Michael Moore should leave America., page 2


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reply posted on 20-9-2004 @ 10:42 PM by EnronOutrunHomerun
Originally posted by Quicksilver
and enron how does europe have more self respect then the USA please clarify that for me cause i woudl really liek to knwo.

I meant self-respect in less a literal and more a figurative sense...meaning they have more ample cause and desire to reflect on a longer heritage - in general I've found that they have a greater self-awareness and less need to skip the corners, but rather cut straight ot the point...Perhaps "self-respect" was a poor choice of words...

As I said - I've lived there and visited since then fairly often - I don't know where you live or if you've been overseas...but all I can say is that the generalized difference in the people's attitudes and reactions strikes you just as equally as the similiarities do - it's something I can't put into words and I'm sure others have said it far better, but at the core, it's a feeling or overall assessment that I have come away with...

Of course these are just generalizations...I realize the immediate implications of calling group A's social standards and culture far different than group B's simply b/c their primary difference is a language and a few thousand miles of water as seperation....but all I can say in defense is it's the truth to me and many other friends and family members who have spent time in Europe...

EDIT: Just to clarify my opinion...
Simply put...their differences in reaction and socialization are what I immedieately recognize, remember, respect and desire to eventually be around permanintly...much the opposite can be said for how I would best generlize Americans, and I mean that with as much respect that one American can say that to his fellow Americans with...


[Edited on 9/20/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]


reply posted on 21-9-2004 @ 10:30 AM by lmgnyc
Originally posted by Herman
So, because Michael Moore uses the freedom our government provides to talk about how much he can't stand America and our government, that makes him the ideal American? Unless you're talking about literally the land of America, our government is America. America is our congress, our president, our laws, our economic systems, our people. Because Michael Moore is using his freedom to call Americans stupid, it means that he's the ideal American? "The dumbest Canadian is smarter than the smartest America". "The dumbest Frenchman is smarter than the smartest American" "The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American". Yeah, he really respects our people. The only reason he stays in America is so that he can capitalize off of the bashing of that very system. Like I said, he shouldn't be forced to leave America, he shouldn't be told that he's not American, I just think that if he thinks so lowly of America, then I see no reason why he should stay other than that he just wants to make money, and he knows this is the place where he can make the most.



Moore uses satire to get his point across and used IN CONTEXT, these comment were pretty funny. I am an American and I too, laugh/am amazed/am annoyed at some of the really stupid things my fellow Americans do and believe. Is Chris Rock a racist because he makes politically incorrect jokes about black people? Bill Maher uses satire and pokes fun at Americans--should he leave the country too? Are we all supposed to be automatons that believe the same thing? If something is going wrong with the system, shoud we silently pack our stuff and move to another country?

BTW, most of the "Anti-American" soundbites attributed to Moore are taken out of context--he will write a whole chapter making a case for his argument and those that oppose him will pick out the last sentence of his rant and "Americans are gullable!" will be repeated ad naseaum. Isn't taking these out of context one of the things that his critics feel make him a dangerous and stupid man?

Moore has enraged the NRA and the right--and they are striking back with their own propaganda. If you actually read his stuff, watch his films, hear him speak and are still insulted, then you are entitled to your opinion, but getting your facts from extremely biased books like Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man (which I have read and found to be mostly misleading and inaccurate--one point--his luxury apartment in Manhattan? Well, the average price of a modest, 1000 sq ft. 2 bedroom apartment in his neighborhood is over $1 million. It's not as if he is living with manservants, chandeliers, and has a sprawling view. In Manhattan, a million dollars buys you a box with 8 ft ceilings and a view of a brick wall. Because he is in the film business, he has to live in NY or LA, both are equally expensive.) makes you a victim of propaganda as well. I disagree with some of Moore's tactics and we differ on some of the issues, but I don't consider him to be dangerous or a traitor.

As with everything presented in the media, he is showing his side of the story. Of course it is biased. Foxnews is biased. Newsweek is biased. CBS is biased. Every media outlet has some kind of bias. And as with everything presented in the media, do your own research by taking in all sides of the story and then make your own decisions. Without people in this country with differing opinions, there would be no debate and we would never really know the truth. The people I would worry about are those that are trying to suppress the other side of the story, not those trying to tell it.


reply posted on 22-9-2004 @ 03:43 PM by Herman
Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Originally posted by Herman
Again...."The dumbest Frenchman is smarter than the smartest American." He thinks lowly of us as well

Some comments, such as the one above, are not always to be taken so seriously. Many times they are taken out of context, just like they accuse more of doing - it's a dog eat dog approach to deflating common sense...

If I were to say in a public setting..."Whatever you do, don't go to France! Those slime bags are a bunch of idiots! But I'm an idiot myself, so I love it..." That stupid statement I just came up with off the top of my head could be twisted to make me mean something completley different - all it would take would be me saying it once, and if I were famous and let that slip for some odd reason then that's all I would be known for by those that never liked me in the first place - and without being immediatley availale for comment to these people, my words would come to represent my actions regardless of what people thought of me...

Fame is a fickle thing that most people out of the limelight cannot comprehend...not that I'm in it...but just imagine the things you do and say everyday being put into a different context and being analyzed by people all over the world...are we really any different than Michael Moore at the primal level? I don't think so...


I understand your point, but I think that him saying that statement, but in three different countries sort of clarifies his position. "The dumbest Canadian is smarter than the smartest American", "The dumbest Frenchman is smarter than the smartest American",and "The dumbest brit here is smarter than the smartest American". Mulder, if you don't see why I think he thinks lowly of Americans...don't bother trying anymore


reply posted on 23-9-2004 @ 03:38 PM by Herman
Originally posted by torque
I don't think he's attacking the system, I think he's attacking Americans. He needs to feel superior, like he knows something nobody else does because he's so smart and we're all so stupid. That kind of arrogance annoys me. It happens here a lot too with people spouting off about something and including the opinion that if anyone doesn't think the same thing they are stupid or missing the point. Irritating.

I think Moore is a jerk who is incredibly self-serving. He manipulates information and images to conform to his own beliefs instead of giving the whole story. The master of "out of context". I agree with Herman. Not saying anyone should -make- him leave, but if he feels America is so bad, he'd no doubt be happier somewhere else. That is, until he finds enough stuff to rip on there for money, and then he'd be happier in yet ANOTHER country.


Yeah, I do agree. He seems to think that anyone who doesn't agree with him is just ignorant or something. It happened to me at school when I was arguing with some of my friends (most of my friends are all liberal). My friend would say "Dude, all you ever do is like put down my points, you never offer any of yours!" Then he tries to talk over me everytime I say something. I brought up like a million points, went on for about a minute of all the good things of the point I was arguing, and when I was done he just repeated his f-ing statement!!!!!!!!! Now matter how many times I present the evidence that proves them wrong, they still won't admit it. Then they just wind up saying that I'm being ignorant or something. People like that make me mad. I respect their opinions, but they can't respect mine.

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