NEWS: Whispered In Russia: Democracy Is Finished

Following the school massacre in Beslan, Russian President Vladimir Putin introduced measures to conslidate the power of his office even further. Such steps have triggered a response that Russia may be returning to a Soviet Union. In a symbolic move following the legislation, Russia has decided to commemorate a famed Soviet dictator.



There are many officials in Russia who are saying that democracy in Russia is dead, and that it died on the 13th of September. Officials are receiving threats and instructions to not criticize this legislation. Putin's case remains that this was prompted by the war on terrorism, but his opponents believe that this may be an attempt to expand his already broad powers.

How long will Russia continue under the false flag of democracy? Not very long it seems.

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Putin Exposes US-UK Terror Strategy

[edit on 19-9-2004 by Jamuhn]

[edit on 19-9-2004 by Nerdling]

Originally posted by Jamuhn

How long will Russia continue under the false flag of democracy? Not very long it seems.

Democracy in Russia?....it was a very well executed "deception", one that several Russian defectors have talked about and has been in place for a very long time, at least since the 1950s. Making the whole world think that the old communist regime existed no more. It was a deception most of the world believed, and amazingly many still believe it.

Looks like someone is missing the good old days, and thinks the world is a better place when we have a big bad enemy?

Will someone get me off this planet? I kinda liked not living under the shadow of nukes pointed at me on tight alert.

I thought the Cold War was over when Communism in the Soviet Union fell...so what is this?

The Cold War II.

Putin,
Has said publicly in interviews that he does not want to see a return to the good old days and would gladly reduce nuke arsenals to near nothing if the U.S. follows, but the U.S. has balked and is only grudgingly helping to demolish the ones that are already slated to be destroyed.

It's the U.S. ,I think that fears a peaceful Russia especially w/ a hegmonic CCP-china running around.

Bode

Russia this Russia that.... Just get used to it. Russia is not USA and the same democracy will not work in both Russia and USA. Russia is a democracy and will be one. It will be different. Every turn Russia makes everyone pulls the Sovietizing card out. And I am sick of it.

I agree with Russian there. In my opinion, Russia survived the collapse of the Soviet Union quite well, considering. Democracy is in Russia's future as well as better relations with the Western world. I mean... we DO have a common enemy now, do we not? What tensions still exist between us represent little more than half instinctual posturing that's been ingrained into our paranoid minds over the past half-century. Believe it or not, but the Cold War is over.

Russia's problem with it's organized crime as well as terrorism needs to be dealt with before any true prgress can be made there. Putin knows this and has stated as much on many occasions.

I believe that Russian is also correct in pointing out that our version of Democracy won't necessarily work with other cultures. The people of Russia are wise, clever and perceptive and will find their way to a comfortable level of freedom in due time.

One day I hope that we may be able to call the Russian people... friends and allies.

Honestly, I don't believe in the form of democracy we currently have. There are many grades to democracy, and you will never see me on the side that advocates more government where it does more harm than good. That goes for any country.

Russia, as well, is accusing the US and UK of sponsoring Chechen terrorism. You can see it on the relevent discussion threads I put on my original post.

I agree that our form of democracy could use a little tune-up, and soon may need an overhaul lol.

I'm not the only one who thinks that Putin's accusations may be little more than posturing to cover for weaknesses that are finally becoming visible to the outside world. I think this is a link to a Washington Post article. It goes into greater detail.
www.boston.com...

Putin is trying to counter a revolution brewing due to the same old problems, the haves and the have nots.

Crime and terrorism.

Gotta do what he's gotta do.

At least he's upfront with it- unlike 'some' I won't be crass enough to mention.

If you mean Bush, who is trying to steal our freedom piece by piece,

I agree.

Bode

Originally posted by cstyle226
I thought the Cold War was over when Communism in the Soviet Union fell...so what is this?

The Cold War II.

NATO was still advancing toward Moscow untill recently.

At the biginning of this year a few F-16s made thier way to bases in Latvia and Estonia.

Hey... I thought that the people in russian can still vote... The only vote they get to have though is the vote for who they want as president...

I still believe that is democracy (pretty much anyways)...

Anyways.. Putin is making Russia stronger again. I like this.

After the Soviet union fell their was this massive power void which led to the formation of crime syndicates with powerfull friends in the Kremlin.
Also with the ready availability of weapons in the black market these organisations thrive.

If the USSR had a terrorist attack like Beslan they would have nuked chechnya and arrested thousands and sent them off to labour camps to die.
Remember that putin was a KGB agent in east germany, he knows that without the power to take radical measures he is weak and cannot protect his country.
The Russians cannot expect the same kind of security as that they enjoyed in the soviet union.

For greater security they must sacrifice some of their rights. Russia is different, they look for a strong leader to lead from the front not one who gives only moral support.

Originally posted by bodebliss
Putin,
Has said publicly in interviews that he does not want to see a return to the good old days and would gladly reduce nuke arsenals to near nothing if the U.S. follows, but the U.S. has balked and is only grudgingly helping to demolish the ones that are already slated to be destroyed.

It's the U.S. ,I think that fears a peaceful Russia especially w/ a hegmonic CCP-china running around.

