wonderful advise, it will really help to give you peace...

reply to post by NOTurTypical



I am not taking 10 minutes to reply to everyone of your 15 comments or objections, keep a person's post together.

I'll reply about one you posted....

2 Tim 3:16 is proof of "Bible Alone"

NO it isn't. Look at the verse in context and for other reasons, too many
have to explain.

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures. And "instruction" happens orally too. The faith was passed on orally for
the first 3 centuries before the Canon was compiled in the 4th century.
AND the Bible doesn't "teach" itself. It must be interpreted correctly
by a God given authority.

1Tim 3:15
And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

[16] All scripture,: Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone: nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.

NOTurTypical and colbe, you are both people I admire. I hope your discussion brings light and not anger, I really wish the best for you both.

I'm not sure, but could it be that colbe accepts the idea that the Catholic church has the power to make binding declarations (The "binding and loosing" principle.), and that NOTurTypical doesn't? If that's the case, you are both exploring a very old discussion and I hope that good comes from it. Whether it does or not, remember that you are still Christian brother and sister, and love each other.

reply to post by colbe

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures.

It doesn't matter, that verse says "all scripture". In 2 Peter 3:15-16 the apostle says all of Paul's epistles are "scripture" on par with OT scripture. So at least Peter understood all their letters and gospel accounts were scripture.

So with that said, again, what does 2 Timothy 3:16 say? All scripture is our final authority. In fact, we are to use the scriptures to testy every spirit, and to test everything a pastor tells us just like the Bereans. If the Bible isn't our final authority it would be pretty silly for the Bible to tell us to check everything we hear according to it to verify if it's correct or not, like the Bereans.

Originally posted by charles1952
NOTurTypical and colbe, you are both people I admire. I hope your discussion brings light and not anger, I really wish the best for you both.

I'm not sure, but could it be that colbe accepts the idea that the Catholic church has the power to make binding declarations (The "binding and loosing" principle.), and that NOTurTypical doesn't? If that's the case, you are both exploring a very old discussion and I hope that good comes from it. Whether it does or not, remember that you are still Christian brother and sister, and love each other.

I'm trying, in not just this thread either, to get Mr. Colbe to understand that we both love and trust in the exact same Jesus as our Savior. It's all about Him, He saved us all. I sure don't get angry though, this is just something I do to pass the time.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

. . . I follow Jesus, He died for me . . .

You should show respect for Jesus by not putting the name, Jesus, right next to profanity, in the same sentence.
It does not look like you have any respect for anything sacred, including the name of God.

I didn't curse.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures.

It doesn't matter, that verse says "all scripture". In 2 Peter 3:15-16 the apostle says all of Paul's epistles are "scripture" on par with OT scripture. So at least Peter understood all their letters and gospel accounts were scripture.

So with that said, again, what does 2 Timothy 3:16 say? All scripture is our final authority. In fact, we are to use the scriptures to testy every spirit, and to test everything a pastor tells us just like the Bereans. If the Bible isn't our final authority it would be pretty silly for the Bible to tell us to check everything we hear according to it to verify if it's correct or not, like the Bereans.

IF all scripture is valid, why did the church remove books written before timothy?

reply to post by colbe


I am very uncatholic, I'll tell you why. The catholic church has done everything to break up what is true. Asherah, who lived age after age as the Mother-Goddess, was replaced by Mary. The Mary miracles, in which, the lady who appears, is said to be Mary, but we don't know that it's her... Read the story of he Miraculous medal, and see if you can see in that story, any indication of Mary, our lady of Guadeloupe, the same. These silent little once off apparitions, in which very little was spoken, are simply deemed Marion... However, whereas Asherah would wear rings on every finger, Mary would not, right? Who is she who rises fair as the moon, was written by Solomon, Solomon was said to praise Wisdom, Wisdom, if you look deeply into this aspect of the life of Solomon, is God, for God led Solomon through all those wonderful things he achieved. It is said, it is difficult to say what an Asherah is, but whatever it is, YAHWEH had one. Asherah was possibly the Queen of Sheba, for, it is a Queen from the East who trampels the serpents head... Back to the miraculous medal... I understand why this church, who is bent on the fact that sex is a sin, would try to bury Asherah, because she was known as a sex God, because of the way she helped women, in a very barbarian time, protect themselves. If God could live as Jesus, why couldn't He or She be Quan-Yin. Every single civilization had her... Perhaps The Father was so angry at the time She had no choice but to intervene... Perhaps??? There's more to the Marion culture, some of it very, very frightening indeed. But catholics don't see it. I think though I am too new to this site to risk it, by pointing out what I have discovered. Read those stories at the caves, think about how Jesus wouldn't let anyone suffer, then think about how those grotto and cave appearances had little ones suffered so gravely. Research your religion, there are man apparitions that don't have church blessings, ask yourself why.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures.

