Sheriff: Shooting at Ohio school; victims unknown

Reports coming in now say a 3rd has died.
Im about 30 min sw of Chardon. Its been horrible.

reply to post by TheRedneck


oh, I agree the shooter should be locked up by all means. Taking a life is taking a life no matter how mislead one may seem to be. I was trying to illustrate that sometimes, given the environment a child grows up in they can turn violent, etc. However once the action has taken place, there is nothing left to do but hold someone accountable. I do not have children so I couldn't even imagine what it would be like to lose one, nor would I want to, as I imagine it is beyond what words can describe. What is confusing me is that initial reports said these kids were injured but not gravely... this is very sad, and my thoughts are with the families.

eta: what! a third has died? this is terrible

reply to post by mr-lizard


I do as I please...Thank you.

Originally posted by Alyssa

Originally posted by starviego
Here is the profile of these kinds of shooters:


--Friends may notice abrupt changes in mood in the days and weeks before the shooting. He may have complained that lately he has experienced strange and vivid dreams of a violent nature.

--He will be dressed in all black and/or camoflage, oftentimes with a black trenchcoat.

--Eyewitnesses at the scene will say the shooter was 'like a robot,' or that there were a totally blank expression on his face.

--The media will paint him as a loner, but he will in fact have a circle of friends or be part of a clique.

--Extra ammo/guns/bombs will be found at his home and in his auto(this to 'close the circle' of guilt in the public's mind). The guns will have been legally acquired by the shooter or a close relative/neighbor. He will have brought an excessive quantity of ammunition to the scene. (This is so that, if he has 200rounds of ammo, people will think "Wow, he must have wanted to kill 200 people. What a nut!")

--Literature and/or videos about Adolph Hitler, Charles Manson(infamous American cult leader), or the Columbine killers will be found amongst his possessions.

--He will be computer-savvy, and likely left an online presence. He may have left some kind of manifesto, though it will be incomprehensible/nonsensical for the most part. He will have hinted at what he had planned, but the name of the target itself will not be mentioned.

--He will probably have been a player of violent video games, and will have been a fan of violence-themed movies. He will have produced his own videos in which he is seen with his weapons or expressing his hatred and/or violence.

--He will have a strong interest in weapons--guns, knives, swords, bombs--or the military.

--He will have had contact with a military recruiter or he will have spent some time in the military before being seperated under murky circumstances.

--There is a good chance he will have been active in "Live Action Role Playing"(LARP) games.

--He will have been mentally "treated" at some point by a counselor, psychologist, or a psychiatrist.

--He will have a history of taking SSRIs(selective seritonin reuptake inhibitors), often in combination with Ritalin(methylphenidate).

--There is some likelihood that he was institutionalized or hospitalized at some point before the attack. At any rate there will gaps in the timeline where police cannot account for his whereabouts.

--He probably had some contact with the police/law enforcement before the shooting.

--He might have been involved with Satanism or other strange occultic-type religions.

--If he survived the assault, he will be unable to explain why he did what he did. He may claim that 'voices' in his head told him to do it. Or he may not even remember the act at all. But whether the shooter lives or dies, motive will always remain a mystery.

--He will NOT have acted alone. There is a good possibility others were shooting also; or at the very least others will have encouraged him and helped plan the attack and get weapons.

--Afterwards, the politicians will call for increased laws against gun ownership, more armed security personnel everywhere, and metal detectors at the school/mall.

This is mostly flawed and I'll tell you why. Almost all the school shooters had Omega-male traits. Omega-males in the animal kingdom are below the beta males. It's these guys that normally are thin, short, sad family history, they are always the targets of bullies.

Schools are and will always be like the animal kingdom.
-Alpha males at school = The popular kids, macho guys, tall handsome guys, the guys who get the girls,
-Beta Males at school = teachers pet, bullies, mostly the average kids rank here
-Omega male students = Unloved, thin or overweight, short, no friends, sometimes in special-ed, These kids are the targets on both Beta/Alpha's. Life in general will suck for these guys when they get older also.

That is not true!

What scientific evidence do you have to backup this asinine and pseudo-data?

I feel bad for the families of the victims but I have less sympathy for most of you commenting and the families of those that killed the kids.
Why? Because those families and the rest of you appear to think its normal that children have access to guns. Not ONE of you guys here mentioned this and some of you claim that as children you had access to guns and its perfectly normal. There is something wrong with US society when children kill children and nobody does anything about it.

You all take the same mystified approach every single time and nothing changes. 'Oh it never happened when I was at school', 'We should put that kid in an electric chair', Or the completely bone headed - 'They must have done it because of gun control?' And then another massacre happens and then same thing repeats as all the dum dums scratch their heads over and over again.

Now stop for a minute and think beyond the mainstream thinking of your society. Popsamyhem had a point with that song, though it was hard to swallow. Your society is built upon the idea of a gun being an equalizer, that the gun does not allow one man to domiate another whether it be government or the town bully. Is it surprising for example if a kid is unfairly bullied and has access to a gun that he draws a conclusion that the way to stop it is to shoot the bully? It may not be the case here but its a fact that other school shootings have been from kids that were bullied.There is very often logic, if twisted, in what seems like senseless violence.

