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I am slightly confused. Looking for Info

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posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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I'm wrong about it being visible... Admitted
edit on 28-2-2012 by Enemyc0mbatant because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by Enemyc0mbatant
 

Steam is not water vapor. Water vapor is invisible.
Steam is a cloud of very small water droplets, as are clouds.
martinz.wordpress.com...



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Phage
 


Oh, my idea that some airlines geoengineering budget did not come from that
report. That fact came from a letter to the editor of The Financial Times.

Here for instance, a larger airline that has been advising into the initiative for
over a decade, according to the owner.


Throughout the continental US, dozens of tanker and other aircraft are daily applying thousands of gallons of aerosol nano-particulates that serve several objectives, including the purported ability to reflect UV radiation. Similar operations are being conducted in Canada and parts of Europe source


Matthew Andersson, of Indigo Airlines
Founder, Aviation veteran and University of
Chicago graduate.
en.wikipedia.org...


Indigo airlines was never a "large airline" - AFAIK at its height it had 4 Falcon and 2 Legacy jets.

Anderson never backed up his statement with any evidence and, again AFAIK, never repeated it, and there has never been any follow up on it beyond it being repeated by people claiming it as proof of chemtrails.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Enemyc0mbatant

What are you rolling about? You just said it yourself that it is visible. You see it then it quickly evaporates. I don't need a biology teacher to tell me this.


Oh dear....

I just said liquid water and solid water are visible.

Water vapour is gas - neither liquid nor solid. It is invisible - try this for size:


What is water vapor?
Water vapor is water in its gaseous state-instead of liquid or solid (ice). Water vapor is totally invisible. If you see a cloud, fog, or mist, these are all liquid water, not water vapor.




posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 

When the air is highly saturated with water vapor (high humidity) the ice crystals which are formed by the water vapor present in the jet exhaust act as "seeds", triggering the formation of more crystals from that ambient vapor.

The conditions which are conducive to this (high humidity, lower temperatures) often precede a warm (or cold) front, in addition an approaching system often is heralded by an increase in natural cirrus. This is why lower level clouds eventually appear. So yes, contrail formation can be used as a form of weather prediction but it is the weather which causes the contrails, not the contrails which cause the weather.
cf.synergylearning.org...

edit on 2/28/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


thank you for the information and link. the more facts i review the more not probable the theory shows, but still something lingering in my mind, and i believe something i haven't recognized in the information is keeping this feeling alive. when does intuition become a factor in investigation? i would think it is quite relevant.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 

I don't think intuition has a place in a rational and logical analysis.
Feelings lie, as do our eyes as well as our memories.
edit on 2/28/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


i acknowledge your position, but i would have to respectfully disagree. I trust the voice inside me, at least to this point it has not failed me any more than anything else, most cases less. you will probably disagree but i would have to argue that detectives convict criminals based off facts, but utilize intuition in pursuing their suspect. intuition does have its place



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE
many times when i see the thick long lines forming, they begin as solid, more thin, lines; however, as time progresses, the lines begin to spread out, and occupy more space. the once thin checkerboard patterns enlarge to thick checkerboards, and then after a day or two, the sky is completely covered in clouds...yet these clouds look more like haze, greyish in color, and sit noticeably lower in the sky. you can see this by looking into the horizon and seeing big white clouds and sun shine above them.


If you look at weather forecasting, and look at how it used to be done, you can learn a lot. Usually, (not always) preceding a frontal system, you will have a much higher chance for persistent contrails. They will literally fill the sky. Then, right on time, the next day, cloudy sky and most likely the rain.

You will see people here talking about how "they spray" and it causes storms the next day. But if you look at the jet stream and understand where weather comes from, there is no way anything that happened in the sky on Monday could affect the same patch of sky on Tuesday. Wind gets in the way of that.

Good luck on you quest and thanks for an enjoyable thread.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


thank you. point taken



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdRock69
reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 





inter mixed in with what i would consider "serious" filming, i also have several clips of people pointing at clearly commercial planes leaving without a doubt contrails and them yelling out, "chemtrails, chemtrails!!" lol


Yes, I agree that many normal contrails are mistaken for chemtrails.

Chemtrails are indeed still contrails but persist and spread in an abnormal way than most contrails.

It is very very rare for a normal contrail to persist more than 45 minutes to an hour. It is highly likely that if you see a contrail that lasts more than an hour then it can be labeled a chemtrail.



Actually it is highly unlikely. *When conditions are right*, the particulate matter in ordinary contrails will spawn clouds, just as clouds will form naturally - the particulate gives the moisture something to adhere to and form clouds, and then clouds will continue to grow from them. That does not automatically mean that the contrails have any different chemical composition than any other jet exhaust.

Also, the video shows two planes at very different altitudes. Atmospheric conditions differ greatly at such disparate altitudes as shown in the video. Of course the contrails are going to act differently, but they are both CONTRAILS. When you have two contrails at the same altitude in the same part of the sky that act differently, let me know. Otherwise you're just being completely ignorant of meteorology.


edit on 28-2-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by AwakeinNM
 


oh man, late the stone throwing lol...i came to that realization a few posts back. i had never considered the difference in altitude to be as major a factor in the different types on trails...thank you though for re pointing that back out...someone else may have missed that from earlier



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
at its height it had 4 Falcon and 2 Legacy jets.


Source please?



Anderson never backed up his statement with any evidence and, again AFAIK, never repeated it


Not true.

He wrote another letter to The Economist:

The Co-Option of Global Warming

Comments by Matt Andersson


.www.economist.com...
Ever since the late Edward Teller co-authored the 1997 paper, “Global Warming and Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change,” the global warming industry has been on a global cooling agenda. Or at least that’s what they think.

