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Homeschooling families can’t teach homosexual acts sinful in class says Alberta gvmt
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reply to post by imherejusttoread
Insecure? Nobody's trying to home-school me or my children. I don't even live in Canada – nor in America, either.
Your response seems rather hysterical to me. Parents dictating to children at the point of a gun? I never said anything about that, or anything even remotely like it.
Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them. If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school, or some religious-fundamentalist nonsense about 'evil influences', I'll admit I'm wrong.
Insecure? Nobody's trying to home-school me or my children. I don't even live in Canada – nor in America, either.
Your response seems rather hysterical to me. Parents dictating to children at the point of a gun? I never said anything about that, or anything even remotely like it.
Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them. If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school, or some religious-fundamentalist nonsense about 'evil influences', I'll admit I'm wrong.
edit on 28/2/12 by Astyanax because: I will, too.
reply to post by 1nOne
Very poetically stated. However, the government of a country (which includes its courts, and its sovereign if it has one) most certainly does have dominion over its citizens. The State has the right to make and enforce laws that its citizens must obey, and to raise taxes they must pay. In exchange, it protects those citizens against foreign invasion, maintains law and order and provides essential public services.
One of those services, recognized as such by all modern States, is education.
Education is both the duty and the preserve of the State. It may choose, under certain circumstances, to deputize parents to play a role in the education of their children. The terms and conditions under which parents and other private individuals may participate in education are at the discretion of the State, and it has the right to enforce those conditions. Whether it is practical or not to do so in certain situations (such as this one) is moot.
When you come to the realisation that "they" have no actual authority over you, you are FREE to do as you please. The government, the courts of man, the "Crown", have NO DOMINION OVER YOU. Their power structure is built on a house of cards: its bricks are fear, its mortar, lies.
Very poetically stated. However, the government of a country (which includes its courts, and its sovereign if it has one) most certainly does have dominion over its citizens. The State has the right to make and enforce laws that its citizens must obey, and to raise taxes they must pay. In exchange, it protects those citizens against foreign invasion, maintains law and order and provides essential public services.
One of those services, recognized as such by all modern States, is education.
Education is both the duty and the preserve of the State. It may choose, under certain circumstances, to deputize parents to play a role in the education of their children. The terms and conditions under which parents and other private individuals may participate in education are at the discretion of the State, and it has the right to enforce those conditions. Whether it is practical or not to do so in certain situations (such as this one) is moot.
edit on 28/2/12 by Astyanax because: of complex tenses.
As a heterosexual raising a homosexual teenager I agree that teaching those things are harmful but here in America we have a separation of church and
state. the govt. doesn't support one religion nor does it dictate the doctrines of those religions. This article wasn't just about home schooling it
also included religious schools. Teaching what is or is not a "sin" is entirely up to the religion. Adultery is (supposedly) a sin do we have a
problem with that being taught? Neither homosexuality or adultery is illegal yet most religions list them as sins. People homeschool or send their
children to religious schools so they can learn with their religious viewpoint for a govt. to dictate their doctrine the govt. might as well just ban
all religions and although I disagree with most religious beliefs I don't want the govt interfering with them.
reply to post by schadenfreude
I don't actually have a problem with this to be honest. Aside from a myriad of reasons why it would be wrong to teach that homosexuality is sinful, those words don't actually appear in the bible (despite what Catholics may wish to believe).
If you do teach that it is sinful, you are perpetuating a hate crime. It wouldn't be tolerated regarding race, so why should it be tolerated regarding sexuality?
I don't actually have a problem with this to be honest. Aside from a myriad of reasons why it would be wrong to teach that homosexuality is sinful, those words don't actually appear in the bible (despite what Catholics may wish to believe).
If you do teach that it is sinful, you are perpetuating a hate crime. It wouldn't be tolerated regarding race, so why should it be tolerated regarding sexuality?
I would just teach my child SCIENCE - how biological reproduction actually works. Then it will be easy for him/her to deduct where the abnormal
behaviour falls.
Originally posted by WhoKnows100
I'll "indoctrinate" my child with the beliefs of God Almighty anyday over the beliefs indoctrinated into them through the public school system created just for this time period. Until people wake up to the fact that "humanism" "liberalism" and "socialism" are RELIGIONS IN AND OF THEMSELVES, dictating what is and is not acceptable (sin by another name), then God help us all.
Well isn't that special!
I suppose you can teach your kids whatever you want, but in the end, if it does not conform with the provincial/state curriculum, then you are not entitled to say that they have an education that conforms to societal standards. Which is all well and good until they have to present a high school diploma in order to go to university, or flip burgers, or whatever their chosen career path.
Personally, I think it is abhorrent to stuff a kid's head full of bronze-age admonitions and expect them to function in this particular millennium, but hey, as long as you are footing the therapy bills, who am I to say?
reply to post by Astyanax
I thank G-d Almighty that most of my grandchildren are homeschooled!
I don't want my grandchildren being forcefed that garbage that being a
homosexual is a normal lifestyle choice.It is a sin and a personal choice!
I thank G-d Almighty that most of my grandchildren are homeschooled!