Its like most of you forgot what it was like to be children - like the reactionary answer to this is to control your children completely. Forget control, by understanding them you get a much better chance to influence their decisions. And for God's sake keep your guns locked up until they are out of school.
Its not damn rocket science. Sorry if this gets up your nose, it gets up mine, but guess what, it doesn't happen in almost every other country on the planet (including mine), I don't want it to happen in the US either, the people deserve better. Or don't you agree?

Don't just get upset or angry, do something about it, think about what needs to change. I'm serious start putting sensible ideas out there.

Official confirmation of death of 2nd victim

Second victim dies

The die has been cast for quite a while now, and regardless of why the first 10 of these attacks happened, this is how the bullied kid knows he can get even, and for a few, this is how they will get even. If your kid is a bully, then warn him/her to cut the sh*t so that they won't end up dead. I'm serious. The shooters are messed up, but they didn't get messed up on their own. These shootings aren't ever happening in a vacuum. They're provoked, and even though the results are way out of proportion to the incitement, the hard fact is that they are happening, and we all need to protect out Alpha and Beta kids from being hunted down by the kids they might be (but hopefully aren't) targeting for daily abuse.

I was teaching a poll worker training class last fall, and this one idiot (before class) was on a rant about "political correctness" in his kid's school, and his kid getting his ears clipped for bullying some other kid. I just reminded him that since Columbine, the school are sensitive to the issue of bullying, and that it's in an effort to keep the school shooting to a minimum. He thought I was nuts to even suggest that it could ever happen here. I live in Ohio. Not in that NE Cleveland suburb, but in an area that's not much different than that one, or any of the others ones where these shootings have become almost an annual occurrence. He just didn't see what was wrong with a little bullying "Hell, we had bullies and no one got shot when I was a kid." I hope his kid doesn't make the papers some day for being one among a death toll from one of these sprees.

Back then, the shootings hadn't become a go-to option for a kid who probably doesn't want to survive the school year anyway. Now, it's the one way to go if you're suicidal anyway, and if that suicidal option is due to how miserable you believe other kids have made you. Teenagers' brains are not fully developed yet. The areas of the brain responsible for most critical judgment capacities aren't even activated yet. Put a gun in a teen's hands, and you're taking a real risk (depending on that teen, of course). The appreciation of long term ramifications connected to immediate actions is one of the last functions to become activated within the human brain, and it's extremely rare for a highschool kid to have that cognitive capacity. That's the one brain functionality that will stop a really angry, isolated shooter from hosing down the lunchroom with an assalt rifle. That's something to think about.

They shoot in schools now because they've been shooting in schools now long enought to make it seem almost acceptable to those kids who see no other option. The precedence has been established, and now it's up to parents to train their kids to not become prey for one of these killers by being a predator bully, or by allowing their friends to be predator bullies. It's just not safe to be an *sshole in high school anymore.

reply to post by freethinker123


I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Kids having access to guns is completely insane no matter what things may have been like in the 'good ol' days'

Your constitutional right to bear arms is completed outdated, but it seems this is more important than the life of your children and citizens.

Not being from the states, I don't understand it.

Yet another tragic school shooting that probably could have been avoided had a 17 year old not have access to firearms. A 17 year old cannot buy a gun legally, so unless this gun was obtained on the streets that means he probably got it from his parents. The arguments going on across the country about his has two sides like all these stories, should we just plain and simple ban guns or lay down stricter laws on gun control?


Simply put, I HATE excuses and don't allow them in my life. If you can afford guns but not a safe, then don't buy guns. If you allow your child to access your gun, the punishment should be an AUTOMATIC 20 years behind bars. No appeals, no crying, no whining, no butt wiping, no excuses, no excuses, no excuses, and again in case I havne't mentioned it no excuses. Oh wait, before I forget, NO EXCUSES!!!! Lock away your guns from your kids or go and think about it for a solid 20.

reply to post by Imightknow


How come you never hear about school shootings in the country then? If guns in kids hands were the problem, then country schools would be like the wild west. Except it isn't, and most of us start shooting at 8-10 with a .22, around 5 if you count bb and pellet guns...

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Imightknow

 

How come you never hear about school shootings in the country then? If guns in kids hands were the problem, then country schools would be like the wild west. Except it isn't, and most of us start shooting at 8-10 with a .22, around 5 if you count bb and pellet guns...

Exactly! As I said earlier in this thread, in my highschool there were guns visible in the parking lot. This is before it was illegal to actually have a gun rack with guns in your vehicle.

No one ever got shot at my highschool. EVER. Plenty of parking lot fist fights, but no guns and no knives.

I think collectively some of the posters in this thread have identified some pretty good reasons why this is happening.

My thoughts and prayers to the victims, their families, and even for the shooter and his family. In a way the young men who perpetrate these crimes are victims too... I think until we recognize that we will see this more and more often.

