The Anti Christ

Originally posted by localparkflasher
What was i lying about? I'm not on the Yes or No side. I'm in the middle because of the FACT that i personally haven't shook Jesus' hand or had a conversation with him. That's me, not you. Maybe you did. Maybe you're one of Jesus' apostles sent to the future to prepare the world for his arrival in 2012. You can go ahead and read scriptures and testimonies all day. There has to be something more than the 3 things you listed.

Originally posted by colbe

reply to post by colbe

 

local, hi, to help you with your doubt,

What is the benefit to lying? It's against God it's non-Christian.

If you don't believe the eyewitness testimony of the first Christians who
knew Our Lord what of all the famous major miracles in the last 2000 years? They point to Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice for mankind.

Here, studied, tested over and over by Science, who can't explain ~ I give three examples.

1. the Shroud of Turin
2. the Tilma of Guadalupe
3. the Stigmata, the wounds of Christ Padre Pio bore on his person for
fifty years

edit on 1-3-2012 by localparkflasher because: I suck at posting

Who said anything about lying? You expressed disbelief in Jesus, it
was your word "made-up." The list are well known miracles.

colbe

No, they can't evaluate anything that supposedly existed thousands of years ago. Why? They CAN'T travel back in time to begin the evaluation process. Texts, books, testimonies or the word of a historian is NOT proof. End of conversation.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well then historians know nothing from history if you want to take that route. Do you not think historians, even secular ones, can evaluate the historicity of the crucifixion or whether Jesus lived or not?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by localparkflasher

 

I believe he is asking you why you think the gospel writers were "lying" about Jesus. Not you, lol.

Thanks, trying to help Local come to belief NOTurT.


colbe

Muhammad could very well be considered an anti-Christ.

Christ was crucified on the cross, Christians don't deny this, Romans don't deny this, Jews don't deny this.

Muhammad denies this. "According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified"

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore Muhammad is anti-Christ. Christ is God, He is the Savior, Islam denies this.

I've met a nice Muslim that showed me a nice Muslim tapestry with Jesus on it, it's not the same Jesus if he wasn't crucified, that's the problem, they downgrade him from God to simple messenger. Call Christianity anti-Muhammad, that's fine, because in Christianity Muhammad wasn't even a messenger of God, he is not mentioned as being anyone, probably because he began ministering 600+ years after Christ.

I express disbelief in anything that has no proof attached to it. There's been thousands of people claiming they're the Second Christ, satan or antichrist. Do you believe them? Alot of them are probably still alive. Their history/existance is alot more traceble than Jesus' history or his existance. Why don't you ask them to prove to you they're Christ? What IS the proof we're looking for? What can this person do to convince you that he's the Son of God? Is a simple claim enough for you personally? So many questions but you are definitely not the one asking them.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by colbe

reply to post by colbe

 

Who said anything about lying? You expressed disbelief in Jesus, it
was your word "made-up." The list are well known miracles.

colbe

Nobody knows whether any of these stories are actually true. Make a mental note of this please.

Originally posted by Razimus
Muhammad could very well be considered an anti-Christ.

Christ was crucified on the cross, Christians don't deny this, Romans don't deny this, Jews don't deny this.

Muhammad denies this. "According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified"

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore Muhammad is anti-Christ. Christ is God, He is the Savior, Islam denies this.

I've met a nice Muslim that showed me a nice Muslim tapestry with Jesus on it, it's not the same Jesus if he wasn't crucified, that's the problem, they downgrade him from God to simple messenger. Call Christianity anti-Muhammad, that's fine, because in Christianity Muhammad wasn't even a messenger of God, he is not mentioned as being anyone, probably because he began ministering 600+ years after Christ. [/q]

edit on 1-3-2012 by localparkflasher because: i make mistakes

Originally posted by localparkflasher
I express disbelief in anything that has no proof attached to it. There's been thousands of people claiming they're the Second Christ, satan or antichrist. Do you believe them? Alot of them are probably still alive. Their history/existance is alot more traceble than Jesus' history or his existance. Why don't you ask them to prove to you they're Christ? What IS the proof we're looking for? What can this person do to convince you that he's the Son of God? Is a simple claim enough for you personally? So many questions but you are definitely not the one asking them.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by colbe

reply to post by colbe

 

Who said anything about lying? You expressed disbelief in Jesus, it
was your word "made-up." The list are well known miracles.

colbe

I replied to your disbelief of Christ, I was trying to help you with that...

