WTC 7 was IMPLODED : irrefutable seismic evidence from LDEO and NIST itself.

reply to post by LaBTop
It gets pretty damn old to see the same group of people making lame arguments and personal attacks to keep the truth from coming out.

LaBTop there are people out hear rooting for you and others that bring these threads to ats and fight for the truth.
I commend you on all the work you've put into this thread,it's a blessing to have tenascious posters like you that contribute well thoughtout researched material....Good job,one way or the other the truth will rise above all the lies eventually.

Originally posted by dayve
I think i had it right the first time around, i could care less.. I'd rather know where carmen sandiego went with my wallet.... It was 11 years ago and people are done mourning, i think the "truth" should be left alone. We got the hijackers leave it at that.

Wow. Lots of people die, their families are still feeling it.. but according to dayve, they should suck it up, forget about their loved ones' murder, accept the official explanation and move on. Who needs the truth when dayve could care less?

I can't be the only one to find this post appalling.

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by Reheat

 

Because you are one of my top twenty suspects of having hacked my ATS account password here half of January, and publicize it on some upload site, together with a bus load of other valued ATS members their passwords. And to wipe part of my 9/11 research from my computer.

Bwhahaha! First time I've even had the dubious honor of being accused of being the dog who ate the homework. This time the dog not only ate the homework, but also ate the pencil and all of the paper in the notebook or printer and the book the homework was based on from nearly half way around the world. I'm laughing so hard I can hardly type.

Labtop, I too am very curious how I or anyone else hacked your HD to erase all of the data in addition to a memory stick backup. Seems to me the only entity capable of doing that is a Gubmint such as created the Stuxnet Worm. You're getting so close to the truth it's not surprising that the upper echelon of the US Gubmint would go to such lengths to destroy your material.

So, you're using the culprits at NIST's own data to discredit them. Since you believe they are guilty of deception, have you realized that they could have posted false timing data just to fool smart researchers such as yourself? Labtop keep posting and don't go away again. I'm impressed with the quality of your work. Money can't buy this kind of entertainment anywhere else....

reply to post by GenRadek


Please take the time to contemplate on a few things here.

There were videos showing people who said they stood on the perimeter line 4 blocks away from the WTC 7, who heard a man's Walkie Talkie in his hand loudly counting down, then the tower came down.
Don't you think that all the rescuers anywhere near WTC 7 would not start to shout through their radios to get out of there, when they also heard that count down? We commoners can be stupid at times, but not that stupid that we do not start to run when we hear a countdown in a time and place like that.
That's what this man also did, in his first reaction on the radio shouting, and then the booming started, and you and me know for sure that "the first cut is the deepest" as in that famous song.

And every right minded 9/11 conspiracy planner knows that after that first boom, he does not have to worry anymore about further booms, since those can be explained away by simply stating "you damn fool, of course you heard a lot of booms, what else would you hear when a 47 story steel building comes down in a gravitational collapse! "

And you know what, that first huge seismic peak can however not be argued away......And it was definitely 2 to 3 seconds before anything moved in that building, recorded on video or camera.
And no, it can't be a natural occurring event such as the snapping of ONE simple column nr 79 as NIST tries to convince us of, that would have been just a tiny peak on that seismogram, see what the global collapse did on that seismogram! When all its HUGE columns and crossbeams snapped, like we could see in the aftermath photos of the smoking heap of rubble left over of WTC 7.

There is thus also my seismogram showing you irrefutably (yes, I know you get nervous from such a stiff word) a huge seismic pack of peaks, 2 to 3 seconds (see the relative error remark) before in Manhattan anything moved up, along or inside that huge 47 stories steel based building.
Only 2 to 3 seconds later we see on that Cianca photo and in the NIST video, that the eastern penthouse roof line starts to sag down, which was the first irrefutable evidence that something had occurred in that building.

I hope you understand by now that that not linked to or source-named piece of info you posted ( but I know his name, Bartlett or something like that) logically must give a bended explanation of the real events, as can be seen in my irrefutable WTC 7 seismogram, which is basically a HUGE bunch of irrefutable facts you can not dance around enough to let it disappear.
My evidence outshouts yours.

So lets keep it to a somewhat memory-misinterpreting officer of the law (not unusual in the USA and elsewhere) who can not do anything else than admitting that he mixed up his memory a tad bit, the moment he will be confronted with my irrefutable evidence in the form of a LDEO certified seismogram, accepted by the whole global community of seismologists as a fact.

