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Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by rwfresh
Metaphoric language is a clouding tool. It is both a need and a hindrance.
Can you give us some of your suppositions on finding truth?edit on 28-2-2012 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by oak123
as far as i'm concerned
the Truth is Love
Originally posted by somerandomuser
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by somerandomuser
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by somerandomuser
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by somerandomuser
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by somerandomuser
I think you will find that the universe is structured in such a manner as to prevent experimental knowledge of what exactly it is. At the quantum level, after a certain resolution, particles are to big to image reality any further. At a cosmic level, we could never reach the edge of the universe.
So, we are encapsulated within this structure.
That may suggest that it is either unimportant, or vital that we do not know, at this stage.
It also suggests that our context is not the best/adequate. But i would posit that individuals have successfully moved themselves into a context that allowed for understanding and expression of the Truth.
I think they can only move themselves to a position of conjecture. We are restricted to thinking of the universe in terms of what we already know. There is nothing to suggest that such limitations apply outside our universe, thus our knowledge of what reality is, or even what we are, could be very wrong.
Every proof is conjecture unless we experience the truth ourselves. Otherwise it is belief. So if someone claims to know or be the Truth we would have to conduct the experiment ourselves to understand the proof. Otherwise we are just making assumptions about what is real.
I posted with OP because i think most people don't even have a hypothesis of Truth and so never attempt to prove it. But some people have had the hypothesis, have attempted and some claim to have proven it. But just because we don't understand the proof doesn't mean it ain't True.
You seem to be suggesting, as "you" are the only truth, that the only real thing of importance in this universe is your personal development.
The rest is just a distraction to help you cope.
What i am suggesting is the only thing that is real is Truth. The statement is obvious in it's meaning but infinitely difficult to accept. It's difficult to accept because no one can claim to know the Truth and yet it's the only thing that exists.
I am suggesting that "seeking" or personal development is delusion. Assuming the ultimate goal of seeking or personal development is to experience the Truth, it would stand to reason that ego is completely incapable of ever achieving that goal. So the entire process of seeking or discovering Truth is delusional. Unless we realize the only thing that can experience Truth and Reality is Truth.
truth/tro͞oTH/
Noun:
The quality or state of being true: "the truth of her accusation".
That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality: "tell me the truth".
re·al, real/ˈrē(ə)l/, /rāˈäl/
Adjective:
Actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed:
re·al·i·ty/rēˈalətē/
Noun:
The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: "he refuses to face reality".
So what is the universe? Even science is starting to come around the idea that the "Universe" doesn't actually exist.
Who am I? "I" in the most common use of the word, is as unreal as the "Universe" i claim to exist in. hahaha
You are contradicting yourself. You said:
And i would suggest that you, not the illusion, is Truth and nothing else.
then you said:
Unless we realize the only thing that can experience Truth and Reality is Truth.
So, which is it?
What is Right to me, could be Wrong to you, and by who's authority are our opinions judged? The Creator's, and since the Creator gave us free will to discover ourselves in the most exciting way, he created both the "Right" option and the "Wrong" option and therefore one is no better than the other.
Originally posted by refused
There is definitely an ultimate Truth, and I believe it's an extension from the simple Truth that we are all One. That the "Prime Creator" did not create an existence outside of itself and separate from itself, because that is impossible, but in fact that the existence of reality itself is embedded IN the creator and therefore we ARE god. It is impossible to do otherwise because that which is Not God is still God because Not God cannot exist without God. This applies to good and evil, too. One does not exist without the other; Yin and Yang. This is just the result of the Truth, not the Truth itself.
We are sections of god, Souls, experiencing our-self subjectively in an environment where we don't remember what we truly are so we can achieve some sort of arbitrary perspective. And consciousness is the very link and stream to our Souls, and by implication to the Source Creator, since our Souls are extensions of Source. If you think about it, consciousness can create anything. Ideas, physical objects, emotions, experiences, just like a "god" would. Collective consciousness can transform the universe. The Truth must have something to do with Love, because Love is the most joyful, purest emotion we can feel. It would make sense that "joy" is the goal of our Souls, as opposed to the temptation of the "devil", because pure joy IS heaven! Pure joy cannot be achieved by harming others, however, because that is not an act of Love. Therefore this is not an excuse to do whatever you want at the cost of others.
The opposite of Love would be Fear (not hate or evil, as these emotions are the result of Fear. Fear of death, Fear of not knowing the Truth I suppose [that we are One, and what happens to you, happens to ME, because I AM YOU experiencing reality from a different perspective.]). So the ultimate Truth would be to exist as pure love, as opposed to pure hate, the polar opposite. Therefore the Truth is probably just the implication of real unity and love realized. Total peace and tranquility.
Heaven doesn't exist, because reality exists IN heaven (pure energy at its most primitive form is the essence of the Creator and is positive, Love, because Love feels good and Fear feels bad and an all-powerful God would not create a sandbox of reality in an energy sea of Fear. Therefore, Hell also doesn't exist. These are the results of the personification of God, forcing the concept of human traits onto the Creator of human traits was humanity's biggest mistake. The real Creator knows pure, unconditional Love, and OUR will is ITS will, because we ARE IT. Therefore, the ultimate goal of life is to be the best at what you decide your purpose is. And if you are aligned with All That Is (existence itself; god) then your ultimate goal would be to be pure Love (or joy).