Teller advocated for a massive application of metal particulates, among other materials, into the atmosphere to create a reflective “metallic sun screen” that results in lowered UV radiation and assumed cooling. But this metallic screen was also discovered to possess the inherent capability to act as a transmission or amplification “web” for various military directed energy weapons and for tactical weather modification, as well as a potential suspension and delivery medium for bio-warfare purposes, including depopulation. Together, these three agendas have become fused into a new self-reinforcing “iron triangle.” Every day across the US, Canada and many parts of Europe, high-altitude mission-specific tanker, civil and other aircraft are spraying hundreds of metric tons of polymerised and ionised sub-micron barium, thorium, uranium and aluminum, among other materials (including mercury and arsenic), under the ambiguity and abstraction of a benign UN public-private atmospheric and geo-engineering program directed at countering “global warming.”

Warming and "climate change" is the lead retail rationale, but it is a ruse. It can be easily rationalised and integrated into large established scientific, academic, government and industrial professional, political and social networks. It positions well into public communication and messaging, and is subsumed into humanitarian and emotional social management themes with low or relatively isolated and unorganised public resistance. Institutionalisation and abstraction is central to achieving passive cooperation. Psychological management of the program actors (like the abstraction of concentration camp “doctors” or “medicalised” experiments) uses a traditional blend of diffusion, targeted power motivation, deception and abstraction and Aesopian language and ambiguity routines, for enablers. The material suppliers are merely embedded in normalised commercial and military purchasing routines and formatting. The reality of the "Globe Warming and Climate Change" agenda is that climate is being manipulated to warm and modify parts of the globe in service to resource manipulation and extraction.

The earth may or may not be naturally warming, and industrial human activity may or may not be causal. But one thing appears rather clear: the atmospheric domain is under human institutional influence if not increasingly direct technical manipulation and control. That power is not in service to society or under open accountability: it serves special interests in the pursuit of power, profit and control. And you’re in the way.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 

Any time you burn something, there are emissions. I don't care how high or low or clean you burn it it will make exhaust that can be detected at some level. This report cites a multitude of tests run on a variety of engines and propellants at varying speeds and a summation in chart form of a variety of compounds that were detected...

(ON THE GROUND):


One must understand that these compounds would be far less(?) (how less?) prevalent at altitude in their respective jet engine's optimum efficiency environment... but detectable nonetheless in some amount. How many tons a year of that crap is raining down on our heads is the question. These ARE chemicals by the way and invisible to the naked eye as far as it goes. Jet engines, military or civilian, produce exhaust full time regardless of altitude, type of fuel, engine, and other atmospheric conditions. Nothing burns "totally clean" whether we see some sort of vapor trail or not.

exhaust emissions



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 


very relevant point imo. thank you for the graph and the link. this is a different perspective i am interested in researching



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


These threads move so fast it's hard to keep up with all the posts sometimes.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
at its height it had 4 Falcon and 2 Legacy jets.


Source please?


The wiki article on Indigo for the 4 Falcons, and here for the 2 Legacy's




Anderson never backed up his statement with any evidence and, again AFAIK, never repeated it


Not true.

He wrote another letter to The Economist:

The Co-Option of Global Warming

Comments by Matt Andersson


.www.economist.com...




Ah - I knew of that but had thought it the same letter - OK - thanks for the correction.

Basically he said the same thing twice in quick succession.

But he still hasn't provided any actual evidence - none-the-less he is at least a known person who can be quizzed - and if there's a case to answer he can give evidence under oath.

So where's the case being built around his testimony?
edit on 28-2-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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If you are ever confused just look up and you will see that the "contrails" vary I have defined 3 types all which release different chemicals intended for different effects. Type 1 is the blanket type they leave long clearly visible trails which over the course of a few hours turn into clouds. Type 2 are not lengthy but short trails which later grow into clouds and type 3 is short with no trail further than 300 meters or so behind the plane these trails are likely laced with heavy metals since they are the most common. On days when type 1 and 2 trails are sprayed we notice the temperature is much higher clouds act as a blanket.



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by JAsay1LOVE
reply to post by intrptr
 

very relevant point imo. thank you for the graph and the link. this is a different perspective i am interested in researching

Yah, don't let anyone fool you... if it burns, it "out gasses". The different factions of "chemtrail-dom" argue their respective points passionately, burying the data under a ton of responses so to speak. I just googled "jet exhaust composition" and got buried by a ton of data...

www.google.com...



posted on Feb, 28 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
and if there's a case to answer he can give evidence under oath.

So where's the case being built around his testimony?[


Why would there be a "case"? What he describes is carried out under the auspice of the
U.N. program, and its not against the law.

Thats not to say that its good for us. not to say that it wont harm us.
If indeed this is taking place it is a true crime against humanity.


.www.economist.com...

this metallic screen was also discovered to possess the inherent capability to act as a transmission or amplification “web” for various military directed energy weapons and for tactical weather modification, as well as a potential suspension and delivery medium for bio-warfare purposes, including depopulation.

Together, these three agendas have become fused into a new self-reinforcing “iron triangle.” Every day across the US, Canada and many parts of Europe, high-altitude mission-specific tanker, civil and other aircraft are spraying hundreds of metric tons of polymerised and ionised sub-micron barium, thorium, uranium and aluminum, among other materials (including mercury and arsenic), under the ambiguity and abstraction of a benign UN public-private atmospheric and geo-engineering program directed at countering “global warming.”


Warming and "climate change" is the lead retail rationale, but it is a ruse.


You see, this is part of a to date secretive program, and there is no transparency.


That power is not in service to society or under open accountability


Maybe his conscience is bothering him.



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