I don't want my grandchildren being forcefed that garbage that being a
homosexual is a normal lifestyle choice.It is a sin and a personal choice!
Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by 1nOne
When you come to the realisation that "they" have no actual authority over you, you are FREE to do as you please. The government, the courts of man, the "Crown", have NO DOMINION OVER YOU. Their power structure is built on a house of cards: its bricks are fear, its mortar, lies.
Very poetically stated. However, the government of a country (which includes its courts, and its sovereign if it has one) most certainly does have dominion over its citizens. The State has the right to make and enforce laws that its citizens must obey, and to raise taxes they must pay. In exchange, it protects those citizens against foreign invasion, maintains law and order and provides essential public services.
The servant is greater than his master. One only enters slavery by one's own free will in choosing to give up the power that is one's birthright, over to the adversary.
No man has ownership over another and no person shall judge his brother lest he be judged himself.
edit on 28-2-2012 by 1nOne because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-2-2012 by 1nOne because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Astyanax
I thank G-d Almighty that most of my grandchildren are homeschooled!
I don't want my grandchildren being forcefed that garbage that being a
homosexual is a normal lifestyle choice.It is a sin and a personal choice!
I could not choose to be gay if you put a gun to my head. Show me a straight who chose to be gay, and I'll show you a bi. Personally, I think that those who are convinced that being gay is a lifesyle choice must themselves be bi, because anybody 100% straight cannot envisage the concept of 'choice' in the matter of their sexuality.
Which all goes to say two things...for some reason, each person's picture of 'normalcy' just happens to mirror their own particular condition, and secondly, I don't teach my kids that homosexuality is a sin.
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
It's funny, isn't it? I am an ex teacher (what would be high school over in the US) and only ever came across a few home schooled kids - they came to us late on in order to take exams. Without exception, they were severely lacking in social skills and most academic areas. I will, however, admit they all had one area of pure expertise. That is to say they all had one subject that they not only excelled in but actually were way ahead of expected levels. Still, that really didn't make up for the areas they were lacking in. An example - one lad at 15 used to shave his pencil inside his mouth and then suck all the shavings. He was uni post grad standard at maths and 7 year old standard for pretty much everything else. He had absolutely no concept of social skills which led him to be bullied. And, in fairness, i will actually say that most of this bullying was brought on by himself (as an ex teacher that saw bullying very regularly, i can tell you that this type of scenario is actually very rare).
It's funny, isn't it? I am an ex teacher (what would be high school over in the US) and only ever came across a few home schooled kids - they came to us late on in order to take exams. Without exception, they were severely lacking in social skills and most academic areas. I will, however, admit they all had one area of pure expertise. That is to say they all had one subject that they not only excelled in but actually were way ahead of expected levels. Still, that really didn't make up for the areas they were lacking in. An example - one lad at 15 used to shave his pencil inside his mouth and then suck all the shavings. He was uni post grad standard at maths and 7 year old standard for pretty much everything else. He had absolutely no concept of social skills which led him to be bullied. And, in fairness, i will actually say that most of this bullying was brought on by himself (as an ex teacher that saw bullying very regularly, i can tell you that this type of scenario is actually very rare).
reply to post by mamabeth
Where does the bible say that being gay is a sin? It doesn't.
Maybe that is not what you are taught at bible class. I suggest you do some research before delivering such rubbish.
ETA:
Ok, the bible is an area of very weak knowledge for me. As such, i have just discovered that certain versions of the bible do actually say that homosexuality is a sin so for that i apologise directly to Mamabeth - i was wrong.
However, what it actually states is that homosexuality is a sin, no different to any other sin and that God (if you happen to believe) can absolve you of this sin. All sin is the same, is what it is getting at, and that doesn't preclude you from god's love (if you believe).
I would just add though that just because something is in a book that was written, at best, decades after the life of Jesus (if he actually existed) that doesn't mean it is true.
Where does the bible say that being gay is a sin? It doesn't.
Maybe that is not what you are taught at bible class. I suggest you do some research before delivering such rubbish.
ETA:
Ok, the bible is an area of very weak knowledge for me. As such, i have just discovered that certain versions of the bible do actually say that homosexuality is a sin so for that i apologise directly to Mamabeth - i was wrong.
However, what it actually states is that homosexuality is a sin, no different to any other sin and that God (if you happen to believe) can absolve you of this sin. All sin is the same, is what it is getting at, and that doesn't preclude you from god's love (if you believe).
I would just add though that just because something is in a book that was written, at best, decades after the life of Jesus (if he actually existed) that doesn't mean it is true.
edit on 28-2-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Astyanax
Explain to me what justifies home schooling when there are schools available and the child is capable of attending them. If you can come up with a valid argument that isn't about wanting to teach them something different from what is taught in school, or some religious-fundamentalist nonsense about 'evil influences', I'll admit I'm wrong.
edit on 28/2/12 by Astyanax because: I will, too.
