have that scar on my thumb, to lose is humbling and a definite help when it come to your ego.

You learn your limitations and at the same time realize that there will always be better and more proficient people than you and don't think you own the world.

I lost to that soldering iron but I did learn that I am not a fire walker nor can I ever hope to be fire resistant, unlike some of those stupid U tube videos showing kids lighting themselves on fire...



Regards, Iwinder

Stupid people who think they are clever are VERY dangerous !
(Remember Dubya ?)

Originally posted by femalepharoe
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

goodness how true.

when it comes to conversations (especially on here) I believe that people are talking "two different languages" because the "incompetent" people are too afraid to listen and UNDERSTAND your point because that may infact cause them to think differently.

Ignorance , though blissful, is surely dangerous.

So is knowledge, is it not?

Originally posted by Azadok

Originally posted by lonegurkha
Well here it is morning and here is this thread. I'm about to drive to work and get a graphic demonstration of the truth of your thread.
People will cut me off, look me right in the eye and pull out in front of me. They'll be in a hurry and and pass me even though I'm doing the speed limit or a little over. They'll pull out to pass me with oncoming traffic very close and cause the other driver to almost go off the road. They will park illegally and cause a problem by blocking the road and on and on.

Driving isn't rocket science, but people just don't know the rules of the road.

As Forrest Gump said"Stupid is as stupid does".

Your mistaking ignorance with rudeness, these people are not ignorant of the law of the road they just don't care about others and that is entirely different . The younger generation seems to be all about themselves not caring for any others but focusing on how fastest to gain their objectives regardless of who they hurt long their goal.

I live in the northeast and for the most part kids today have appalling behavior and very little etiquette . Like the study suggests they do not even see this as a problem because today is all about me me me as fast as possible for instant gratification.

edit on 29-2-2012 by Azadok because: Because iPads and fat fingers with bad eyes don't mix.

I live in the northeast too and I'm not talking about young drivers that is an entirely different topic. I'm talking about older people who should know better. I am quite clear on the difference between rude and stupid. If they look you in the eye and still pull out and cut you off then they are not rude they are stupid. They clearly saw you coming and still pulled out, that is stupid. I could go on about the young idiots all day. I've been driving for 40 years as of this june and I've seen my share of stupid people on the road. I've driven all around this country and this is not confined just to the northeast, It's everywhere.

The one that the young folks do that makes me laugh is when they pass me going at least 20 over the limit and then make it to the red light up the road and have to stop anyway. I always end up next to them laughing. Now that's stupid!

I wonder where The real "Rain Man" would fall in? He could look at a pile of toothpicks and "see" how many there are in an instant. Tell me how smart / dumb that is?

Careful about judging others by our standards.

reply to post by Maxmars

I have been saying this is various forms for years and appreciate this opportunity to say it again; Most Human Beings In America Appear To Be Are Devolving. I have a few explanations for it which I dare not express but after my visit to Russia and Central Europe, I came home to be stunned when I noticed just how Ugly, Slow and Down Right Dumb Americans have become. Sure, there are exceptions and they stand out like peas on a plate of brown rice or pinto beans if you like. In my business, the fight is to fined people who are not dysfunctions, who know how to dress and hardest of all is finding people who can carry on an intelligent conversation where their English is understandable. Fat, Ugly and Ignorant is how I would describe most Americans and here in Southern California, I would add "Short".

reply to post by intrptr

That was only in the movie "Dummy".

Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by AlonzoTyper
Please explain to me how this is some new break through............

This is tantamount to tone deaf people not realizing they're horrible at singing.

Why bother to waste your time attempting to explain "color" to a blind person?

... But the ability to make a judgement, carry out a process, or create and apply a concept is a different matter entirely ...