Notice what I underlined in my response.


Uhhh how about no. You don't actually know the truth. Nobody does. We don't have proof that Jesus was ever alive or the antichrist. They are most likely either made-up to show us the difference between bad and good or they are/were real people. My guess is they're made-up.

reply to post by localparkflasher

No, they can't evaluate anything that supposedly existed thousands of years ago. Why? They CAN'T travel back in time to begin the evaluation process. Texts, books, testimonies or the word of a historian is NOT proof. End of conversation.

Lol, in big kids debate you don't say things like "end of conversation", that's a fallacy. So if that is your argument then you must not believe anything from antiquity. Nothing at all from history correct?

reply to post by localparkflasher

Their history/existance is alot more traceble than Jesus' history or his existance.

You realize not even atheist or agnostic historians dare deny Christ lived, crucified, died, and that His followers all believed they saw a risen Christ. They reject the supernatural events of Christ's life, but none of them dare claim He never existed or died at the hands of Rome. They'd be the laughing stock of their profession. There is no person from antiquity that we have as much information on than we do for Jesus of Nazareth.

He's the most documented person to ever live.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


As far as I am aware there is not a scrap of credible evidence that 'jesus' was a real person!

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

As far as I am aware there is not a scrap of credible evidence that 'jesus' was a real person!

That certainly means you're not a professional historian! Which is alright, you don't have to be one, heck you don't even have to listen to what historians have to say. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no one is entitled to their own facts though, sorry.

Well we know that Mohammed's wealth came from collecting usury, or exorbitant loan sharking and he once commanded the slaughter of an village because a woman was their leader. Her limbs were tied to horses and she was drawn and quartered.

I was reading a document called "Secret of the Covenant" (supposedly written by NWO people) which mentioned something interesting. First, they said they need to get rid of Christians and Catholics. I thought that was strange since they rag on Muslims so much and appear to love the pope. Then they talked about bringing out their own version of the "anti-christ" which will be a flesh and blood man that they have trained and dedicated for this position. This person will be the one the people think is here to save them. It went on to say something like "Why would people want a spirit savior when they have one in the flesh right here". According to this document, this is their plan. As far as I'm concerned, if any MAN comes around claiming to be Jesus or God I will run the other way and wait on my spirit God They also said he will be set up in England.

Well a lot of good info here.

But i am still very confused.

And i hate to say it but it still looks as if islam and mohammad are in the wrong.

But i love the discussion and the way everybody has conducted them selves so fare.

Great job ATS i was kind of scared to start this thread but so far so good.

reply to post by grayghost


Why are Christians called Christians? Because they believe in Jesus Christ. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, you are not a christian. You are a anti-christian. But does that mean; if you dont believe in Jesus you can't believe in God?

No, not at all.

Jesus told us not to worship him. But to worship God.

Christians worship Jesus Christ because they state that Jesus is God in the flesh here on earth.
At the same time Christians state that Jesus is Gods only begotten son? While Jesus states that; We are all children of God. Jesus is including him self as well.

To me it seams like Christians/Christianity and Jesus are in a bit of a disagreement. I also agree, because Jesus's disciples hardly ever understood what Jesus was talking about or trying to say when he was teaching. But when Jesus dies they suddenly grasp everything?

Well its easy to assume that you have the write answers when the teacher is dead.

reply to post by spy66

Jesus told us not to worship him.

Really?? WHERE???

I can't think of a time in the Biblical accounts of His life where someone worshiped Christ and He rebuked them for doing it. Jesus accepted worship

Originally posted by yougetwhatyoudeserve
Christianity is a false religion, so Mohammed is not the anti christ. Perhaps you have been brainswashed with typical American anti Muslim propaganda (which spreaded like a cancer in the media and under the people after 9/11)

Besides there are so many claims made by religious and non-religious idiots about who could be the antichirst that I don't believe any of them....

Im wondering how many, ats users are actually muslim now, or even anything else other than white, insert any white nation here. Because theres one thing being tolerant of each other but if christianity is fake, so is any jewish or islamic crap, just because they make funny noises and kill themselves for it does not make it real. The oldest traces of idolization of gods is annunkai not some arab or jew.

reply to post by Azadok

Hi Azadok

You apparently do NOT know what a Qal Imperfect tense is in paleoHebrew in Gen 1:1-2

"Bere#h Elohim bara haShamayim vehaaretz...etc." is IMPERFECT ('when ELOHIM was creating") and not the PERFECT tense (i.e. "ELOHIM created")

For you wrote:

QUOTE

"...Read what I wrote , Gen.1:1 : 'and on the first day God created the heavens and the earth...'