Bode

Really? has he said that? Well, what i have read of him says otherwise, that he is nostalgic for the old days...

He spoke almost nostalgically for the old days of tight Soviet border policing.

"Our country, which used to have the strongest defence system of its external borders, instantly became unprotected from either the West or the East," he lamented.

If there was any admission of failure, it was that he had not been tough enough.

Excerpted from.
news.bbc.co.uk...

About nuclear disarmament....you have got to be kidding if you think he means that.... and i hope no president of the US falls for this...

You also have to note that this is exactly what Russian military defectors say is the reason why the Kremlim decided to make the world believe communism collapsed in the Soviet Union, they wanted the US to let down its guard and get rid of nukes as well as cut down our defenses among other things, and part of it worked.

I have made several threads, Phoenix has also made threads about this, showing the information that these defectors are giving us. There is not just one of these Russian defectors who are saying this, but there are several, and their information has been backed by others.

I am puting links to some of these threads. The following link has a lot of information concerning this deception.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is an excerpt from the above link.

"Nagorno-Karabag: A Case Study in "Perestroika"
by Dennis R. Papazian, Ph.D.
Dr. Dennis R. Papazian is a professor of Soviet history, the founder/director of the Armenian Research Center at The University of Michigan, Dearborn, and a member of the faculty of the Center for Russian and East European Studies at The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. This paper is a preliminary draft/study written for oral delivery at the annual conference of the AAASS in Washington, DC, Friday, October 19, 1990."


"More recently, Anatoliy Golitsyn, a Soviet defector of high status, has suggested that the Soviet Union is capable of disinformation on such a massive scale that even the Borkenau system is no longer viable.2 In a book first published in 1984, and of necessity written before then, Golitsyn argues that the leadership of the whole Communist bloc came to an agreement in 1958 in which it established a long range program, a master plan, which it would realize through a large scale deception of the West, a monumental scam.

Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.3 "

The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."7 "

Original link of above can be found at.
www.umd.umich.edu...


Anyways...were the people of Russia the ones to choose president Putin? or was it his predecesor, Boris Yeltsin, who choose him as successor and then remember the magicaly 1991 coup by communist hardliners, where 8 people decided to "save the country," which led the Russian people and the world think communism was dead.

Lets take a look at who Vladimir Putin is and how he became president in Russia.

Former KGB spy Vladimir Putin � named prime minister in August 1999 and chosen by President Boris Yeltsin as his preferred successor � is not well know either in Russia or abroad.
An official biography released by the Kremlin gave just four lines of chronological information and included a gap of 21 years, from 1975 to 1996.
Yet, prior to his appointment, Putin was one of the most powerful men in the Kremlin � in a quiet, behind-the-scenes way.

Excerpted from.
abcnews.go.com...

Chosen by Vladimir Putin humm, he wasn't really chosen by the people?
Were there any rivals for presidency in Russia? what did they have to say?

The following is excerpted from above link.

�Making public the name of the preferred successor one year ahead of elections either means that Yeltsin has decided that all the power will go to an emergency organ and Putin would become, for instance, a dictator, without any presidential election.�
Moscow Mayor Yurii Luzhkov, a probable rival for the presidency.

This year, Michael Stephens Ivan Rybkin, Putin's rival claimed that he had been kidnapped, this made news all over the world but somehow it slip from the news and that i know of nothing else has been said about this.

Then Putin made another move in which he restricted free speech even more in Russia. Below is a link where information can be found about this.

NEWS: Russia Takes Another Step into Silencing Free Speech.


[edit on 20-9-2004 by Muaddib]

The former soviet union was a cess pool of corruption and the emergence of a new Russia did not vanquish this corruption. I for one did not see this transistion of socialism to demoracry happening without major problems.
Now we have the ugly form of Islam creeping upon the fledgling democratic regime. How do the soviets fight this insidious evil? I believe by what the government is doing will not errode the path of democracy but only slow down its progress.

Russia has to militarize a bit if they plan to keep the West out of the Caucuses.

Kinda like the US has to militarize a bit to steel the population for, as Cheney said, a lifetime struggle against terrorism. lol.

kinda liked not living under the shadow of nukes pointed at me on tight alert.

Good thing you weren't looking at China....

Something tells me the Russians aren't exactly looking forward to bread lines again all... No doubt their brand of democracy will include some socialistic reforms as well... Despite what many think, socialism and communism are not synonymous...

I wouldn't say Islam is an "insidious evil", but EXTREMIST Islam is the evil. There are many native muslims, not of the extremist variety.

Originally posted by Muaddib
quote:He spoke almost nostalgically for the old days of tight Soviet border policing.

"Our country, which used to have the strongest defence system of its external borders, instantly became unprotected from either the West or the East," he lamented.

If there was any admission of failure, it was that he had not been tough enough.

The Putin quote I was thinking of was when he said on CNN that he was not interested in returning to the old soviet style government nor did he have a desire to add territory.

Everyone ,but G. Bush (who wants to open our borders to millions of mexicans) want tighter borders here. Some want to return to a time when you could shoot illegals on sight.

Bode



[edit on 9/20/2004 by bodebliss]