A last word on the matter. We may assume that the planners intended to let that building come to rest in such a neat constellation, and thus planted many explosive charges (be it HE or TB or both) which explain the row of booms this officer heard while fleeing.
This also indicates that it must have been bankers or such who had the reigns in hand, and not the military part of the conspiracy, since in that case they would have gone on with their business in a much rougher manner than we now have seen.

Originally posted by ninjas4321
reply to post by LaBTop

 

The only problem with your logic is this one: do you know how many bomb sniffing dogs would have detected the bombs?

You seem to avoid the starting thesis of this 9/11 CONSPIRACY forum, that a bunch of criminals planned the whole 9/11 events, and thus were powerful enough by design to introduce German shepherds with a defunct nasal system. Or any other trick to avoid such a minor problem.

The other problem, it seems that WTC 7 perhaps was a hasty job, and thus executed on the day itself. No problem with non-existing sniffing dogs thus. But I stick to the impaired German shepherds thesis, if you don't mind.

So far this is what I have seen in this thread.

A bunch of people trying to derail the thread.

People, accusing the OP of not answering another thread, and people who are constantly "appealing to authority" and telling the OP he has not the credentials to look into such a topic.


Can we get back on topic, and can anyone try and deal with the argument that Laptop has presented, or is the lack of answers to his argument--evidence that most of you are conceding his point because you have no arguments only ad hominem's>?

reply to post by LaBTop


The hackers ate your homework?

Originally posted by talisman
So far this is what I have seen in this thread.

A bunch of people trying to derail the thread.

People, accusing the OP of not answering another thread, and people who are constantly "appealing to authority" and telling the OP he has not the credentials to look into such a topic.


Can we get back on topic, and can anyone try and deal with the argument that Laptop has presented, or is the lack of answers to his argument--evidence that most of you are conceding his point because you have no arguments only ad hominem's>?

edit on 27-2-2012 by talisman because: (no reason given)

I love it. An off topic post complaining about off topic posts.

There have been numerous requests for proof of the assertions made by the OP which have been ignored. He offers NO PROOF of what amounts to assertions that there is irrefutable seismic evidence for his conclusions. In essence he has either ignored them or changed the subject with more assertions. Virtually everything presented is simply an assertion, not supported by anything other than the OP says so...

A barely audible rumble from 3-4 blocks away is reputed to be the loudest sound detected by a seismograph over 30 kilometers away during the collapse of the building because he says so? Atomic clocks are quite accurate and he needs no proof of that, but then he applies that timing to a visual estimate on a photograph when the margin for error is his estimated 3 seconds. That is the equivalent of measuring with a micrometer and cutting with an axe.

He offer such things as thermometric weapons were used where only a properly configured shaped charge would reliably cut steel beams and they were hush-a-boom as well without a shred of proof or evidence regarding how they were placed in a burning building that was in known danger of collapse for several hours prior to it's actual collapse. This is equivalent to monkey's throwing their waste against a wall hoping it will stick...

Then the pinnacle of hilarity is that the explosive detecting dogs were in on it. You are supporting a known poseur in this forum with a long history of similar threads. He has no expertise on the subject and while there is no problem with "looking into a subject matter" rational folks do have a problem with those who make assertions without credentials to make those assertions and with no proof to support those assertions....

If you're going to attempt to refute the experts who have investigated this issue, then extraordinary proof is required to do so.. In this thread there is no extraordinary proof, in fact there is little proof of anything that has been asserted.

You obviously don't known what an ad hominem is, so I suggest you look up the definition and understand it before you accuse someone of being guilty of making them again.

So far, all this thread deserves is "pointing and laughing". That's mostly what is happening and it is well deserved.

reply to post by samkent


seis·mol·o·gy (sz-ml-j)
n.
The geophysical science of earthquakes and the mechanical properties of the earth.


that being said a seismoligist is one who studies seismology. By the looks of this thread I'd say he did a pretty comprehensible study. Titles mean nothing.

Thanks for the post man,

As for all the Debunkers that have come out in force to cherry pick apart your post and in some case's resort to personal attacks screw them they are UN-American in my opinion. We should question everything.. PERIOD.

This world has gone to # since 9/11 if you can not see that even as a debunker then you live on another planet. Some of them seem pretty smart and are good at what they do but its so transparent its laughable. Dont let these shils get you down man the more truth you put out there or the closer you get to it the more they will come out and decry you.

Dont get me wrong I have not read all your stuff yet, my opinion on what you posted is up for grabs. I just find it hilarious and sad these guys focus down people who just want some honest answers. They must have a bat signal when a post comes up on this specific forum because I see them in no other threads.. Do you guys just lurk the 9/11 threads all day or what ? If he is so wrong why do you even bother yourselves?