Well, I was seriously considering homeschooling my child, and it wasn't to teach her something different, and it certainly wasn't to teach religious fundamentalist nonsense. I simply wasn't happy with the "one-size-fits-all" method of teaching used in the public schools. I wanted to teach the same things, but I wanted to customize how it was taught to better fit my daughter's preferences for learning.
Back on topic, you can't dictate what parents teach their children when it comes to personal beliefs, but you can dictate what they teach as facts. So, as long as parents can separate fact from belief when homeschooling their children, then it should be acceptable. Homosexuality being a sin is a personal belief, NOT a fact.
I don't like that kids are being taught to hate, but this is worse because it sets a hell of a precedent. What will they impose next? And could
they just be using this as an excuse to meddle more? I don't see why not. Seems to be a pattern with big government.
I grew up with religious home-schooling parents spewing their anti-gay rhetoric and you know what? It didn't take. Children aren't computers to be programmed at will, they can choose what programming to accept. I don't give a damn if someone packs fudge or dresses in drag. I have just one rule: do not impose your will.
I grew up with religious home-schooling parents spewing their anti-gay rhetoric and you know what? It didn't take. Children aren't computers to be programmed at will, they can choose what programming to accept. I don't give a damn if someone packs fudge or dresses in drag. I have just one rule: do not impose your will.
reply to post by Flavian
You say you only came across a few home-schooled kids so it really isn't enough to have a set opinion. My daughter was home-schooled until she asked to go to "real" school. They put her in the bottom table, "just to see how she does" and she climbed to the top of the class during that first year. Her social skills are that she likes everyone and everyone likes her, and she loves it so much she wants to be a teacher too.
You say you only came across a few home-schooled kids so it really isn't enough to have a set opinion. My daughter was home-schooled until she asked to go to "real" school. They put her in the bottom table, "just to see how she does" and she climbed to the top of the class during that first year. Her social skills are that she likes everyone and everyone likes her, and she loves it so much she wants to be a teacher too.
reply to post by wigit
Whilst i take what you are saying, perhaps you should also take what i am saying - after all, i have had to deal with home schooled kids!
Obviously, not every situation is the same. However, other teachers i spoke to about it also said pretty much the same thing - academically they are generally lacking in several areas and socially they are usually lacking by a larger margin. This was all observed testament over the years.
However, again, all situations are different. I congratulate whoever did the home schooling in the situation that you are familiar with - believe me, such an outcome is not the norm.
Whilst i take what you are saying, perhaps you should also take what i am saying - after all, i have had to deal with home schooled kids!
Obviously, not every situation is the same. However, other teachers i spoke to about it also said pretty much the same thing - academically they are generally lacking in several areas and socially they are usually lacking by a larger margin. This was all observed testament over the years.
However, again, all situations are different. I congratulate whoever did the home schooling in the situation that you are familiar with - believe me, such an outcome is not the norm.
Originally posted by Flavian
Obviously, not every situation is the same. However, other teachers i spoke to about it also said pretty much the same thing - academically they are generally lacking in several areas and socially they are usually lacking by a larger margin. This was all observed testament over the years.
I would suggest that some parents who have home schooled their kids have decided to do so because of some circumstance like Asperger's that might make 'the system' a challenge...which is to say that the social awkwardness may have preceded the schooling. My son, who went through the 'gifted' program in high school asserts that half the kids in his class were " 'spurgin' " and were misfits at best.
And about the only behaviour that he can't tolerate is intolerance.
reply to post by Flavian
King James Version...
1.Lev 20:13
2.Judges 19:22-24
3.Romans 1:24-27
4.1Cor 6:9
King James Version...
1.Lev 20:13
2.Judges 19:22-24
3.Romans 1:24-27
4.1Cor 6:9
Why would you waste your kid's time by trying to plant a chip on their shoulders about homosexuality?
There's far more interesting and useful stuff you could be teaching them...Hell, if you're that uptight, maybe you aren't the best person to be teaching your kids.
There's far more interesting and useful stuff you could be teaching them...Hell, if you're that uptight, maybe you aren't the best person to be teaching your kids.
Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Flavian
King James Version...
1.Lev 20:13
2.Judges 19:22-24
3.Romans 1:24-27
4.1Cor 6:9
Ah yes...good old Leviticus at the top of the heap. And do we subscribe to the rest of his admonitions or just cherry pick the ones that suit your particular bias?
J. Kent Ashcraft May 2000
Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.www-users.cs.york.ac.uk...
Somehow, I don't seem to get much of a response when I trot this item out from time to time. It really does skewer the faithful. And like George Carlin used to ask, "How many Catholics are doing eternity for eating meat on a Friday?"
reply to post by schadenfreude
I side with the Canadian government on this one. In Canada, parents are financially subsidized for home schooling their children therefore the government has every right to dictate the rules as the parents are working for the government at that point.
In America, parents do not get reimbursed for home schooling. Americans should keep this in mind if the government starts offering money to home schooling parents.
I side with the Canadian government on this one. In Canada, parents are financially subsidized for home schooling their children therefore the government has every right to dictate the rules as the parents are working for the government at that point.
In America, parents do not get reimbursed for home schooling. Americans should keep this in mind if the government starts offering money to home schooling parents.