I believe this all could have been avoided had this young man had the gumption to stand up and fight those who bullied him instead of going the COWARD'S WAY OUT! ...but once again this is something that is NORMALLY TAUGHT IN THE HOME by a big brother, Uncle or Father and is backed-up by the Mother...I knew it was in my home.

COURAGE, STRENGTH and VALOR are VALUES, VIRTUES and MORAL FORTITUDES that are not taught in the home anymore like back in my days so these kids come out of their homes timid and weary of the world and its inhabitants.

Wow, how the ways of the world have gone astray and are lost with the ESSENTIAL CORE TEACHINGS that were once known and taught with the alphabet.

*****Updates*****

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Originally posted by Lapislazuli
@ Morningglory:

I think there are better ways to deal with a violent youth than "locking him up and throwing away the key." We are all simply products of our environment, and sometimes that environment is a very dark, and disturbing one. The product, however, should not be entirely blamed.

I wanted to say this ^

From what I've read on the suspected shooter, he only had his Grandparents, parents had passed away or weren't present in his life, didn't have any friends, and was perhaps suffering from a type of depression or personality disorder on top of bullying. The environment for some is a harsh, bitter plane where nothing but greys and reds are vomited onto the rest of the setting. A dark, cold place that clearly had its effect for him to do this - if it was the one they're referring to.

It is only ignorant to assume, but this is absolutely horrible and I feel for all those affected on a deep level.

Now confirmed.....
The third victim has died...rest in peace Demetrius...

Originally posted by damingus
Now confirmed.....
The third victim has died...rest in peace Demetrius...

R.I.P. Demetrius...

And let the Anti-video game flame war..... BEGIN!!!!

I graduated from Chardon High less than two years ago. I'm a Sophomore in college now.

Despite what people may say, Chardon is a wonderful city. The people are nice and it has a lot to offer if you get involved the right way (e.g. community theatre, music, etc).

It is disturbing to know that this kid had to resort to this. I vaguely knew him too. He "dated" my little cousin way back when they were in 6th grade, and at the time we would poke fun at my cousin for having a "boyfriend". We even made up a little song (partly helped along by my cousin) about him. It was in no way bullying and I'm sure he never even knew about it as we only teased my cousin with it.

Of course they weren't "dating" longer then 2 weeks, but the song we made up has kind of stuck as a cousin inside joke that only we understood. I had forgotten who had prompted the creation of the song and was abruptly reminded yesterday.

It's disturbing.

Originally posted by djh91
I graduated from Chardon High less than two years ago. I'm a Sophomore in college now.

Despite what people may say, Chardon is a wonderful city. The people are nice and it has a lot to offer if you get involved the right way (e.g. community theatre, music, etc).

It is disturbing to know that this kid had to resort to this. I vaguely knew him too. He "dated" my little cousin way back when they were in 6th grade, and at the time we would poke fun at my cousin for having a "boyfriend". We even made up a little song (partly helped along by my cousin) about him. It was in no way bullying and I'm sure he never even knew about it as we only teased my cousin with it.

Of course they weren't "dating" longer then 2 weeks, but the song we made up has kind of stuck as a cousin inside joke that only we understood. I had forgotten who had prompted the creation of the song and was abruptly reminded yesterday.

It's disturbing.

I have to agree. I used to work in Chardon. Beautiful city...

The "shooter" had issues. He lived with his grandmother and was in a special class or group of some sort. Not making excuses...the kid deserves to die. Just, PLEASE, dont compare Chardon to Cleveland in any way...
What happened to "meet me at the flag pole at 3pm and we will settle this"? They had their crew, I had mine, and made sure nobody jumped in. Now, well.....we settle with a gun? F-ed up.

I'm completely confused here.

I don't know if it was posted here, but a quick search will find it in seconds. There's a photo that somebody posted to Twitter they're saying, others say a chat site. It shows a guy who claims to be named Bill Fabianski, holding a sign that is saying High School Massacre, but the school's name is blurred out. However I saw the original sized image and I swear.

The first two letters look to clearly be Ch.

The Fabianski kid said what he was going to do, and said this was his manifesto. The Bill character looks a lot like the TJ Lane suspect, but they are clearly two different people all the same, one who we can assume is in custody, the other who is off somewhere else.

If you Google Bill Fabianski, it brings you to a Facebook 4 chan fan page of sorts made by a William Fabianski, though you only see that in Google Search, he changed it. I'm totally confused. Two kids who look alike but are different people. One has motive to cause a shooting or is "trolling", the other seems innocent, but is being characterized as the shooter based on his music interest, and one piece of poetry dating back to late December.

A photo of TJ hugging a bear on Valentines Day, another of him getting jacked, and reports of him having been doubling his classes for an early graduation. We have one guy admitting he'll do something, but we're unsure if he's serious, and then we have this TJ teen. It's not impossible to query Facebook by schools and pick a look alike - and that's what's on my mind.

I'm sure it'll be announced in time, but I hope this wasn't an act of framing someone innocent, and I really hope that these aren't two separate school shooting investigations.