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I am slightly confused. Looking for Info

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posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by tommyjo
reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


Take a look through the following timeline. Persistent contrails have existed for a very long time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


That is excellent material, and a clear sign that the science is seriously looked at and discussed among all those professionals who say 'chemtrails' are not real. A worthy post.




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Thank you for the very kind reply.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by signalfire
While I'd be willing to accept that the longlasting effect of 'chemtrails' is only a function of altitude, temperature and humidity conditions at the height the plane was flying, what gets me is that the 'chemtrails' are often criss-crossing designs, and flight paths don't do that, at least not around here. ...


If you see my earlier post then your post is exactly what I am referring to in regards to criss-crossing. It is sadly complete lack of aviation knowledge that causes this confusion. Upper air routes do cross each other and also flights such as the military can be cleared to fly above those upper air routes. If those aircraft are producing persistent contrails then you will get the classic patterns and x-shapes.

How often do we see this type of post on ATS? People claiming that they don't live near an airport or have no idea the routes above them. It is purely down to the lack of knowledge on Air Traffic Control and upper air routes. In general a complete lack of understanding of aviation across the board.

These aircraft are legally separated using the air routes in the following video. Even this video is hard for some die-hard chemtrailers to understand or work out!



Here is a chemtrail chap in the UK. He wasn't even aware that a busy transatlantic upper route was in his vicinity. It is the general ignorance of aviation that perpetuates the myth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


thank you very much for the links to the patents. i believe those to be very relevant to the debate.

i also appreciate the insight from maxmars, thank you

i did not start this thread to find the final answer, or to watch us all come to some sort of unanimous decision collectively lol...what i was searching for i have received, many new links to sources of information for my own research. i thank everyone who has posted sources, and i encourage anyone to contribute any sort of knowledge relevant to the discussion.

while i respect all peer reviewed academic material, i value much greater the knowledge i gain from independent research. that is the most rewarding education for me, and i appreciate all of the help i am receiving.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by signalfire
 


Have a look through skyvector. You'll be amazed at the air routes in the US. You'll never get the fraudsters and hoaxers on the internet providing links to Skyvector! I wonder why that it?


skyvector.com...



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Why on earth would fantasy be a factor as evidence of whether something exists or not?!!





is that a serious question? without fantasizing on traveling through the air, we would have no planes...without fantasizing on whats in the sky, we would never have space exploration....without fantasizing on cornering a business market and making millions, we would not have most the millionairs we have today

i believe fantasy to be a valid perspective, in the context in presented...as a means to thinking outside of the box
edit on 28-2-2012 by JAsay1LOVE because: clarify



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


skyvector was a nice link...thank you



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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I'm a huge non-believer in chemtrails, as a rule. That is not to say the government hasn't sprayed the skies with something here and there for some experimental purposes - cloud seeding, whatever.

However, the thing that bugs me is the minions of complete and utter ignorants who point to the sky at every commercial flight that leaves a CONTRAIL and scream "Look, chemtrails, CHEMTRAILS!"

Morons.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


In the course of your research be aware of Tanker Enemy. Ask yourself why he has comment pending approval on his videos? By all means watch his videos, but take into consideration that he is presenting mis-leading videos that nobody is allowed to contest. During your research you will find claims of unmarked aircraft and even the bizarre claims of holograms involved with 'chemtrails'. See following.

tankerenemy.blogspot.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by AwakeinNM
 


lol funny you mention that...i have recorded many hours of "lines in the sky", whether they be already made, or in the process of the (sometimes) multiple planes creating them...

however...

inter mixed in with what i would consider "serious" filming, i also have several clips of people pointing at clearly commercial planes leaving without a doubt contrails and them yelling out, "chemtrails, chemtrails!!" lol

while i believe they exist, i do not believe my self to be OVERLY ignorant lol...ill admit to slightly, but either way the trail leads me, im trying to learn lol



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


thanks for the advice. ill def check out the links this evening



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE
reply to post by tommyjo
 


skyvector was a nice link...thank you


No problem. Thanks for the replies in the thread.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Why on earth would fantasy be a factor as evidence of whether something exists or not?!!





is that a serious question? without fantasizing on traveling through the air, we would have no planes...without fantasizing on whats in the sky, we would never have space exploration....without fantasizing on cornering a business market and making millions, we would not have most the millionairs we have today

i believe fantasy to be a valid perspective, in the context in presented...as a means to thinking outside of the box

There is a difference between imagining what is possible and then making it happening, and fantasising.

Fantasising may indeed be an inspiration to action - but it is not evidence of chemtrail - it is fantasy.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


i wasnt trying to say fantasy= proof of chemtrails lol

but i believe fantasy become relevant when one has the fantastic idea, and the means to acquire patents and equipment to put action to the idea, and the means to compartmentalize, and control the actions towards realizing the idea...thats when i begin to believe in the plausibility of chemtrails being, or becoming a reality



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird

And no.....there are so such things as "chemtrails".....each and every instance of something being claimed as such turn out to be nothing but normal, ordinary condensation trails...contrails.


Wow, what an informative post! I was looking for any proof you might have. Any at all...
for "each and every instance".



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by ProudBird

And no.....there are so such things as "chemtrails".....each and every instance of something being claimed as such turn out to be nothing but normal, ordinary condensation trails...contrails.


Wow, what an informative post! I was looking for any proof you might have. Any at all...
for "each and every instance".


The biggest piece of "proof" is that the supposed chemtrails look and behave exactly as contrails always have. For example in this forty year old British book on clouds:

picasaweb.google.com...

Of course they could be spraying something that looks exactly like a contrail. But similarly the cats in my neighborhood could be robot cats that just look exactly like real cats.

If there's no difference between chemtrails and contrails, then what's there to believe in?



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


my thoughts exactly...

i appreciate the replay and linked information, uncinus, where would you point as, in your opinion, the best place to begin to research clouds and contrails historically?



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


Well said. I just can't wait till someone proves this right lol



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 





inter mixed in with what i would consider "serious" filming, i also have several clips of people pointing at clearly commercial planes leaving without a doubt contrails and them yelling out, "chemtrails, chemtrails!!" lol


Yes, I agree that many normal contrails are mistaken for chemtrails.

Chemtrails are indeed still contrails but persist and spread in an abnormal way than most contrails.

It is very very rare for a normal contrail to persist more than 45 minutes to an hour. It is highly likely that if you see a contrail that lasts more than an hour then it can be labeled a chemtrail.




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


i wasnt trying to say fantasy= proof of chemtrails lol

but i believe fantasy become relevant when one has the fantastic idea, and the means to acquire patents and equipment to put action to the idea, and the means to compartmentalize, and control the actions towards realizing the idea...thats when i begin to believe in the plausibility of chemtrails being, or becoming a reality


IMO fantasy isn't even useful for that - examining what is actually real is more than sufficient.

The possibility that invisible reptilian spacecraft are spreading invisible odourless undetectable gas that changes us in undetectable ways until suddenly at 3.51.42 am on January 15th 3154 (UTC) we all turn into nutritional jelly for them is a fantasy.

chemtrails as posited do not require fantasy - they are perfectly capable of existing with known technology and social systems.

the lack of evidence for them requires no fantasy either.




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