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How Big Is the U.S. Debt?- Not What You Expect!

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posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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Currency and credit derivatives

$790 trillion

www.usdebtclock.org...
edit on 28-2-2012 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by Semicollegiate
 

hmmmm, FIAT currency is just that ... fiat / imaginary
and credit derivatives involve selling IOUs ... soooooo, what's the product here?

imagination & IOUs ... i thought Disney cornered that market already



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 




hmmmm, FIAT currency is just that ... fiat / imaginary
Fiat money has nothing to do with the problem, that is a huge misconception. What really matters is who controls the quantity of the fiat money.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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we don't have much time, better start making preparations.

Our fiat currency system is a fatal cancer, it won't be around long.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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What make me mad is that the US is a 1st world country that has all this debt and most of its citizens live a very good life style compared to the rest of the world, but its all based on debt while the rest of the world starves.

How is it fair that the US has all this Debt but a poor country with millions starving cant have the same amount of debt to feed their people and build up their economy?

How about we go and give every country on earth the same amount of debt that the US has and then we see who is the real super power in the world. The US would no long have the most superior or biggest military in the world, African nations would not have millions dying from starvation, chances are there would already be a cure for aids and cancer, there would be an employment boom and technological boom and so on and so on.....



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Semicollegiate
 

hmmmm, FIAT currency is just that ... fiat / imaginary
and credit derivatives involve selling IOUs ... soooooo, what's the product here?

imagination & IOUs ... i thought Disney cornered that market already

About 5 minutes after the general public realizes the truth in what you say, two things happen in my opinion. The currency loses the only true value it's ever had. Perception. Then it all falls apart with a speed that ought to be breathtaking. It isn't like we haven't seen this happen before. At least some of us watched it happen.

Eastern Europe...when the Wall came down. Everyone seems to forget it was more than a little traumatic for those on the eastern side of the line. I'm sure not looking forward to experiencing it.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Honor93
 




hmmmm, FIAT currency is just that ... fiat / imaginary
Fiat money has nothing to do with the problem, that is a huge misconception. What really matters is who controls the quantity of the fiat money.

wrong again ... money isn't EVEN the issue ... the game is who owns the RESOURCES.

it was never about money, that is just a tool, no different than a gun.
everyone barters (off the books) ... do you give a neighbor a ride? babysit for a friend? do lawnwork for someone in exchange for veges from their garden? technically, these are all illegal activities according to our "laws".

it is not about the money but the Federal Reserve system of fractional reserve banking.
this is not a mystery or a myth.
"laws" simply keep the money machine lubricated.

it doesn't matter who made or managed or owns the money (it's FIAT) and it really doesn't matter when the RESOURCES are restricted.
keep playing the money pawn and soon the game will already be over.
the Queen in this chess match is already surrounded.

edit to add: this game of Resources is the same game that has been played since the beginning of time ... new players, new goals, same rules, same aggressions, same outcomes, what has changed ????
you really want to know, READ about the world history between 1788-1935 ... this information is not hidden and not difficult to understand.

the US had it right more than once but then ultimately, we were convinced/swindled to forfeit our own personal resources for an imaginary note.
EVERYTHING built upon that is destined to fail, surely this is obvious to you?

sure there has been plenty of mistakes made since that time but again, such a weak foundation cannot survive.
if you step in quicksand, there is a slim possibility you can retreat, however, one wrong move and you will linger and sink to your death ... welllll, we stepped in it, big time ... and have been slowing sinking since.
edit on 28-2-2012 by Honor93 because: edit to add text



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



the US had it right more than once but then ultimately, we were convinced/swindled to forfeit our own personal resources for an imaginary note.
So please make it clearer for me. What was the "right" way to do things? A gold standard? If that is your answer than you clearly didn't read my thread about fiat money. Lincoln had it right when he created the "greenback"... but the American people were "swindled" into believing the FED could save them with a debt-based currency.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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what is the intrest rate on that?
and are they paying it all?

I bet it will still keep going up.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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A monetary system that issues currency with ANY % of interest can NEVER be repaid !
It's blindingly obvious !
If the FED/BOE issue say £1/$1 and charge a 10% interest on top !
Where the phook does that 10% come from ?

People can't see the wood for the tree's !

Tried to explain this in my thread here :-

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peace



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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If the debt levels really are that high, it actually fills me with hope that a solution will be found eventually. The reason for this optimism? As has been pointed out, there simply isn't enough money in existence to cover this and printing cash to cover it devalues what does actually already exist. Therefore a global solution simply HAS to be found. You never know, this may entail a completely new financial system - which is what most of us appear to want!



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Honor93
 



the US had it right more than once but then ultimately, we were convinced/swindled to forfeit our own personal resources for an imaginary note.
So please make it clearer for me. What was the "right" way to do things? A gold standard? If that is your answer than you clearly didn't read my thread about fiat money. Lincoln had it right when he created the "greenback"... but the American people were "swindled" into believing the FED could save them with a debt-based currency.

why would you ask a question and then answer it in the same post?

yes, in the history of the US, there were several attempts at banking, money management and taxation ... if you know the history, why are you asking such silly questions?
as for Lincoln, he should have been hung for treason but that's another topic for another thread.

the greenbacks started out as a good idea but ultimately, the implementation resulted in a worse condition than before the program began.

greenbacks were nothing more than a practice run for the Fed Reserve silliness we are subjected to today. greenbacks were the result of Lincolns' mission of resurrecting central banking (like that stuff we're dealing with today)

ever read "Andrew Jackson and the Bank War" ??