Originally posted by Sci-Fi_entist
I have always thought that an "ultimate" truth would consist of all perceptions and conceptions of reality, be they objective or subjective in nature. This is because I think all perceptions and conceptions combined form the totality of truth in an experienced existence. Therefore, any knowable "ultimate" truth would necessarily incorporate all objective and subjective perceptions, thought forms, conceptual constructs made manifest in thought, physical reality or theorem.
Basically, all that can be known, imagined and created combines to form the ultimate truth.
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by tetra50
You asked, "what say you?" And I say this: The problem with the seeking of truth (and yes, I believe there is one, and only one, not defined by post modernistic existentialistic, depends on what you are experiencing, although taking that into account in the seeking of it) is what we use to define it. Our experience of "reality" is primarily defined through our five senses, both defined and limited by our physical bodies. And of these senses, Sight, or empirical evidence, is what we put the most "faith" in. I put faith in quotes, because faith has another interesting perspective in what you have outlined here. Faith, at least as defined in the Bible, is a suspension of belief, a suspension, really, of facts and empirical evidence and sociological and political perspective ( in other words, others' opinions) to what you "know" (feel) to be the truth, without anything to prove it.
But that is a whole other topic.
Yes, there is truth. However, we live in times where we must be savvy as to how we define it, and understanding of the complexity of technology that can both make us see whatever it is wished we see, but inculcate us to believe in what we are surrounded by and bombarded by on a daily basis, in order to inform and construct our opinion of what "truth" is....
I think you are on to something. On that note.. I have faith that the only thing of value is Truth because everything else outside of Truth is in fact not true.. fake.. not real. So it really does not deserve any attention.
If we read a 1000 books of lies, watch a million tv shows full of deception and read a million delusional webpages we are no closer to the Truth. No further away.. but definitely no closer to it.
I like the word faith. I am not afraid of it. It's a great word. Totally misunderstood. Faith is knowing in action. I agree with you that it is definitely not belief. Belief is belief and faith is something else.
It is not possible to know anything but Truth. To know anything but Truth is delusion. So faith would be knowing (the Truth) in action. Since it is not possible to prove the Truth, only experience it or rather be it.. we would need a word for that kind of event. Faith.. good word.
Originally posted by tetra50
Originally posted by rwfresh
Originally posted by tetra50
You asked, "what say you?" And I say this: The problem with the seeking of truth (and yes, I believe there is one, and only one, not defined by post modernistic existentialistic, depends on what you are experiencing, although taking that into account in the seeking of it) is what we use to define it. Our experience of "reality" is primarily defined through our five senses, both defined and limited by our physical bodies. And of these senses, Sight, or empirical evidence, is what we put the most "faith" in. I put faith in quotes, because faith has another interesting perspective in what you have outlined here. Faith, at least as defined in the Bible, is a suspension of belief, a suspension, really, of facts and empirical evidence and sociological and political perspective ( in other words, others' opinions) to what you "know" (feel) to be the truth, without anything to prove it.
But that is a whole other topic.
Yes, there is truth. However, we live in times where we must be savvy as to how we define it, and understanding of the complexity of technology that can both make us see whatever it is wished we see, but inculcate us to believe in what we are surrounded by and bombarded by on a daily basis, in order to inform and construct our opinion of what "truth" is....
I think you are on to something. On that note.. I have faith that the only thing of value is Truth because everything else outside of Truth is in fact not true.. fake.. not real. So it really does not deserve any attention.
If we read a 1000 books of lies, watch a million tv shows full of deception and read a million delusional webpages we are no closer to the Truth. No further away.. but definitely no closer to it.
I like the word faith. I am not afraid of it. It's a great word. Totally misunderstood. Faith is knowing in action. I agree with you that it is definitely not belief. Belief is belief and faith is something else.
It is not possible to know anything but Truth. To know anything but Truth is delusion. So faith would be knowing (the Truth) in action. Since it is not possible to prove the Truth, only experience it or rather be it.. we would need a word for that kind of event. Faith.. good word.
But I hope that you have not missed my point that we may be quite limited, and in fact, entirely misdirected, even controlled, in our conceptualization, or knowing, or even faith in what that truth is.....hence, all those misguided pages on the internet full of information, difficult to disseminate as truth or something masquerading as it for the purposes of molding what we take for truth.
And then inspiring us to have faith and invest in a truth that may only be a convenient lie. These are my cautions about the truth. And I am glad that you understood what I was trying, however roundabout, to get across. Good topic.
I always find it interesting when people say: "I hope you find the truth you are looking for,.." As if, it's just sitting out there, under a hedge somewhere, twiddling its thumbs, and just waiting for us to discover it.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
I believe there is one truth. It is impossible to find that on while we are on Earth stuck in these useless transport vehicles (bodies). We may discover parts of truth, but not THE truth. There are too many lies. There are too many agendas. People don't want to hear truth. They want to hear what makes them happy .. but not truth. (and yes, sometimes truth makes people upset .. but it's still truth and they should hear it)
Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by rwfresh
Yes, I quite agree with your points, heartily.
However, more of what I am speaking and warning of, is that I believe we live in a quantum computed circular and closed system. What we perceive to be reality is only a perception, limited by our ways of perceiving it at present.
And the ways we perceive it are quite malleable, influenceable, perhaps even outright induced. Having said that, I think we can be convinced just about anything is the truth, dependent upon where we are pointed and where those doing the pointing wish us to quantify and qualify as truth. If we can be made to see anything, whether actual, authentic, "real," if you will, and feel the same, then faith in it is a small step. It happens and happened already by increments, not overnight, including, even our perception of time, having used the cliche, "overnight."
Appreciate your thoughts and in depth resposes. Thanks