There was no date given this took place million if not billions of years ago -

Genesis 1:2 'and the earth became void and without form...'

in other words it was destroyed , this has nothing to do with the heavens - just the earth was destroyed for the rebellion of Satan..."

UNQUOTE

A better translation into modern English from the paleoHebrew (you know, the consonants you cannot read) would be:

"In the beginning when ELOHIM went about creating (bara) the heavens and the earth, the earth was formless and empty (tohu wa-bohu) and there was darkness over the face[s] of the Primordial-Deep, and the Wind of ELOHIM brooded [i.e. like a dove] over the face[s] of the waters [of creation]."

This has NO THING whatsoever to do with two separate Creations - and a fall of Satan in between - since the imperfect tense (bara - to create from zero) makes this opening run on sentence in the Hebrew scriptures (one of the longest run-on sentences in the history of the English language when translated out of its mother tongue although it works alright in its original paleo Hebrew style...)

The 2nd Creation Myth of the Jews in their supposedly ancient Torah (Genesis 2:4b to Genesis 4:26) uses a different name for the creator god (in the 2nd Creation Myth, ELOHIM ('gods')no longer appears as the god but rather YHWH-Elohim ('the clan god YHWH'), along with the 2nd Creation Myth's peculiar language ('yatzar' for 'form from clay' rather than 'bara' = 'was creating, was making from zero') and order of creation, where Adam is singular in the 2nd myth and created first from the mud, then the animals, then Chav vah (or Chayyah = aka Eve) from his 'side' by YHWH-Elohim (again from pre-existing material, not created 'from scratch' as in the 1st myth).

The fact that Genesis 5:1-2 contains the myth of the 1st Creation Myth (magically reappearing as a result of Ezra's rather heavy handed post-exilic textual editing in c. 420 BCE) language "in the Day when ELOHIM created Man, male and female created he them, and he blessed them and he called THEIR name (pl.) Adam."

So according to the 1st creation myth (Genesis 1:1 to 2:4a and starting again in Gen 5:1-2 etc.) Adam is plural ('and he called THEIR name ADAM in the day in which they were created') and thus there is NO CHAYYAH (or Chav vah = Eve 'formed' from any side of Adam) in the 1st Creation Myth's author's Weltanschauung.

For you to imagine that there was some magical RE-creation out of BARA ('when he was creating') you are doing gross violence to a mangled paleoHebrew text you cannot even read.

How dare you !!

reply to post by spy66


Hello , and i understand what you are saying.

To tell you the truth i can not be sure that all the holy text are correct.

And buy holy text i mean all of them not just the bible.

They all have been touched by the hand of man.

As fare as i know religion in it's self could be the anti Christ.

It has caused a lot of death and destruction.

I don't under stand the whole free will thing either.

I mean why does god give us free will and then not give

us the wisdom to use it justly.Then if we screw up he's gona cunk us

down to hell.It just doesn't seam right. After all we are using the the brain

he gave us. . .

Originally posted by grayghost
reply to post by spy66

 

Hello , and i understand what you are saying.

To tell you the truth i can not be sure that all the holy text are correct.

And buy holy text i mean all of them not just the bible.

They all have been touched by the hand of man.

As fare as i know religion in it's self could be the anti Christ.

It has caused a lot of death and destruction.

I don't under stand the whole free will thing either.

I mean why does god give us free will and then not give

us the wisdom to use it justly.Then if we screw up he's gona cunk us

down to hell.It just doesn't seam right. After all we are using the the brain

he gave us. . .

I have asked that same question and the realization i got was that we come into this world picking up from where the last one left off...on a very predetermined path... and for some, it is a path of light (truth) and for others it the path of darkness (lie)

Those on a path of darkness can change there path by turning to the light. This could be influenced by others who are on the path of light. this is why spirits of light were trapped into this dark world with the spirits of darkness... to answer a cry of suffering and to teach. Can it be changed, can these paths really be changed... only God knows that answer and will reveal it to us in time, but you're right... the faulty brain is not really at fault.

To find where one stands in the eyes of God, he must look at the path he is on.