It doesn't matter, that verse says "all scripture". In 2 Peter 3:15-16 the apostle says all of Paul's epistles are "scripture" on par with OT scripture. So at least Peter understood all their letters and gospel accounts were scripture.

So with that said, again, what does 2 Timothy 3:16 say? All scripture is our final authority. In fact, we are to use the scriptures to testy every spirit, and to test everything a pastor tells us just like the Bereans. If the Bible isn't our final authority it would be pretty silly for the Bible to tell us to check everything we hear according to it to verify if it's correct or not, like the Bereans.

IF all scripture is valid, why did the church remove books written before timothy?

Not sure what you mean, 1 and 2 Timothy were written by Paul from his home/prison in Rome close to his martyrdom. His first 2 letters he wrote were 1 & 2 Thessalonians and they are included in the Bible. Romans and Galatians were written before 1 & 2 Timothy.

The scriptures point to Jesus the Messiah.
Mary rejoiced in the idea of bearing 'my Saviour'.
Jesus sits at the right hand of GOD interceding on behalf of those who trust in His sacrifice on the cross. He completed, fulfilled and finished everything thast GOD required by His holy law.
His blod is the ransom price for my sin.
'It is finished'.
Mary was chosen to bear Jesus. Wonderful blessing to her!
But she adds nothing. Even she was looking to/for redemption.
'I am the way the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through Me'.
Should that be translated as:
No one comes to the Father accept through: Mary/praying to the 'saints'/serving the 'pope', faithfully giving your life to the capricious dogma of the catholic church?

You can stick to your pagan babylonian heresies if you wish.
Jesus is ALL, or NOTHING.
He's not something/an optional extra/an alternative route.
If you're trying to make your relationship with YHWH, the Father through Mary or anyone other than Jesus, you have big, BIG problems on judgement day.....

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures.

It doesn't matter, that verse says "all scripture". In 2 Peter 3:15-16 the apostle says all of Paul's epistles are "scripture" on par with OT scripture. So at least Peter understood all their letters and gospel accounts were scripture.

So with that said, again, what does 2 Timothy 3:16 say? All scripture is our final authority. In fact, we are to use the scriptures to testy every spirit, and to test everything a pastor tells us just like the Bereans. If the Bible isn't our final authority it would be pretty silly for the Bible to tell us to check everything we hear according to it to verify if it's correct or not, like the Bereans.

IF all scripture is valid, why did the church remove books written before timothy?

Not sure what you mean, 1 and 2 Timothy were written by Paul from his home/prison in Rome close to his martyrdom. His first 2 letters he wrote were 1 & 2 Thessalonians and they are included in the Bible. Romans and Galatians were written before 1 & 2 Timothy.

Assuming these are the approx. times these books were written..

100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus

Paul states that all scripture is valid... while the bible wasn't "officially" put together for another 200 some odd years when the churches official "canon" was established....

Heres a list of some "christian" texts that were written during that time period...

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

SO if Paul made that statement in that letter 200 years prior to when the church decided what was "official" or not... Who are they to decide what should or shouldn't be "left out"... IF one of the first church fathers stated... all scripture is valid?

The only scripture they had to go on,
The only scripture Jesus talked from,
The only scripture the apostles had to convice people about Jesus was...
The Old Testament!
If you can't find Jesus in there, you have SERIOUS problems.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

The Gospel didn't exist. Timothy only knew OT Scriptures.

It doesn't matter, that verse says "all scripture". In 2 Peter 3:15-16 the apostle says all of Paul's epistles are "scripture" on par with OT scripture. So at least Peter understood all their letters and gospel accounts were scripture.

So with that said, again, what does 2 Timothy 3:16 say? All scripture is our final authority. In fact, we are to use the scriptures to testy every spirit, and to test everything a pastor tells us just like the Bereans. If the Bible isn't our final authority it would be pretty silly for the Bible to tell us to check everything we hear according to it to verify if it's correct or not, like the Bereans.

IF all scripture is valid, why did the church remove books written before timothy?

Not sure what you mean, 1 and 2 Timothy were written by Paul from his home/prison in Rome close to his martyrdom. His first 2 letters he wrote were 1 & 2 Thessalonians and they are included in the Bible. Romans and Galatians were written before 1 & 2 Timothy.

I didn't say the Old Testament or the New Testament were invalid.
Scripture is inerrant. There is more to God's revelation than is contained
in Scripture. That's why the heresy of "bible alone" is a heresy.

Paul was speaking to Timothy, there was no New Testament when
Paul penned that letter. He was talking about the Old Testament. How
could he be speaking of the New...that's your take because you misinterpret Scripture. You have no authority. God gave the authority
to interpret Scripture to the RCC, she decided the Canon. Most
Protestant ministers at least acknowledge the fact.