Everyone who is still on the fence about 9/11 should read this: www.whale.to... Then read the debunkers threads/attacks/requests and ask your self who's side are they really on and who side is the OP on.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys
Thanks for the post man,

As for all the Debunkers that have come out in force to cherry pick apart your post and in some case's resort to personal attacks screw them they are UN-American in my opinion. We should question everything.. PERIOD.

Yes, lets ignore all critical questions and rational requests for evidence, embrace ignorance!

Some posts ago I asked for a source for his assertion that it is well known that explosives create much larger seismologic waves than a collapsing building. No answer. I also asked for a demonstration of those explosives that make no sound, don't show a blast wave, but do result in rumbling, and I asked how those explosives can be used to demolish a building. No answer.

If you think this is cherry picking, then you have issues with reality. Asking for evidence of claims is not cherry picking, it is how reality is discriminated from fantasy. Its also very hypocrite to accuse people of cherry picking and at the same time announce that we should question everything. So "everything" is just the things you are comfortable with to be questioning and all things that endanger your position should be left alone right? "Question everything, except my pet theory as I am always right.". No thanks, I rather question everything, especially far out theories truthers come with.

Dont get me wrong I have not read all your stuff yet, my opinion on what you posted is up for grabs. I just find it hilarious and sad these guys focus down people who just want some honest answers. They must have a bat signal when a post comes up on this specific forum because I see them in no other threads.. Do you guys just lurk the 9/11 threads all day or what ? If he is so wrong why do you even bother yourselves?[]/quote]

Honest answers and trutherism do no go well together. Thruthers make up answers that have no basis in reality. Like those explosive with no sound of blast wave taking down a building. Its pure fantasy.

edit on 28-2-2012 by -PLB- because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Reheat
If you're going to attempt to refute the experts who have investigated this issue, then extraordinary proof is required to do so..

Why would you require extraordinary proof to refute experts when science is the belief in the ignorance of experts?

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Ok. Im assuming youre excited about this and its your "thing".Youve way too much time on your hands over something few care about now...and will never be settled.

There was a second gunman who killed Kennedy too....it doesnt matter. Even if there was or wasnt.

This will be hashed, bashed and re-hashed over and over and people are just tired of hacking on about the subject.

False flag, black tag...tag youre it. Just like all the other "conspiracies". Put a few years between the event...and people just dont care so much anymore.

Even IF you are completely right? Folks....me too...for the most part...have moved on and dont care...because it doesnt matter. If you think it does.....?????

Irrefutable? So what? Its not like Im going to bed tonight saying "OH WOW! Finally! I can sleep!"

edit on 06-10-2010 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

You don't deserve to be a citizen in my country, if you are. This is absolute crap. You're saying that if the US government was found to be behind this in an effort to take yours and mine rights away, you wouldn't care? WOW!!!

I don't get giant pussies like you who are too afraid to stand up for their own rights against corruption. It's terrible that there are people with attitudes like yours. People like you are what allows people like Hitler and Mao and Lenin and Stalin to take power and walk all over people.

The only truth is that there is no law within a corrupt system, there is only a willingness to stand up for one's self and their fellow man, or a cowardice in the heart that prevents it.

Lie to yourself and say it doesn't matter. Go to sleep every night with your head in the sand like an ostrich, thinking that everything will be alright tomorrow. Luckily for people like you, there are people like me that will ensure that this kind of # doesn't go unchecked. Unfortunately for people like me, people like you make it much harder than it should have to be.

Good night, or like you may have to get used to saying with an attitude like yours, Guten Nacht

Jaden

reply to post by -PLB-


This will be my last post in this thread unless it refers to the topic of the OP.

I don't know how you can be taken seriously man. You seem like a smart guy but you seem to be right in tune like all the debunkers here with the "Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation" www.whale.to...

Lets start with a "jab" from the end of your first post--

All the rest is delusional nonsense.

I would take offense if I was the OP.. Next

You state:

you of course need to demonstrate that these exist, and of course demonstrate how it can be used to take down a building. Making up things just so you can keep believing in your fantasy is called a delusion.

Along with another personal attack you are using #14 of Twenty-Five Ways to Suppress the Truth Which is:

***14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely

and

***19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

Tossed in with another personal attack.--again how can you be taken seriously no matter how you craft your posts to sound like you are "just asking valid questions"

You have no desire for the truth, you guys dogpile on anyone who presents anything that can provoke critical thinking. I'm not saying everything posted here is right but how you guys swarm over this 9/11 forum is creepy.