Jackson considered fiat money to be "the instrument of the swindler and the cheat. For Andrew Jackson, hard money — specie — was the only legitimate money; anything else was a fraud to steal from honest men." (Remini, p. 19). Jackson also believed that the doctrine of states' rights meant that a central bank was unconstitutional. This view was quite pervasive, especially in the South. As Timberlake writes (p. 83): "The states . . . . were properly jealous and fearful of encroachment by the federal government. Since a central bank would necessarily be a federal bank and would maintain and operate state branches from a distant center, proponents of states' rights found opposition to a national bank almost mandatory."

Jackson suspected that a central bank would be controlled by Northern bankers and would be used to manipulate politics. Remini does point out that the strongest support for the bank came from New England, whereas the fiercest opposition came from Southern politicians like Jackson.
Lincoln, Gold & Greenbacks
yes, good 'ole Woodrow Wilson put the final nail in our coffin when the FR Act was signed into existence.

there really is quite a bit of monetary history between the 1700s, the Civil War, the greenbacks and the Fed Reserve but you don't seem interested in any of that.
why would you have a problem with the gold standard if you're in favor of the greenbacks ?? they were based on the same standard.

question -- when our most basic needs are filled via natural resources, why do we need money?



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



as for Lincoln, he should have been hung for treason but that's another topic for another thread.
He was assassinated anyway, and it was probably done by the banking cartel fyi.


the greenbacks started out as a good idea but ultimately, the implementation resulted in a worse condition than before the program began.

greenbacks were nothing more than a practice run for the Fed Reserve silliness we are subjected to today.
Clearly you still haven't read my thread. The greenback was a great success during the time it was used, it led to increased productivity and a booming economy, the "worse condition" you speak of happened after they started calling in huge amounts of the greenback note, and effectively sucked the money supply dry, thus inducing an artificial panic. After creating the problem, the FED (banking cartel) then swooped in and "saved" the nation, with the Federal Reserve Note, a debt-based currency that the Government essentially had no control over. Just look how much they have handed out in secret loans, as revealed by the audit. This is what the bankers had to say about the greenback:


"If this mischievous financial policy, which has its origin in North America, shall become endurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous without precedent in the history of the world. The brains, and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe."

~ Hazard Circular, London Times, 1865


The Secret of Oz is a documentary you might want to watch very carefully:



Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
One of the hard hitting examples provided in the The Secret of Oz, is that of the currency used by the Roman Republic. They created cheap coins made from copper and brass, based on the credit and trust of the nation. It was a fiat money - not backed by precious metals - and it was a great success. It is one of the main reasons that Rome was able to prosper for so long and become the great nation that it was. When the bankers forced Rome to revert back to a gold backed currency, productivity came to a sudden halt, a deep depression set in, and it quickly led to their downfall. This is because the bankers control almost all of the worlds gold, thus a gold backed currency is one of the easiest types of currencies for them to manipulate.


"Without the use of either gold or silver, Rome became mistress of the commerce of the world. Her people were the bravest, the most prosperous, the most happy, for they know no grinding poverty. Her money was issued directly to the people, and was composed of a cheap material - copper and brass - based alone upon the faith and credit of the nation.

With this abundant money supply she built her magnificent courts and temples. She distributed her lands among the people in small holdings, and wealth poured into the coffers of Rome..."

~ Howard Milford, The American Plutocracy, 1895


Do you want to know why the dollar is slowly withering away into worthless toilet paper? Perhaps you will understand if I present the answer in graphic form.



It's called inflation. By creating more new notes they make the existing ones worth less. Therefore it all comes down to who controls the quantity. There is nothing inherently wrong with fiat money, the problem is those people who wish to create too much of it.


"Whosoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce... And when you realise that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate."

~ President James Garfield, 1881


A few weeks after President Garfield made the above statement, he was assassinated also.
edit on 28-2-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-2-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by ProRipp
 


They pay the interest by granting the Fed Reserve rights to future taxes collected. Problem is that have borrowed so much, printed so much and have a smaller base to tax that even this will fail.

Either way, I agree that charging interest on the money is a doomed policy.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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What's the worst that's going to happen? Some bank executive going to show up and make me pay them worthless paper I probably don't even have, or else what?

What's the worst that happens? I die? Good. They can only kill you once, interest is forever!



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by CaptChaos

What exactly do you imagine the Fed "produces"?


The Fed produces numbers.

The fact is we all want bigger numbers.

Doing away with the Fed will only temporarily solve the problem.

Shortly after the Fed is eliminated people will begin to shout for a return to more numbers.

Really the problem is the collection for repayment of these numbers, not the raw production of numbers.

An elimination of collection for repayment is what you really want.


edit on 28-2-2012 by ImpartialObserver because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by ImpartialObserver
 



An elimination of collection for repayment is what you really want.


I think we are slowly seeing this become a reality. Not the elimination of collection, per say.....but the inability to repay.

Eventually individuals, business' and governments themselves will not be able to keep up and then the whole thing will begin to collapse. Fortunately, most of the debt is top heavy and lies on the shoulders of government. When the people begin to take a stand against a government that forces the people to pay the governments debt, debt forgiveness will soon follow......or there will be an uprising by the people.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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This is what happens when you allow unregulated derivatives



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by ImpartialObserver
 


The production of unlimited money equates hyper inflation, the extreme devaluing of your dollar to nothing. No one wants that. If your money has no value, you have no money.
edit on 28-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by ImpartialObserver
 


The production of unlimited money equates hyper inflation, the extreme devaluing of your dollar to nothing. No one wants that. If your money has no value, you have no money.


The value of money means nothing to people who have none.

It is only the people who have money to keep that are worried about having none.

Those who have nothing to lose, well quite frankly they have nothing to lose.

However it is the taxation on any gain that of those who have nothing to lose should be worried about - This is the theft of your childrens future time and effort - Taxation is a system of oppression devised by the rich to keep the poor under their control.
edit on 28-2-2012 by ImpartialObserver because: (no reason given)




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