That verse in no way confirms Martin Luther's "Bible Alone." Try another
verse.

reply to post by Akragon

Assuming these are the approx. times these books were written..

100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus

The author of those books was martyred at the order of Nero in about 64-67 AD.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Assuming these are the approx. times these books were written..

100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus

The author of those books was martyred at the order of Nero in about 64-67 AD.

That hardly helps the case for "all scripture being Valid" now does it...

Also consider in your sig. "debunking evil bible.com"... the author states...

science tells us the order that things came into being, and that it was very much different that what it says in the Bible. Science determines these based on dating methods like carbon dating, proven unreliable time and time again.

SO if carbon dating is unreliable as your link tells the reader... How would anyone know for a fact that those books were written or dated to anywhere near that time?

Be love in the present moment...more advise, now from St. Thomas Aquinas ~

* * *

February 23, 2012


St. Thomas Aquinas says: "Praise be to Jesus."

"Perhaps God's Will is not what the soul would choose for himself, but the soul's acceptance of God's Will in the present moment sanctifies the moment at hand. This is the only way to unity with the Divine Will. It is in this acceptance - this surrender of the free will - that the soul finds his peace."

"Hearts that are motivated by greed, envy, love of the temporal cannot fully surrender to God's Will. All of these and more are like chains that hold the soul back spiritually."....


www.holylove.org...

Originally posted by charles1952
NOTurTypical and colbe, you are both people I admire. I hope your discussion brings light and not anger, I really wish the best for you both.

I'm not sure, but could it be that colbe accepts the idea that the Catholic church has the power to make binding declarations (The "binding and loosing" principle.), and that NOTurTypical doesn't? If that's the case, you are both exploring a very old discussion and I hope that good comes from it. Whether it does or not, remember that you are still Christian brother and sister, and love each other.

Sorry, if I miss some posts, I just saw this one from Charles. I am
awake to pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. 3:00 a.m. is a special hour
like 3:00 p.m.

NOTurTypical, I like you very much because even though we differ, our
discussion is respectful so it continues...no hurt feelings.

If I say it a 100 times, will it be heard then? Non-Catholic Christians
convert to the faith, the RCC, after:

#1. reading the quotes of the early Church Fathers, some of them knew the Apostles. They are called the Apostolic Fathers. Do a search, type in Catholic Apologetics first.

#2. asking the question, by whose authority do I believe what I do?

Charles, if you read in prophecy for over 13 years that "the Remnant
is Roman Catholic", would you keep on trying to share the fact?


Jesus, I trust in you,


colbe

reply to post by Akragon

How would anyone know for a fact that those books were written or dated to anywhere near that time?

With the same methods historians use for dating other documents from antiquity?

This is a help for everyone, no matter your belief. And read at the link the message from St. Thomas Aquinas given on March 7th.


www.holylove.org...

March 7, 2012

"I am your Jesus, born Incarnate."

"I have come to once again reassure you and guide you concerning the future...

"You cannot add one moment to your life through worry or from stockpiling commodities. The time of your judgment is already written in the Book of Life. Prepare your hearts in Holy Love first; then you will be led."
-------------------------

Originally posted by colbe
This is a help for everyone, no matter your belief. And read at the link the message from St. Thomas Aquinas given on March 7th.

2 Thessalonians 2:9

"I am your Jesus, born Incarnate."

"I have come to once again reassure you and guide you concerning the future...

"You cannot add one moment to your life through worry or from stockpiling commodities. The time of your judgment is already written in the Book of Life. Prepare your hearts in Holy Love first; then you will be led."

Jesus, who I happen to worship, says this:

21 And then if anyone says to you, "Behold, here is the Christ"; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; DO NOT BELIEVE HIM; 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

Mark 13

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by colbe
This is a help for everyone, no matter your belief. And read at the link the message from St. Thomas Aquinas given on March 7th.

2 Thessalonians 2:9

"I am your Jesus, born Incarnate."

"I have come to once again reassure you and guide you concerning the future...

"You cannot add one moment to your life through worry or from stockpiling commodities. The time of your judgment is already written in the Book of Life. Prepare your hearts in Holy Love first; then you will be led."

Jesus, who I happen to worship, says this:

21 And then if anyone says to you, "Behold, here is the Christ"; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; DO NOT BELIEVE HIM; 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

Mark 13

edit on 8-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

You can deny the true faith and deny prophecy but interesting and sad,
you can't show anyone your belief in "Bible Alone"....Martin Luther's heresy is written in Scripture or that all of God's revelation is contained in Scripture.

You're stuck. Catholicism you reject gave you your Bible which you say is your authority. How nuts.