Listen I'm not here to stick up for this guys story. I have been busy tonight and have not had a chance to dig through it but what I am sticking up for is him against you E-Thugs. I can name all of you by name and dont even have to look who posted what to know which one you posted. Same stuff over and over. If you want to have a debate keep it civil something most of you do not do.

In closing let me ask you this, What are your credentials to be asking these questions and if you have any should we believe you ? According to one of your fellow debunkers anyone can claim anything they want on the internet right ?

There is a particular company that I keep coming back to and always have done in relation to 911 that none of you have even bothered to mention.
Now put it this way, considering this is a conspiracy forum would lead many to believe that the way ATS works is this:-
A thread is created and posted for ATS members
The ATS members read the post and do some digging of their own
Then the ATS members share their own findings..???

Yet none of you have mentioned a company that I feel may be connected. Do you make connections or simply read what you are given?

This company is very significant indeed and i have done my own digging and it suprises me that no one has even mentioned it. It has a global connection.
I dont have 100% proof which is obvious, but if I was to give you the name would you dig? because this one company has its fingers in many pies.

reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys


You should look up what a personal attack is. I am not making any. If someone comes with delusional nonsense, and I point that out, it is in no way a personal attack. At most it is an inconvenient fact. Of course I can be wrong, but the normal course of action would be to show me wrong using arguments or showing evidence.

But instead you come with even more nonsense. I ask how the very basics of his theory would work, and you come with nonsense about how I demand a complete solution. No, I am asking the very basics, questions that make or break a theory.

He is literally making up stuff that is physically impossible according to known physics, and the stuff he makes up is required for his theory to work, and you complain about cherry picking. You know what, the spaghetti monster pushed those buildings down with his noodles. The spaghetti monster is as invisible as those explosives, makes as little sound, it just makes a low frequency rumble. And if you are going to ask me to demonstrate this spaghetti monster exist, you should know my answer: stop cherry picking and stop demanding a complete solution.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys


Dont get me wrong I have not read all your stuff yet, my opinion on what you posted is up for grabs.

How can you know that the questions asked of labtop and the criricisms made are invalid if you haven't even bothered to read his posts?

There were another group of seismic sensors much closer than the ones at Columbia University 20 miles
away

Company called PROTEC which monitors construction/demolition sites to insure complaince with environmental
regulations and liability claims

They emplace seismic sensors at the site to measure any vibrations from blasting or construction activity

Here is article from IMPLOSION WORLD - the journal of demolition contractors. Yes the same people who
"controlled demolition" building for a living. Presumably know something what a controlled demolition looks
like and what type of seismic pattern it leaves

www.jod911.com...

reply to post by LaBTop


LaBTop, you asked me for a source for the 2 second tolerance either way of travel time of seismic waves from WTC to the Palisades seismic station. You will see it referenced in this report :-

911research.wtc7.net...

The meat of it in relation to our discussion is this : "Origin times with an uncertainty of 2 s were calculated from the arrival times of Rg waves at PAL using a velocity of 2 Km/s." So the experts are saying that a travel time of 17 seconds for seismic waves from WTC to Palisades might well have been 15 seconds or 19 seconds.

When you couple this 2 second plus or minus with uncertainty as to exactly when the collapse of WTC 7 was initiated, because it was out of sight but obviously preceded the penthouse falling in , then I am afraid there is nothing left of your theory.

Isn't it much more likely to be the case that the low rumble you referred to at the beginning of the clip was in fact the internal, out of sight, initiation of the collapse ? With the Penthouse soon to follow.

The boom before the collapse of WTC7 is hard to refute. It is easily heard, though the boom (heard)
could have been unrelated to WTC7. However the symmetrical collapse of the roof line of building 7
indicates a global failure below...a catastrophic failure.

Bottom line....

BOOM is heard

Penthouse collapses (interior core columns break and fall away from supporting interior structure)

Global exterior collapse without expected resistance from friction (indicating
expected resistance from lower floor structures is non-existent for first 2.3 seconds)

Conclusion...

Most naive sheep will continue to graze and slumber under the watchful eye of their sheperd--
willfully, and happily ignorant...

Others that back the official account will continue to defend and ridicule, firm in their conviction that
only terrorists from abroad would "do such a thing" and requiring extraordinary "proof" to the
contrary

I will continue to believe the WTC7 collapse was controlled and executed by some means other
than what is posited by the official explanation of exterior damage and fire.